[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[Gaudette Celly]

5 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Nobody with half a brain should hate the trade on our end. Draft pick hard on around here needs to chill and replace it with a love for winning hockey.

1st round pick = making the playoffs

winning the lottery = Stanley Cup

[Sikhguy23]

9 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

1st round pick = making the playoffs

winning the lottery = Stanley Cup

Edmonton and mcjesus and party say hello 

[Gaudette Celly]

Just now, Sikhguy23 said:

Edmonton and mcjesus and party say hello 

4 cups this decade -- dynasty!

[Kanukfanatic]

22 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

So I’ve seen some opinions from the other side on NHL Instagram .  A lot of Lightning fans hate the trade.  They say that Miller is one of the only players on their team to do something every night which I’m really liking.  Since some on both sides hate the trade I’m thinking it’s pretty even in value.  I’m looking forward to seeing a second version of Horvat on our team.  This really sets us in the right direction making sure we have all our pieces at the same time.  We can’t do everything by drafting and this is the perfect time to go for the playoffs with the cap this year.  Get cheaper UFAs and get players like Miller in trade and start being a playoff contender.  I’m excited!

Excellent post!!

[oldnews]

17 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

So I’ve seen some opinions from the other side on NHL Instagram .  A lot of Lightning fans hate the trade.  They say that Miller is one of the only players on their team to do something every night which I’m really liking.  Since some on both sides hate the trade I’m thinking it’s pretty even in value.  I’m looking forward to seeing a second version of Horvat on our team.  This really sets us in the right direction making sure we have all our pieces at the same time.  We can’t do everything by drafting and this is the perfect time to go for the playoffs with the cap this year.  Get cheaper UFAs and get players like Miller in trade and start being a playoff contender.  I’m excited!

I think some people confuse 'building through the draft' with building everything through the draft - which has probably never been done.

The draft doesn't always serve you up constant BPAs who also happen to fit organizational need - at some point you need to add a key piece or two by other means - and certainly many keyp depth pieces are regularly acquired by other means.   This is the type of player that is difficult to acquire if you don't draft them yourself - and given the reality of the UFA market - I think this iis a very well calculated move in a number of ways.

Looking forward to not only seeing an exciting and deepening top 6 with a very good supporting case of enabling bottom six forwards, but also what they do to complete the blueline, where I think there is a  decent measure of options.   For me, they are a good heavy piece away from a pretty decent blueline (when healthy) - and that's not factoring players like Juolevi, Woo, Sautner, Brisebois or other guys that could push.  They also have an excellent goaltending pipeline.  

They don't necessarily need volumes of picks - they just need a regular complement to sustain what they're doing - and could potentially gain a 1st back if they choose to 'weaponize' their cap space.   They have a lot of options and flexibility imo - more than most teams - and enough talented youth to get excited about.

If their key hard minutes veterans like Edler, Tanev, Sutter and Beagle could actually stay healthy this year, it could be a fun ride and a surprising club.

[oldnews]

17 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

1st round pick = making the playoffs

winning the lottery = Stanley Cup

what if you won the lottery, but had to spend a 1st on a cap dump.

Do they miss the playoffs and win the Cup?

The Leafz are so confuzing!!

Is the proper-rebuild done?

Edited June 24, 2019 by oldnews

[Me_]

Myers & Nyquist and the Canucks are much better for a while.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Myers & Nyquist and the Canucks are much better for a while.

We have <18 million with Edler and Miller. We still need to re-sign Boeser too

[ButterBean]

Another thing that people aren’t brining up about JT Miller that much is his net presence. He can score the greasy goals and has good hands in tight for deflections and rebounds. Suddenly our power play can be very lethal with Horvat taking draws and playing down low, JT in front, Boeser/Petey working the side walls, and Hughes manning the point.

[iinatcc]

On 6/22/2019 at 9:51 PM, fanofvan said:

Does not compute in what way?

 

3 of the players you listed were pending UFA rentals while Miller is signed for 4 more years at a very favorable cap hit.

And what about Nino Neiderreiter? 

 

Also we can also use PK Subban as a comparison. An elite d-man Nashville had to give up due to cap issues and The Devils giving up relatively little. And, suffice to say, Subban has a higher value than Miller.

 

[StanleyCupOneDay]

8 hours ago, WolfxHaley said:

I love how all these posters just assume that this player/ that player would sign here in free agency or this trade/that trade is even on the table. Too much video games for these kids, I understand this is a discussion but you’re crucifying people over theories and hypotheticals that we don’t even know if they even are/were options XD

 

Is this your first time on the forum? That’s the norm and why I mostly lurk.

[Me_]

1 hour ago, ButterBean said:

Another thing that people aren’t brining up about JT Miller that much is his net presence. He can score the greasy goals and has good hands in tight for deflections and rebounds. Suddenly our power play can be very lethal with Horvat taking draws and playing down low, JT in front, Boeser/Petey working the side walls, and Hughes manning the point.

I gave you a  after going into a head-spin from the spectacular.

 

LEE THAWLL.

