The TDL Benning Complaint Thread Department

[kanucks25]

11 hours ago, Baggins said:

Nor does it mean he could. Without being a part of the trade talks it's pure speculation. Which was my point. You simply choose to believe he could without a shred of evidence.

The evidence is that we know for a fact that Benning's plan from the start was the "age-gap re-tool" and not the "scorched-earth rebuild".

 

That's how we know he targeted players like Sbisa and Bonino over a package of prospects and picks.

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

First of all we gave a (higher) third back.

 

2nd of all, "just entering a prime D-man" ????????????????????????

 

???????????????

 

SBISA????????????

A very good return, when there was only one team to do a trade with.

[kanucks25]

12 hours ago, BlastPast said:

Re: the Kesler trade , taking Kesler off the roster left a hole at centre that had to be filled with a player. The roster JB inherited had Jeremy Welsh play like 20 games. Think about that for a minute, and that's not to mention some other lower quality forwards that played that season.  You have to ice a team and those players have to come from somewhere.  There was no one in the org. that could step in and the UFA crop at C that year was terrible so there weren't any real options there either. It's almost as if some people don't even consider the roster before judging certain moves.

You can find players through free-agency or other teams' bad contracts.

 

I mean, he gave up assets for Brandon Sutter in the same summer he let go of Brad Richardson. In the 4 years since, Sutter has produced at a 32p / 82gp pace for us while Richardson has produced 28p / 82gp for Arizona. Not to mention Richardson has been injured a lot less, and never got time with the Sedins. So what was the point in the end?

[-DLC-]

20 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

You can find players through free-agency or other teams' bad contracts.

 

I mean, he gave up assets for Brandon Sutter in the same summer he let go of Brad Richardson. In the 4 years since, Sutter has produced at a 32p / 82gp pace for us while Richardson has produced 28p / 82gp for Arizona. Not to mention Richardson has been injured a lot less, and never got time with the Sedins. So what was the point in the end?

See the thing is, you have the luxury of hindsight on your side...GM's in the moment don't.  Richardson was 30 when he left...that's starting to edge toward "old" in the NHL.  Richardson got a whopping 3 goals and was a -24 last year with his 15 points.  Were you upset then?   Don't let that 4 goal game  against a prospect goaltender just breaking in convince you on its own.  

[189lb enforcers?]

13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

You can find players through free-agency or other teams' bad contracts.

 

I mean, he gave up assets for Brandon Sutter in the same summer he let go of Brad Richardson. In the 4 years since, Sutter has produced at a 32p / 82gp pace for us while Richardson has produced 28p / 82gp for Arizona. Not to mention Richardson has been injured a lot less, and never got time with the Sedins. So what was the point in the end?

 

Quite the outlier stat 

[189lb enforcers?]

Just now, debluvscanucks said:

See the thing is, you have the luxury of hindsight on your side...GM's in the moment don't.  Richardson was 30 when he left...that's starting to edge toward "old" in the NHL.  Richardson got a whopping 3 goals and was a -24 last year with his 15 points.  Were you upset then?   Don't let that 4 goal game convince you on its own. 

Some call it hindsight on here, no matter if it’s their or yours, as if to minimize the original thought. 

Ya, it was hindsight that we should not have picked OJ over MT, etc. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

20 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Don't forget anaheim had two firsts that year, I remember expecting and hoping for the 10th overall not the 24th.

No, you’re thinking of the Guddy trade lol

Throwing good picks around

 

At least most on here have come around to the idea that “Jim Benning is a genius” isn’t really an old pledge of allegiance thread that holds water. 

 

There is more discussion tolerated on the guy and his ‘plan’ today than there was a few years back. I can personally attest to this. The discussion is largely respectable  in tone and labelling these days. 

 

You hater troll, bad-fan, closet Leaf bastard, etc. 

[-DLC-]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Some call it hindsight on here, no matter if it’s their or yours, as if to minimize the original thought. 

Ya, it was hindsight that we should not have picked OJ over MT, etc. 

 

Just making a point that it's easy to "assess" things after the fact...GM's have to make moves based on what they feel is right at the time.  Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. 

