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[Proposal] Signaling the rebuild is complete


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Well, this idea all started with, thinking how close we are to filling in the major holes in our roster, and moving up the standings. It also came from Bennings claim that we will need some older players to help us win, as we climb, and it also came from my liking what Rousell brought this year...…...so basically I was day dreaming...….

 

But what came out of it was, that we may not be drafting so low, for quite some time...…………...let us now pray! :picard:

 

Now, as I have been reading up on these draft prospects, it became very clear that we will be able to draft a very good player...…..who is not important to my post

 

But what it also so did as I looked at prospects, was look at our team, and how it enters the future...…...it is important to explain the process, as at the end, it is how I came up with my idea...

 

So, we all know, we need a 1st line LWer, a 2nd line RWer, and 1st-pairing RHD....we need them now, and we need them in the future...…...I don't think anyone is arguing that....

 

This is where I get to my point...….we have so many tweeners....Baertschi, Granlund, Schaller, Sutter, Motte, Spooner, Leivo and Goldobin, we also have Hutton who is getting squeezed, 

with the addition of Hughes...……...all are decent players, but none are 2nd line or 1st Pairing Dmen

 

I think you can also add to this list, Virtanen, who is of higher value, but replaceable...……..love the potential, but getting tired of it not happening...…...like most, I am sure! Jake is a year away from being a 21/2 million dollar player, if he isn't there now.....I mean Beagle and Rousell are, so Virtanen has to be there also...…???????? I think he is replaceable, and players like Brett Connelly and Brandon Tanev, would do a similar job...….albeit no upside, no potential growth that Virtanen offers...…..

 

So, looking at the picks, just past the Canucks #10 OA......there is still more than a handful of prospects that offer, what we do not have...…..

 

I suggest we go after Florida's 1st, which is 13th OA...…….there are 2 RHD could possibly be available at that spot...…...Soderstrom, and Seider, if they are not available, then someone has gone off the board, which means that a forward like Boldy, or Krebs, may be available...…...…….point being that all 4 are still very prospects, and loaded with potential...…..now some may claim that Virtanen is that guy...…......and I ask is he? Is he going to become that power forward? 

 

Now, I am not suggesting, that Virtanen is the only way to get that pick, but it is a good pick to grab...……….Connelly and Tanev are both 26, and low cost players, could they do the same job.

Could we reshuffle and go after one of those prospects mentioned at 13 OA?

 

What would it take? What would you pay for a chance at the 13th pick? Taking 2 more high end prospects would pretty much conclude urgent rebuild, and slow down the demand...…….

 

I my opinion, it would signal and pretty much conclude the re-build. Would you trade Virtanen for that pick? I am just thinking with all those other tweeners, we could move some, and have a very good draft, with tons of potential prospects

 

Would Florida go for something else, if offered?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think people will get hung up on the definition of rebuild...

 

I think we have moved into a phase where we have to focus on getting better rather than just drafting and passively seeing how things pan out.

 

The “be patient, and just keep drafting high picks is just a losers game.”  You literally can’t progress if you are just in a cycle where one top guy gets drafted at the same time another one rolls off his ELC and moves closer to being a UFA.  It is just a revolving door and praying for a generational talent to fall in your lap.

 

We have some very good pieces now, and we have to absolutely focus on making the playoffs and even maybe winning a round in the next two years.  We need to have success under our belt and a good feeling about our ability the contend BEFORE having to sign Petterson to his next contract.  He isn’t going to want to commit long term to a crappy team unless we overpay.  Then it will be signing Hughes and Horvat to their next contracts.  We want to be in a position where they want to stay and even take a little less to be on a winner... like how Gillis was able to get us good contracts when players knew this was a great chance to win the Cup.

 

We need to sign a UFA or two, make a significant trade to shore us up... and be in the playoffs next year.  Our kids get older really fast nowadays and you don’t want to waste several years of their prime being patient.

 

It doesn’t mean trading away all our picks for veterans on expiring contracts...  it it does mean being bold and aggressive.

Edited by Provost
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I'm a bit confused on your evaluation of Jake. 

You call him a $2.5m calibre player, lump him into a grinder pedigree, aren't willing to wait for him to develop into a $5m PWF, but believe he's still worth a top 15 pick. A pick that has considerable bust potential. A pick you're willing to wait and see on.

