[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[coryberg]

9 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Playing next year or as soon as possible should not be in consideration when making a pick. If it is then Juolevi is a bust. Management said they wouldn't let that affect their decision and they didn't. It doesn't mean anything. 

So you dont want to answer the question. Fair enough.

[canuck73_3]

Just now, canuck_in_england said:

I get you have to start giving up picks when you think the time is right to push us over the top, but a first seems a lot for his goal scoring record. I guess with all trades....time will tell.

Do you like Bo Horvat? 

[RWMc1]

20 minutes ago, appleboy said:

They are now at 71 mil for 16 players. They need to resign Point.  They were and still are in cap trouble.  How much will point cost? Then they will still need to add 5 more players.

Callahan's 5.8 million is included in the 71. They can re-sign Point and fill the rest with ELC's and League minimums and use the LTIR after the start of the season.

[Laoag]

4 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

They damn-near blew it up in Dec..a young 'tender changed their fortunes. Gotta have SOME faith, my friend.

Not even comparable. I am plenty faithful when it comes to the team but sometimes you have to be realistic.

blues were a Stanley cup contender underachieving with a VERY good roster. We are a terrible team with a couple really good young players. not comparable.

[mpt]

Just now, Pickly said:

Meh. I’ve actually liked Miller for a long time and he plays a style that the Canucks need in their top 6. He’s big, physical, and isn’t afraid to muck it up. Plus, playing regular top 6 minutes should help inflate his stats. I’m not happy about the conditional 1st, but it is what it is. 

I wouldn’t be against it with a 2nd, but a 1st on a non playoff team is a terrible trade

[logic]

Would you idiots rather have a bonafide top6 forward in his prime to play with horvat and boeser or MAYBE develop an NHL’ player who plays 300 games with that pick lmao

[mpt]

Just now, logic said:

Would you idiots rather have a bonafide top6 forward in his prime to play with horvat and boeser or MAYBE develop an NHL’ player who plays 300 games with that pick lmao

Bonafide top 6 with no consistent top 6 experience?  Sounds logical

[canuck73_3]

Just now, mpt said:

I wouldn’t be against it with a 2nd, but a 1st on a non playoff team is a terrible trade

While we may not be a playoff team next season we will be the year after. Unless of course you think Pettersson, Bo, Boeser and Hughes have already hit their plateau which is laughable at best. 

[oldnews]

6 minutes ago, Virtanen#18 said:

Can someone pls explain how Mazanec is still under contract with us?? How could we include him in this deal?

you hold his rights until July 1st.

Tampa got the rights to sign him before hitting FA.

[logic]

56, 58, 47 points last 3 seasons what is that, third line production to you?

[Dr. Crossbar]

Miller's the type of player we need when we get into the playoffs. 

[ey40]

Someone please tell me with all the picks we threw away in this trade why can’t we get a decent defenceman? I hope JB is working his butt off to improve the defense of this team.

[Specz]

1 minute ago, goblix said:

there is so much wrong in here its hard....

 

firstly:

Podkolzin in the KHL for 2 years, when he signs he'll sign a 2-3 year ELC (depending on age I believe) so thats 4-5 years until you have to sign him to his first NHL contract.

Hoglander likely a year in the SHL prior to moving to the AHL so roughly 4 years for him.

 

secondly:

cap goes up in 3 years. Honestly the cost of a 5.5m contract is likely to be good third line player at that point. Things change and contracts also run out by the end of that time frame so it's silly to think that this 5.5m hampers any contract re-signings..

thirdly:

And you are assuming that they are going to be superstars like Pettersson / Boeser / Marner / Matthews ? nah it's great to have cap flexibility but you can't hold 10's of million of cap space just to have in the bank for 4 years from now... 

 

and the final nail in the coffin...

In 4 years that 5.5m goes off the cap space anyways lol so really this contract has nothing to do with resigning the picks these years and really 5.5m is not onerous.

 

 

 

 

on my own thoughts on this trade: 

I like the addition but obviously not liking the cost of the first for a forward.. would rather use that for Barrie. Hopefully we can find something on Colin Miller in VGK. if we find good value in grabbing him and perhaps get a good trade assets for Tanev then I can accept this trade more joyously

??? What? Half the things you just mentioned are not even facts they're assumptions.

1) There were talks about bringing Podkolzin a year sooner by buying out his last contract year in the KHL

2) How are you so sure about Hoglander's development? We JUST drafted these 2 guys and you already have their entire NHL trajectory planned out?

3) So your plan is to just assume that they WON'T perform and assume for the worst and not worry about cap space at all? If that's the case let's just spend to the cap NOW. Surely Demko won't be good, Juolevi will never amount to anything, Woo won't come in anytime later season and impress.

4) People said cap was going to go up THIS YEAR. But here we are and news is that Cap is probably not going up by much at all. Nowhere near what it was estimated to be. You don't even know this as a fact. "it's silly to think that this 5.5m hampers any contract re-signings" Do you think it's silly for the Oilers to think Lucic's 6m contract is hampering their cap? The truth is, every contract counts when you are spending close to the cap like the Canucks will.

5) And the final nail in the coffin... you said that there was "so much wrong" in my post, yet you have given nothing but assumptions and opinions, all of which could just be AS WRONG at the end of the day.

 

My concern simply is that upon spending to keep everyone together, we will still NOT BE good enough. Should that be the case, moves will have to be made to make us competitive, with the likelihood that core pieces will have to be moved. That is ALL I'm saying. You can think that isn't likely, but you can't be certain that it's wrong.

[RakuRaku]

7 minutes ago, goblix said:

all players are under contract until July 1rst at that moment the year runs out and in this case Mazanec becomes UFA.

So my question is, what is the point then?? Zero impact on cap space for both teams and the guy had already signed with a Czech club.

[mpt]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

While we may not be a playoff team next season we will be the year after. Unless of course you think Pettersson, Bo, Boeser and Hughes have already hit their plateau which is laughable at best. 

I don’t think they’ve hit their plateau, but assuming that means we make the playoffs is a different story.  Its a mere coin flip.  

[mpt]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Miller's the type of player we need when we get into the playoffs. 

Yea his playoffs stats completely proves, he’s what we need

[canuck73_3]

2 minutes ago, mpt said:

Bonafide top 6 with no consistent top 6 experience?  Sounds logical

Except being a top 6 player for the Rangers and his first season with Tampa before they got stacked... yeah, you're clueless about JT Miller wadr. 

[pluralsight]

53 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

God, this board is hilarious!

 

[Before terms of the deal were announced]

 

- Benning is amazing!  What a genius he is!

- What a great trade, we didn't even have to give up our 2nd round pick for him!

 

[After it's announced that the trade is our 3rd, Mazanec and our 1st next year or the year after]

 

- Ewww!  Yuck!

- What a terrible trade!  

It's almost like you have to give up quality to get quality back. 

[mll]

3 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

Callahan's 5.8 million is included in the 71. They can re-sign Point and fill the rest with ELC's and League minimums and use the LTIR after the start of the season.

Or just go above up to his cap hit.  There are 2 approaches with LTIR - go under first or go above.  The CBA has examples of both approaches.

 

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Yeah that's why I'm confused. I'm getting conflicting messages here. Podkolzin pick sounds like long term thinking, Miller deal sounds like short term thinking. 

 

We should not be thinking short term yet. We still have work to do long term. 

He's signed for 4 more years at a great cap hit for what he brings.  How is that short term thinking?  He'll fit right in with the older core guys like Bo and Baer and be an important veteran element for playoffs.

 

I don't like giving up a first, but you have to give to get and this is a hockey trade, not a cap dump.