 

Were you calling for us to pick Petey?  Bet you weren't.  If we're going to do this, include him in the mix because most were screaming about that pick.  So sometimes it works out better than planned (too).  Let's keep that one in the equation if we're doing the hindsight deal.

[BlastPast]

22 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

You can find players through free-agency or other teams' bad contracts.

 

I mean, he gave up assets for Brandon Sutter in the same summer he let go of Brad Richardson. In the 4 years since, Sutter has produced at a 32p / 82gp pace for us while Richardson has produced 28p / 82gp for Arizona. Not to mention Richardson has been injured a lot less, and never got time with the Sedins. So what was the point in the end?

Agree that Sutter and Richardson are similar-ish quality players (I would give an an edge to Sutter, personally) but I'm talking the time of the Kesler trade. Factoring injuries in your opinion is using hindsight which  , as everyone knows, is  always 20/20. 

[-DLC-]

1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

No, you’re thinking of the Guddy trade lol

Throwing good picks around

 

At least most on here have come around to the idea that “Jim Benning is a genius” isn’t really an old pledge of allegiance thread that holds water. 

 

There is more discussion tolerated on the guy and his ‘plan’ today than there was a few years back. I can personally attest to this. The discussion is largely respectable  in tone and labelling these days. 

 

You hater troll, bad-fan, closet Leaf bastard, etc. 

Thing is, when does it end?  It's been a string of "AV, GILLES, WILLIE, NONIS" and it generally follows losing streaks.    Maybe instead of calling for heads of professionals put into place for a reason, we should understand that it isn't a gig without failures and successes.   I hear the word homer more than I do troll/hater.    "More discussion tolerated"?   Probably that's for a reason...because those who have slammed him from day one are learning, over time, that it's not as easy as it looks.

 

It's a discussion board and this is what it's for...however, I hate constant negative at the drop of a hat and as we start to falter.  Ride it out.  Don't call for rash, abrupt responses to everyday occurences.  Teams go on winning and losing streaks...some here called for Marky's head for a long time.     Hmmm.

 

[kanucks25]

31 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

 

Quite the outlier stat 

How is it an outlier?

[189lb enforcers?]

22 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Just making a point that it's easy to "assess" things after the fact...GM's have to make moves based on what they feel is right at the time.  Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. 

 

Were you calling for us to pick Petey?  Bet you weren't.  If we're going to do this, include him in the mix because most were screaming about that pick.  So sometimes it works out better than planned (too).  Let's keep that one in the equation if we're doing the hindsight deal.

I know what your point was and you know what mine was as well.

As for EP, meh, I didn’t like anything in the range he was drafted in anymore than he was, and I was not following him other than his WJ stuff. I did not have a guy that draft, so I have no dog in that fight. I would have not picked QH, though, FTR. 

[189lb enforcers?]

10 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

How is it an outlier?

I’d never looked at the Richardson loss that way.

It’s a stat that I wasn’t expecting to ever see, or that it’s be as interesting. 

 

Who knew they’d have such comparable stats in that column. Not JB, you can be sure of that!  Mr Ballz is a foundational player. 

[189lb enforcers?]

20 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Nah, 2014.  Ducks took Ritchie 10th oa, we took mccann 24th via ducks

 

So Kesler for Pearson and Sutter is what we are left with now unless I'm missing something?  Ya really helping the rebuild along eh..

 

And it's funny now that our two best trade chips Edler and Tanev are the two guys still kicking around from the Gillis era.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was joking. 

The prime assets they gave up to get Guddy was crippling, but I understood the need to get a big, rugged Dman, just not at that price. Right at the start of the rebuild yet. 

 

The Kesler trade sucked. What’s worse is that it didn’t work out in the end for us. 

 

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

The evidence is that we know for a fact that Benning's plan from the start was the "age-gap re-tool" and not the "scorched-earth rebuild".

 

That's how we know he targeted players like Sbisa and Bonino over a package of prospects and picks.

What was the negative impact from that, though?  

 

I get it... Sbisa/Bonino (Sutter) hasn’t lit the world on fire.. but how much further ahead are we with Nick Ritchie or Perlini or Fiala or (other draft pick taken with Anaheim’s higher pick) or if we had targeted, say, Emerson Etem as a return like some people wanted.