 

You know the "power forwards take longer to develop" line, same goes for the Dmen you'd be inclined to take at 13. 

 

I'd say there's a far greater chance Jake realizes his potential than either of the two Dmen you propose fulfill the "top pairing dman" expectation and even if they do, it's like 3-5yrs away. Right around the time Jake is destroying everyone in his path.

 

Guess I'm a no.

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The rebuild is never ever over

 

That's how Gillis painted us into this corner by forgetting his most important duty.  The future.

 

It's like a player who thinks he's arrived.  When he thinks that, he's doomed to mediocrity .

 

Continuous improvement.  That's the way the Sedin's rolled.  That's in Horvat's DNA.  Crosby's, Pettersson's......every top player

 

 

Edited by Crabcakes
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Good points all...….appreciate you not grilling me...….

 

Here is why...…...

 

I am not saying he is exactly lumped into the other group and I understand PWF needs time to develop...…..and I seen progression with Jake, however 

where I seen the progression this year was in his positioning and defense...…...not his offense......still shooting for the top corner that gets wrung around the boards every time

There is NO high IQ in him, and if anyone says so...…..man, they better show it to me....cause I am not seeing it, sorry!

 

Florida is in a different spot and further ahead, they need a goalie and they need what Jake brings. Jake has some great qualities, but we are waiting for him to be something he is not.

 

I am not sure Jake is worth a 13 OA by himself, but I think properly package, could bring that in...……...you guys know me by now.....all about the discussion and debate....I don't mind being proven wrong....but that is my take on Jake. If he stays......I am good with it, but he is not going to bring everything we want....IMO

 

As for the Picks...……...as Jim said, and as I think, I look down the road at what they will be...……..Jake will be more, just not enough, but the picks...……….

 

2019 10th OA...………….imagine Krebs.C/LW 

2019 13th OA...………….imagine Seider RHD

 

This league is about 3 things

 

!st round picks, early 2nd round picks, and getting lucky with the rest...…………..30 other teams passed on Gaudette, from the last time the Canucks picked, that is luck! And we had already passed on him ourselves.

 

But there is a heck of a lot less luck needed in the first round...……...

 

The question I have is...……...can we replace the today Jake, with a UFA at the same cost? If the answer is yes, then move him, if no, then don't...……….

But each team is at a different developmental place, with different needs

 

Admittedly, I am souring on Jake a little...……….

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

The rebuild is never ever over

 

It's like a player who thinks he's arrived.  When he thinks that, he's doomed to mediocrity .

 

Continuous improvement.  That's the way the Sedin's rolled.  That's in Horvat's DNA.  Crosby's, Pettersson's......every top player

I agree totally on the rebuild...….

 

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41 minutes ago, Canckelhead said:

Haven't even made the playoff's but the rebuild is complete... hahaha  you ppl are laughable :wacko:

What we are today, is not what we will be tomorrow...….

The reason I said what I said, was that Benning had said he will be looking to upgrade LW/RW/RHD or things to that effect this summer

So, I see if those holes are filled in, we can start competing for a playoff spot, and as we grow and mature, we move higher.

I believe we generally have the young pieces for that (including the picks we have this year)

And as Crabcakes has correctly stated, a re-build is never done

you take this too literal 

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1 hour ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

The problem when you start seeing individual success think Horvat, Pettersson, even Hughes over a few games is the thought process in the market changing to the " 650 The Playbook " mindset haha. No the Canucks are not close to concluding a rebuild, they have only now started to see what quality drafting can do and need to continue finding good young players to build around.

 

I hear people talking about maybe moving Virtanen, Demko....I just don't get it. We have spent the tail end of the good years complaining there was nothing coming down the pipe, prospects were non-existent and the organization was looked at as a dead landscape with depreciating assets.

 

Well now the team has built solid depth, think in goal: Markstrom, Demko, Dipietro, and Kielly. Four netminders to further develop, finally built solid depth. So why trade Demko ? you should not trade prospects until you know what you have in them, Demko while unknown is oozing potential. Re-sign Markstrom on a three year term as a starter and give Demko another year or two to see if he can force his way as a number one.

 

Some can argue, trade Demko, explore moving a netminder in a package to add at another position, the time is not now and the team has only now reached a point they can take time and develop their tenders.

