Waivers: who gets claimed?

[higgyfan]

8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Juolevi isn’t making the nhl his year?mm. And dahlen also is next in line with some injuries likely hitting us this year. Hopefully Hughes can graduate early this year too. You still think we’re top 5 after that. With a 2014 draft pick leading the way??

Another top 5 pick next draft will help replenish the stock.  Maybe we finally see some extra picks for Sutter and Edler too.

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Another top 5 pick next draft will help replenish the stock.  Maybe we finally see some extra picks for Sutter and Edler too.

Doubtful, they need Sutter and Edler doesn't want to go anywhere

[higgyfan]

25 minutes ago, stawns said:

Doubtful, they need Sutter and Edler doesn't want to go anywhere

Who knows?   Maybe Gaudette is good enough to replace Sutter by the TDL and Edler might waive at TDL and then return to the Canucks the following year.  WIshful thinking yeah, but not impossible.

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, shiznak said:

Nonetheless, that wasn't the initial argument. The argument was you think Virtanen will get claimed on waivers, while Goldobin will be left unclaimed. You haven't provide any reasons to validate why so, rather saying Virtanen has shown some glimpse of what he can be.

Sure I did. Virtanen's a more established NHL player with a legit NHL floor and ability to play bottom 6 should he not reach a middle or top 6 ceiling. Goldy has not accomplished any of that yet and is a top 6 or bust player and FAR riskier for a team to claim on waivers and would need to keep on their NHL roster.

 

And as I've been arguing the entire time, the premise of 'Goldy will get claimed' is based on the false assumption that he comes in, plays well and we still waive him. That's simply not going to happen. So people can just stop fretting over it.

 

The ONLY WAY HE GOES ON WAIVERS is if he comes in and completely craps the bed. Like Trainspotting levels of craps the bed. IF THAT HAPPENS at this point (which is unlikely IMO), I'm not remotely worried about putting him on, or losing him to, waivers.

[canuckpuckluck1]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sure I did. Virtanen's a more established NHL player with a legit NHL floor and ability to play bottom 6 should he not reach a middle or top 6 ceiling. Goldy has not accomplished any of that yet and is a top 6 or bust player and FAR riskier for a team to claim on waivers and would need to keep on their NHL roster.

 

And as I've been arguing the entire time, the premise of 'Goldy will get claimed' is based on the false assumption that he comes in, plays well and we still waive him. That's simply not going to happen. So people can just stop fretting over it.

 

The ONLY WAY HE GOES ON WAIVERS is if he comes in and completely craps the bed. Like Trainspotting levels of craps the bed. IF THAT HAPPENS at this point (which is unlikely IMO), I'm not remotely worried about putting him on, or losing him to, waivers.

I agree with you on Goldobin, if he gets waived he is just not an NHL player. The kid can play but if his game is not complete enough to make it on our team then good luck to who ever claims him and enjoy fitting him into your squad. Its my personal opinion that Virtanen is already an NHL player on any team in this league...not a complete player but one that with continued coaching will be a player for a long time. I have no idea how good or effective but he has very impressive potential to be a game changer...

As a fan he excites me very much.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Who knows?   Maybe Gaudette is good enough to replace Sutter by the TDL and Edler might waive at TDL and then return to the Canucks the following year.  WIshful thinking yeah, but not impossible.

Do you honestly believe Gaudette can go up against Ovie, Wheeler, Benn etc etc every night, every shift by the tdl?  I think he's got at least a year in Utica ahead of him, maybe more.......if he makes it at all 

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Paranoid personality disorder. The world isn’t out to get you. Not everything revolves how being pro/anti canucks.  Like talking about how a ranking system is flawed for example. The reason you can’t have a logical discussion is your too trigger happy, anything not immediately seen as praise is considered hate and anti canucks. Very political left of you. #walkaway 

Again, I was wrong to try and have a logical discussion with you.   I don’t know what order you have but keep naming them and I am sure one of them will be correct.    Good luck with it.   

[kingofsurrey]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

Do you honestly believe Gaudette can go up against Ovie, Wheeler, Benn etc etc every night, every shift by the tdl?  I think he's got at least a year in Utica ahead of him, maybe more.......if he makes it at all 

Canucks in fact have no one capable of what you are asking for.  Losing with old vets or lose with youth.....  24th overall or  30th ?  

These are the hard decisions..

[smithers joe]

one more draft and we should have replacements for all our placeholders. we just have to wait for the cream to rise.

[oldnews]

nvmd.

 

[Boudrias]

21 minutes ago, stawns said:

Do you honestly believe Gaudette can go up against Ovie, Wheeler, Benn etc etc every night, every shift by the tdl?  I think he's got at least a year in Utica ahead of him, maybe more.......if he makes it at all 

Unfortunately the odds are with you. Sutter is seriously under rated here on CDC. I prefer that almost all young players spend some time in the AHL. I doubt Gaudette will be different. That all said there is usually a surprise or two coming out of camp. Maybe he will be one. 

[Alflives]

17 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

one more draft and we should have replacements for all our placeholders. we just have to wait for the cream to rise.

Totally agree @smithers joe.  I don’t worry about losing guys to waivers.  If it happens, that means we have (likely) a young guy earning that spot, who is a better player.  Doesn’t it mean our team is getting better too?

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

Unfortunately the odds are with you. Sutter is seriously under rated here on CDC. I prefer that almost all young players spend some time in the AHL. I doubt Gaudette will be different. That all said there is usually a surprise or two coming out of camp. Maybe he will be one. 

Yeah - I think it's pretty much a no-brainer that regardless of Gaudette's progress, his rookie season should not be spent in a principal shutdown role.

