[Discussion] Players on the Canucks with value that we don’t need

[Hindustan Smyl]

Players on the Canucks with value that we don’t need 

 

I want to create 3 categories here:

 

1) Players with trade value that we need and/or can’t be moved.

2) Players with limited trade value and/or players that are worth more to us than what we’d receive in return.  

3) Players with trade value and players that we don’t really really really need (like #1).  These players could return us something significant without retention.  These players are good players to have.....but unlike category #1, aren’t core players in the truest sense.

 

1)

Pettersson

Boeser

Horvat

Edler

Hughes

Markstrom.

 

 

2)

Goldobin

Eriksson

Sutter

Leivo

Beagle

Motte

Stecher

Tanev

Schenn

Gaudette

Sautner

2019 4th-7th

All current prospects in Utica

 

 

3)

Pearson

Virtanen

Roussel

Hutton

Demko

2019 1st

2019 2nd

2019 3rd

 

I’m probably a little off on a few of the above, but category #3 is what I’d like to focus on.

 

If the Canucks are interested in one of the current RFA’s on cap strapped teams, then I think creating some kind of package from #3 is what we should offer.

 

#1 isn’t worth it on our end, and #3 gets us laughed at.

 

Obviously, some RFA’s on the list (ie Brayden Point, Patrick Laine, etc.) would likely require us to part ways with someone from #1.......in which case, Vancouver should pass.

 

My question is as follows:

 

1) Are there any RFA’s that *wouldn't* cost us something from category #1?

2) WHO are the RFA’s around the league that wouldn’t cost us someone from category #1.

3) WHAT package from category #3 would you offer for a 2019 RFA?

 

[Crabcakes]

That's all very nice but let's get to the nut of the question. 

 

1.  Who is the core?  These are the keepers or untouchables.  Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes (likely), Markstrom

 

2.  Who do we need to support the core?  This is the area that the Canucks are lacking at this point.  There are some useful pieces but some important pieces are clearly missing like 1LW and a top 4 D on the right side which Benning has said that he wants to upgrade in the offseason.  Any of these players could be moved in order to upgrade the supporting cast and make the team better overall.  Within this group there are the useful ones who could be part of a winning team in the future:  lets start with Demko, Pearson, Roussel, Gaudette, Leivo, Beagle, Sutter, Motte, Virtanen, Stecher, Edler, Tanev, Granlund.  As we go down the list the value of the players becomes grey, they are also players who have less value on the trade market.  The Canucks really don't have a lot of value to move over all.  I may have left some out who are important but you get the jist of this.  Players like Goldy and Pouliot can walk with no impact on the team imo

 

But lets not discount players that bring character because this is something that winning teams have and others do not.

 

 

 

 

[Fanuck]

Non-playoff teams, generally speaking, don't have an abundance of valuable players or assets that the franchise doesn't need.  

 

We're no different despite the fact that CDC thinks we can get 1st rounders for guys not named EP, Hughes, Boesser,  BoHo.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Don't really understand why so many here are so eager to move Demko just because our 29 year old starter had a great 2nd half.

[-AJ-]

8 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Don't really understand why so many here are so eager to move Demko just because our 29 year old starter had a great 2nd half.

Agreed. I'd probably say both are very very risky to move atm until we know more.

[Boeserker]

Untouchables : 43, 6, 40, 53

 

Please touch me : All the rest

 

I will pay you to touch me: Loui mutha f%$#ing Eriksson

[Tyndall2]

Take Edler off the top list.  Also, keep both goalies around.  Everyone else except our young guns should be tradeable.  Keeps them on their toes (skates)

[coastal.view]

if the team is doing things right

there are no untouchables

some key pieces are just very very expensive

 

i can't help but hearing the title play in my head as

posters on cdc with value that we don't need

[Nucker 67]

KEEPERS: Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Pearson, Roussel, Beagle, Gaudette, MacEwen, Edler, Hughes, Schenn, Juolevi, Markstrom, Demko

 

THEY CAN STAY, FOR NOW: Baertschi, Leivo, Goldobin, Virtanen, Motte, Schaller, Gadjovich Lind, Hutton, Sautner, Brisebois, Biega, McEneny

 

GOTSTA GO: Sutter, Eriksson, Spooner, Granlund, Pouliot, Tanev

[J.I.A.H.N]

I guess my biggest question is...……..

 

Are we building a team to compete in 2019-2020 ?

or

Are we building a team to compete in 2022 -2023 ?

 

I think it is an real important question, when deciding what players are important...….

 

As it is always important to look to the future, I think that the keeper list is a little thin 

 

In saying that, no player is untradeable, if the return is appropriate

 

Therefore, it is only the degree on importance that player plays, and the expected return, that may prohibit such a trade

 

From the best to the worse, the same rule applies

 

But, I think in saying that, the question of whom we would keep out of Demko and Markstrom, is still up in the air and has not been

 

completely determined. If Demko is given the same rope as Markstrom, it would be totally premature, to rank Markstrom higher.