 

Kesler held the hammer and tied our hands.. could we have pried Lindholm (former 6OA) out of there?  

 

At a certain point it gets ridiculous trying to rehash these decisions from 5 years ago... especially with 20/20 hindsight.

[kanucks25]

43 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’d never looked at the Richardson loss that way.

It’s a stat that I wasn’t expecting to ever see, or that it’s be as interesting. 

 

Who knew they’d have such comparable stats in that column. Not JB, you can be sure of that!  Mr Ballz is a foundational player. 

It's just an example of the holes in the Benning argument that we needed to add veterans to insulate the kids from a losing environment.

 

First, that backfired totally because we've been a bottom-feeder almost the entire time.

 

Second, you don't have to give up assets for those types of players. You can find them in free agency, or acquire them for nothing from other teams if they're trying to get rid of contracts, or even keep the ones in your own system.

 

He let Richardson walk for nothing as I stated, and that same summer he let Matthias walk for nothing as well after he had a decent year for us. I know Matthias is out of the league now but he was still a hardworking vet that produced like a 3rd liner for us. These players could have been retained if need be to fill holes and flip later for picks at the deadline or something.

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

Thing is, when does it end?  It's been a string of "AV, GILLES, WILLIE, NONIS" and it generally follows losing streaks.    Maybe instead of calling for heads of professionals put into place for a reason, we should understand that it isn't a gig without failures and successes.   I hear the word homer more than I do troll/hater.    "More discussion tolerated"?   Probably that's for a reason...because those who have slammed him from day one are learning, over time, that it's not as easy as it looks.

 

It's a discussion board and this is what it's for...however, I hate constant negative at the drop of a hat and as we start to falter.  Ride it out.  Don't call for rash, abrupt responses to everyday occurences.  Teams go on winning and losing streaks...some here called for Marky's head for a long time.     Hmmm.

 

Thing is, feel free to disagree. 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

It's just an example of the holes in the Benning argument that we needed to add veterans to insulate the kids from a losing environment.

 

First, that backfired totally because we've been a bottom-feeder almost the entire time.

 

Second, you don't have to give up assets for those types of players. He let Richardson walk for nothing as I stated, and that same summer he let Matthias walk for nothing as well after he had a decent year for us. I know Matthias is out of the league now but he was still a hardworking vet that produced like a 3rd liner for us. These players could have been retained if need be to fill holes and flip later for picks at the deadline or something.

I think JB’s philosophy changed at the 2017 TDL, when he moved Burr and Hansen.  Didn’t he start signing more cheaper UFAs as placeholders after that?  I think he believed up to that 2017 deadline, that he could retool, and not have to suffer the pain of a full rebuild.  

[J-Dizzle]

14 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

It's just an example of the holes in the Benning argument that we needed to add veterans to insulate the kids from a losing environment.

 

First, that backfired totally because we've been a bottom-feeder almost the entire time.

 

Second, you don't have to give up assets for those types of players. You can find them in free agency, or acquire them for nothing from other teams if they're trying to get rid of contracts, or even keep the ones in your own system.

 

He let Richardson walk for nothing as I stated, and that same summer he let Matthias walk for nothing as well after he had a decent year for us. I know Matthias is out of the league now but he was still a hardworking vet that produced like a 3rd liner for us. These players could have been retained if need be to fill holes and flip later for picks at the deadline or something.

It’s funny how these types of posts were non existent for the majority of the year.... and then when injuries start piling up and the team struggled ‘the world is ending, Benning is Satan’ posts start showing up again.  

 

If if we miss the playoffs next year I’ll be a little concerned.  As of now the team is slightly further ahead than I expected them to be at this point in the year. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Benning didn't have a 2 team restriction, he had a 2 team request. If Benning wanted to play hardball, he could have. Kesler didn't have the "right" to get out of town, Benning granted it.

so yeah, no: https://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/good-ridance-to-canucks-ryan-kesler-and-his-me-first-attitude

 

But but Benning coulda... shoulda..... 

 

Hardball? do you understand what it would have done to the room to bring Kesler back after he and his agent demanded out? and made it difficult? 

 

You seem to like the create revisions of things in your head and proceed to argue about it.