 

Virtanen, a first rounder, making big strides this year. Hang onto him and play him, we need his physical element on the team, his speed. Not the player who should be on the outs.

 

The rebuild: Gain another couple maybe more quality prospects this year, the aim ? go Soderstrom in the first round. Perfect fit for the organization in adding a potentially offensive right handed blueliner who's game will compliment and succeed witht he Canucks growing young core. Further, if lucky enough to sneak him in round two snag Lassi Thomson, another right hander who is showing a solid and until this season under appreciated game.

 

Look at adding another scoring winger if possible via free agency and you've added more to your core.

 

Let's not forget Olli Juolevi, still gets no love by the media as I am still hearing " maybe he will develop into a top six defense role ". Huh ? the guy wil be a top four, log minutes and secondary PP time no doubt. Not sure if it's just other players taken in his draft year or a lack of legit playing time but the kid will be an important player in Vancouver moving forward.

 

Adding veterans like Roussel and Beagle were huge in developing the young players in the room and on the ice. 

 

The Canucks will be rebuilding for some time, they have the opportunity to add at minimum 2 ? 3? more quality pieces via the draft before they are starting to draft into the 20's. Maybe pushing to add a winger this summer like an Artemi Panarin ( doubtful ), Jeff Skinner, Marcus Johansson, or Brock Nelson to add scoring, but the team will need to keep developing the Lind, Jasek, Gadjovich's of the world while adding to that stable.

I am generally not in favor for trading our young players/prospects except for lateral moves

 

The Canucks will pick a forward in this draft at 10 OA (remind me if I am wrong)

 

Soderstrom may not even be on the board when we pick...…...Byram will be long gone

 

That is my 2 bits worth, anyway!

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The 10th overall and if we can pull it off, the 13th, are players that will most likely play at least another, if not 2 more years of junior/NCAA.  Before these picks become impact players (if they eventually do), it will take at least 3 to 5 years from now.  

 

For this reason, I would rather use the package that we would trade for the 13th overall, to acquire a 22-25 years old roster player (recent examples : E.Lindholm, Hanifin, Domi, Strome, etc.), that can help fill a void immediately in 2019-20. 

 

Ideally we keep drafting solid 1st rounder whether it's 10th overall or 25th overall, but that core needs to take the next steps, which is, being a serious playoff contenders.  With the addition of Hughes, I think we are 1 solid top 4 defenseman (ideally RHD) and 1 solid middle 6 forward, from being solid playoff contenders.  These are still 2 big IFs though

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I see the media has started the Jim Benning on the hot seat routine.

I think he has done an admirable job since he has been in charge and the biggest thing over the last few years of not getting better as fast as the media and "SOME" fans would like is the Canucks have continually been F@#$ed at the stupid LOTTO DRAFT.

If this team had not been screwed over 4 consecutive years in this stupid lotto draft we would definately be in a better position to succeed.

So it is all absolute LUCK and no skill now, to be able to Draft the players to help put your team in better places to achieve the goals of improving.

The league should be ashamed of this sham of a system,and help the teams with worse standings to improve at the draft as it was supposed to do.

 

The league, those corrupt types, know that Vancouvers fan base will come to games regardless of success of the team.so this is why they pull this $&!# on us and most real fans of this beautful game (Canadians) and keep us from our dreams of getting the ultimate goal the STANLEY CUP.

THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT.

 

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I think people seem to confuse rebuild with tanking. Or thinking tanking is the only way to rebuild. My definition of a rebuild is when we went from the Sedin era to a new core. Do we have enough new core pieces to build on? I think we are close. But once you've built that foundation, then you develop. We don't have to jump the gun and start selling picks and prospects to find vets that will take us to the promise land, but we can start to progress with the mindset of wanting to win and wanting to take it to the next level. Our players genuinely seem to want to win now and it's up to the progress of development internally to hopefully add some more depth. In the meantime, we may have to make a few moves to help expedite and also continue the development of what we have.

 

I think we can make the playoffs next year and still be "rebuilding". Hard to pinpoint when a rebuild ends (as much as figuring out when it started), but at some point we have to make a push to see what these guys can do and learn where to improve as a team and for the players themselves.

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  • -SN- changed the title to [Proposal] Signaling the rebuild is complete

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