 

As well as Markstrom played this year, or may play next year, Demko's undelaying numbers in a short sample size, where as

 

good, if not better than Markstrom's. To make a decision to go with Markstrom, would be to say that Markstrom will be a number 1 for an extended 

 

period of time (5 to 8 years), which is a stretch, when considering Markstrom has had 1 good season. IMO, Markstrom then becomes the tradeable

 

Asset, and Demko because of age and play, should be equally valued, if not valued higher.....

[Baer.]

I want you to slowly read that title again...the only pieces the Canucks have, that have substantial trade value, are the ones you don't want to trade.

[J.I.A.H.N]

28 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

KEEPERS: Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Pearson, Roussel, Beagle, Gaudette, MacEwen, Edler, Hughes, Schenn, Juolevi, Markstrom, Woo, Demko, 

                                                             Virtanen, and Madden

 

TRADEABLE BUT VALUED ASSETS: Baertschi, Leivo, Goldobin, Virtanen, Motte, Schaller, Gadjovich, Lind, Hutton, Sautner, Brisebois, Biega, McEneny,  

                                                              DiePietro, Tanev, Jasek, and Lockwood

 

GOTSTA GO: Eriksson, Spooner, Granlund, and Pouliot

Good List...……...I would add and label it a little different...….changed, only for my liking...…..like I said a good list

 

I will also state, that the middle group, needs to be taken as a list of assets, that are moved for assets that could be moved into the top group, as they have value, beyond that of the bottom group...………….players of the second group that should have decent value are Virtanen, Baertschi, Hutton, and Tanev, and should not be traded, unless there is good value coming back, either alone or in a package.

 

What I find so impressive is the top 17 list, where there is a lot of future, and to be able to add through the draft and lateral trades, is uplifting

 

I guess the whole point is, there is promise, which a few years ago, we just didn't have

 

 

[Jaku]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Don't really understand why so many here are so eager to move Demko just because our 29 year old starter had a great 2nd half.

This. 

 

DON'T TRADE DEMKO. 

 

This whole "we don't need Demko" crap is getting old. 

Demko is the Canucks goaltending future and he's going to be damn good at it. Stop trying to tell everyone we don't need him because Markstrom had a few good months of goaltending. 

 

 

[JM_]

7 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Players on the Canucks with value that we don’t need 

 

2) Players with limited trade value and/or players that are worth more to us than what we’d receive in return.  

3) Players with trade value and players that we don’t really really really need (like #1).  These players could return us something significant without retention.  These players are good players to have.....but unlike category #1, aren’t core players in the truest sense.

 

2)

Goldobin

Eriksson

Leivo

Motte

Schenn

Sautner

 

 

3)

Hutton

Players in category 2 can be moved, or not re-signed, and likely be replaced in free agency. But why bother? we'll just end up paying more for the same tier of talent.

 

Of course if we can find a new home for Loui it makes sense for all involved. Maybe packaging Loui with one of Leivo Motte or Sautner would be part of it and a good use of some extra bottom 6 depth.

 

Hutton is really the only one that MIGHT get us something OK in a return, like another project prospect.

 

We need all the talent we have. We can't be trading high picks either. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Don't really understand why so many here are so eager to move Demko just because our 29 year old starter had a great 2nd half.

just because of potential expansion issues. But I would like to see another year out of both before throwing that switch. 

[smithers joe]

i think bo needs pearson, who compliments bo. he could really use a scoring right winger.

petey and brock could use a talented winger with some grit. 

gaudette needs roussel, but could use a good goal scoring rw’er. that could give us 3 scoring lines. 

beagle and ? could fill out our 4th line.

if edler is back, we should be okay at left d’s. our right side needs upgrading. other than stecher and oft injured tanev, we are so weak.

we have a good goalie tandem right now.

the trouble i see is the players it would take to get those players, would cost us players, we don’t want to give up. 

of course. every year, the fans will talk of trading their higgins and raymonds of their years, for needed help. 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Players in category 2 can be moved, or not re-signed, and likely be replaced in free agency. But why bother? we'll just end up paying more for the same tier of talent.

 

Of course if we can find a new home for Loui it makes sense for all involved. Maybe packaging Loui with one of Leivo Motte or Sautner would be part of it and a good use of some extra bottom 6 depth.

 

Hutton is really the only one that MIGHT get us something OK in a return, like another project prospect.

 

We need all the talent we have. We can't be trading high picks either. 

 

You know Jimmy (not directed at you)

 

I always take issue with the fact people say, we have no talent, and therefore the players have no value

 

We along with other teams, suffered again through our share of injuries, and when it got to an epidemic 

 

We started to loose....no mystery, but what gets me is we were a decent team beating decent teams

 

Latter on in the year, when we got healthier, despite Pettersson's mini slump, we still won our share

 

So for me, I looked at our season as a middle of the pack team, with the same amount of players playing good 

 

with the same amount playing bad, just like any other middle of the road team, with players moving up to fill injuries.