I think Gaudette looked very good in his 5 game audition last year - and he could very well prove ready to make the team in a few months - however, he'd still be an NHL rookie and not one you necessarily want to be launching into the most difficult roles in the NHL - matching up against the league's most prolific threats.

 

That's why this team signs placeholders.  To take the brunt of this transition. 

And there are few better options in the league than a guy like Beagle - who's a proven, top notch shutdown center - one that the young defensive forwards on this team will benefit from playing with imo.  And of course the additional benefit is the potential gain that a strengthened bottom six can provide in terms of opportunities for a very young top 6 group.

 

I'd be surprised that there are so many people who whiff on the obvious, including no shortage of pseudo-analysts - but signing a guy like Beagle is a literal no-brainer.

And, where Gaudette is specifically concerned, there remains a center spot that is effectively up for grabs between players like Granlund, perhaps Schaller, and himself - so whether he's in the AHL to start, or on the wing in the NHL, or even in that 4th C spot that is somwehat undefined at this point (and would involve less difficult minutes with Sutter and Beagle here), there is no shortage of possibilities for Gaudette, depending on the extent to which he forces (or not) his way onto the roster.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Another top 5 pick next draft will help replenish the stock.  Maybe we finally see some extra picks for Sutter and Edler too.

That’s true but then again if we luckily land Jack Hughes he’ll make an immediate jump into the nhl and no longer be counted as a prospect. Which only further proves my point about the flaws in those rankings and why they should be based on age not their definition of “prospect status”. Ranking all teams best players under 25 whether the play in the nhl or not would give a much clearer example of a teams future promise. I think canucks would still be a top 10 even a top 5 team if put that rankings together

[Nuxfanabroad]

One matter we should caution against, is a 'false-surge' from some of our youth. It might happen with the Devs this yr, for example.

 

When a team climbs the standings quickly(surprising experts/opponents), we often see them fall back in subsequent seasons. I'm uncertain of all the variables at play, but it likely happens in every sport under the sun.

 

These kids are all competitive winners, from an early age..likely unfamiliar with patient progress. Moves like having QH spend one more yr in College, indicate ownership/hierarchy being about as patient as we can be. The UFA signings & not running with excess youth, are all further indications of accepting a more gradual, sustainable climb.

[Gaudette Celly]

31 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'd be surprised that there are so many people who whiff on the obvious, including no shortage of pseudo-analysts - but signing a guy like Beagle is a literal no-brainer.

And, where Gaudette is specifically concerned, there remains a center spot that is effectively up for grabs between players like Granlund, perhaps Schaller, and himself - so whether he's in the AHL to start, or on the wing in the NHL, or even in that 4th C spot that is somwehat undefined at this point (and would involve less difficult minutes with Sutter and Beagle here), there is no shortage of possibilities for Gaudette, depending on the extent to which he forces (or not) his way onto the roster.

I don't see any scenario where Gaudette is not on the team this season, worst-case by the new year if there are roster/waivers issues.  In only 5 games he arguably showed more at both ends of the rink, at least in very-near potential, than Gagner already.  It's been said many times by the team how much younger they will be, and they don't mean by simply removing two 37-year-olds.  Pettersson is an absolute lock for opening night, Gaudette a near-certainty, and Juolevi will at some point in the year if not out of camp.  Dahlen will be near the top of the call-up list, perhaps earning a permanent spot as well before the season is out.  Goldobin is the wildcard in all this. 

 

The corner has been turned -- the new core and youth now run this team as primary producers.

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

One matter we should caution against, is a 'false-surge' from some of our youth. It might happen with the Devs this yr, for example.

 

When a team climbs the standings quickly(surprising experts/opponents), we often see them fall back in subsequent seasons. I'm uncertain of all the variables at play, but it likely happens in every sport under the sun.

 

These kids are all competitive winners, from an early age..likely unfamiliar with patient progress. Moves like having QH spend one more yr in College, indicate ownership/hierarchy being about as patient as we can be. The UFA signings & not running with excess youth, are all further indications of accepting a more gradual, sustainable climb.

I agree - you make a good point imo..  And it applies to individuals as well as teams, to fitness as well as performance.

 

"Easier to attain than to sustain."

 

I think the metered, gradual approach this team took (in large part by necessity/context) doesn't necessarily 'set back' or delay a team any more than the tankdown/teardown approach that so many people want to see (largely based on perceived advantage of draft position).  When you look at it as a whole however, I'm not convinced the measured/metered/gradual approach is at any real disadvantage - in the longer run it could actually be advantageous.

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I agree - you make a good point imo..  And it applies to individuals as well as teams, to fitness as well as performance.

 

"Easier to attain than to sustain."

 

I think the metered, gradual approach this team took (in large part by necessity/context) doesn't necessarily 'set back' or delay a team any more than the tankdown/teardown approach that so many people want to see (largely based on perceived advantage of draft position).  When you look at it as a whole however, I'm not convinced the measured/metered/gradual approach is at any real disadvantage - in the longer run it could actually be advantageous.

 

Also interesting to ponder within the parameters of the cap-paradigm. Finally got the books in order. Have said the last couple yrs(diff posts) JB's holding things back like a dam on a mighty river.

 

OJ, EP & now QH...we've held back 3 yrs of 1st R, likely very talented, ELC-contributors. Probably in 2019-20, this teams gonna burst through, to CDC's delight.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Canucks in fact have no one capable of what you are asking for.  Losing with old vets or lose with youth.....  24th overall or  30th ?  

These are the hard decisions..

 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Canucks in fact have no one capable of what you are asking for.

Perhaps you need to have a look at the current roster; specifically those pictured above.