 

We were 21 or 31 teams, being only 5 points from 16th place team, so I think I can safely say we were a middle of the road team

 

My point is, that players like, Tanev, Baertschi, Hutton, play in the top 10 on our team...either 1st line or 2nd, either 1st pairing or 2nd

 

Those types of players have value throughout the league, I would even go as far as to say that Sutter and Granlund have decent value,

 

albeit lesser.

 

So, despite what League fans think, and say...…."IF"  Benning wants to move them, they will have value. Sutter for instance, was being asked

 

about at the TDL, but was injured, as I believe was Tanev, and Baertschi. I see no reason to think that any one of those players would get

 

good value, and that value could be enhanced with futures or cap retention, or packaged, or all of the 3, but the point is they can bring value back.

 

I, as you know, say move those that are no core and have value...target late 1st's and early 2nds. I find it hard to believe with the teams that are facing 

 

tough cap decisions that there is not a deal to be had, and also those that have now seen the demands of the playoffs and the holes that have been

 

exposed......

 

I just don't see the issue the same, when talking about player value....

[Fateless]

Markstrom is a core player but Demko is an expendable asset? What backward world am I living in.

[JM_]

36 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

You know Jimmy (not directed at you)

 

I always take issue with the fact people say, we have no talent, and therefore the players have no value

 

We along with other teams, suffered again through our share of injuries, and when it got to an epidemic 

 

We started to loose....no mystery, but what gets me is we were a decent team beating decent teams

 

Latter on in the year, when we got healthier, despite Pettersson's mini slump, we still won our share

 

So for me, I looked at our season as a middle of the pack team, with the same amount of players playing good 

 

with the same amount playing bad, just like any other middle of the road team, with players moving up to fill injuries.

 

We were 21 or 31 teams, being only 5 points from 16th place team, so I think I can safely say we were a middle of the road team

 

My point is, that players like, Tanev, Baertschi, Hutton, play in the top 10 on our team...either 1st line or 2nd, either 1st pairing or 2nd

 

Those types of players have value throughout the league, I would even go as far as to say that Sutter and Granlund have decent value,

 

albeit lesser.

 

So, despite what League fans think, and say...…."IF"  Benning wants to move them, they will have value. Sutter for instance, was being asked

 

about at the TDL, but was injured, as I believe was Tanev, and Baertschi. I see no reason to think that any one of those players would get

 

good value, and that value could be enhanced with futures or cap retention, or packaged, or all of the 3, but the point is they can bring value back.

 

I, as you know, say move those that are no core and have value...target late 1st's and early 2nds. I find it hard to believe with the teams that are facing 

 

tough cap decisions that there is not a deal to be had, and also those that have now seen the demands of the playoffs and the holes that have been

 

exposed......

 

I just don't see the issue the same, when talking about player value....

oh I totally agree that there's value on the team, I'm just saying we can't afford to move much of it. People that want to throw away Sutter or Beagle e.g. don't know the value they bring to a team.

 

Like in all things, there's a trade off that makes sense for any player. Jim seems to be getting better at making trades, in part because he has better players to move. The Guddy for Pearson deal is a good one value-wise imo. We may yet get the best of that one if Pearson turns into a 25 goal guy on Bo's wing. 

 

We do have some bottom 6 depth and maybe even some marginal d prospect depth that I think we could move without much consequence. Any other moves will require free agents or trades to fill holes if we want to make the playoffs next year, imo anyway. 

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

 

                                                Hi-lited players should not be traded unless for a lateral or up graded move  1 for 1......No other reason

 

1)                                                  Post Expansion Draft Age (3 years)

Pettersson (20)……………………………………..22

Boeser (22)…………………………………...……..24

Horvat (24)…………………………………………..26

Edler (32)…………………...……………….……….34

Hughes (19)…...……………………...…….……….21

Woo (19)……………………………………………...21

Markstrom. (29)………………………………..…….31

 

 

2)

Goldobin (23)………………….........………………..25

Eriksson (33)……………………...………………….35

Sutter (30)……...………......…………...……………34

Leivo (25)……...………......………………...……….27

Beagle (33)…......………………………….........…...35

Motte (24)………………………...……...……………26

Stecher (25)…………………...…...………...……….27

Baertschi (26)……………………………......……….28

Tanev (29)………………………...…………......…...33

Schenn (29)…………………………………………..31

Gaudette (22)……………………………...…………24

Sautner (24)……………………...……......…………26

2019 4th-7th

All current prospects in Utica

 

 

3)

Madden (19)…………………………………...……….21

Pearson (26)………………………...………………...28

Virtanen (22)……...………………...…...…………….26

DiPietro (19)…………………………………………...21

Roussel (29)………............…………….…...……......31

Hutton (25)……………………………………………..27

Demko (23)…………............……...………………….25

2019 1st (18)……………………………………………20

2019 2nd (18)………………………………………......20

2020 1st (17)…………………………………………...19

2020 2nd (17)…………………………………………..19

 

All Others (Non-Hi-lited) should be considered as tradeable, "IF" the deal presents itself.