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Me_

[oldnews]

One other comparable that I might have been interested in acquiring by trade - is Kreider - but he is a few years older, he has only a year of term left, and he's not only going to get paid, but would the Rags move him (not everyone is  necessarily available in a rething), let alone what would the asking price be.   They, unlike Tampa, don't lack leverage - so when Benning approached Tampa, there's a team lacking leverage due to cap, and if people don't like the moderate price that Miller cost, I really doubt they'd like what comparables would/would have cost.  Kreider for a conditional 1st in the future, and a 3rd  = I doubt it.

[Silver Ghost]

21 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

And what about Nino Neiderreiter? 

 

Also we can also use PK Subban as a comparison. An elite d-man Nashville had to give up due to cap issues and The Devils giving up relatively little. And, suffice to say, Subban has a higher value than Miller.

 

9 mil cap hit, no retention by Nashville = lower return.

 

Subban is a brutal comparison. And TB was not in as much cap hell with the Callahan announcement. And TB need to shed cap was to sign Point, their own player. Nashville likely wanted cap to go after a Duchene as aUFA, so were more urgently needing to make that move.

 

Apples to oranges.

[StanleyCupOneDay]

Most points have been discussed to death already and I probably should have posted this on my defense of the trade data post, but something to note is that there is a BIG difference in the value of a 1st round pick in the top half (1-15) and the bottom half (16-31). There’s also a big difference in the likelihood of getting a .5 PPG player in the top vs bottom half. 

 

Unless the Canucks $&!# the bed for the next two years in a row, the pick we’ll be giving up is a bottom half first. A player with a .5 PPG career average could only be found in 7-33.3% of the picks in the 16-30th range each draft.

 

I’m definitely ok giving up that for a prime year J.T. Miller on a bargain contract.

Edited June 24, 2019 by StanleyCupOneDay

[Maddogy]

2 varying perspectives on this trade:

 

(1) add to the core players we already have, he must still be young but veteran, play physical with size, versatile, great contract and grow with the core players, can skate and make skilled  plays, should be a valuable player for the playoffs——— this is a good/potentially great trade.

 

underlying logic: Horvat is reaching his prime, can not rebuild team for too long or else may be stuck in rebuild like Edmonton, Florida and Buffalo. Long rebuild did not benefit Winnipeg as they did not win Cup and are now in cap hell shedding players.

 

(2) need to accumulate as many assets as possible before making the playoffs, try to win draft lottery, become a Cup contender as soon as making playoffs. Vancouver has great depth for goal tending, centres and wingers, but rebuild should not be hurried unless and until depth in defence is addressed through drafting or transactions, it is preferable that a Norris or legit #1 D prospect is in hand before rebuild is concluded ——— this trade detracts from long term asset management and is strategically the wrong move regardless of whether this is a fair trade with Tampa. 

 

underlying logic: objective of rebuild is to win the Cup not merely making the playoffs or become a

respectable team, need to be patient like Colorado to accumulate vast amount of assets to push for the Cup. When making the playoffs, the probability of going all the way must be as high as possible to maximize the limited window of opportunity.

 

 

My view: neither perspective is clearly right or wrong. The key in the long run is whether Jim and his management team can draft great players with lower draft picks. If they can, then this trade is unlikely to harm the chances of Cup contending in the long run. If Van wins the draft lottery next summer the rebuild

would as a result wind down.

[Me_]

56 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

2 varying perspectives on this trade:

 

(1) add to the core players we already have, he must still be young but veteran, play physical with size, versatile, great contract and grow with the core players, can skate and make skilled  plays, should be a valuable player for the playoffs——— this is a good/potentially great trade.

 

underlying logic: Horvat is reaching his prime, can not rebuild team for too long or else may be stuck in rebuild like Edmonton, Florida and Buffalo. Long rebuild did not benefit Winnipeg as they did not win Cup and are now in cap hell shedding players.

 

(2) need to accumulate as many assets as possible before making the playoffs, try to win draft lottery, become a Cup contender as soon as making playoffs. Vancouver has great depth for goal tending, centres and wingers, but rebuild should not be hurried unless and until depth in defence is addressed through drafting or transactions, it is preferable that a Norris or legit #1 D prospect is in hand before rebuild is concluded ——— this trade detracts from long term asset management and is strategically the wrong move regardless of whether this is a fair trade with Tampa. 

 

underlying logic: objective of rebuild is to win the Cup not merely making the playoffs or become a

respectable team, need to be patient like Colorado to accumulate vast amount of assets to push for the Cup. When making the playoffs, the probability of going all the way must be as high as possible to maximize the limited window of opportunity.

 

 

My view: neither perspective is clearly right or wrong. The key in the long run is whether Jim and his management team can draft great players with lower draft picks. If they can, then this trade is unlikely to harm the chances of Cup contending in the long run. If Van wins the draft lottery next summer the rebuild

would as a result wind down.

Hughes.

[The Great Canucks]

5 hours ago, guntrix said:

Exactly this. Or how someone on hfboards put it, this move increases the team’s chances of being good in the short term but decreases its chances of being great in the long term. 

 

It’s no secret that this fan base is one of the most impatient in the league; the sea of empty seats when things go south is pretty evident. Benning and co probably know this too. 

 

Horvat is our oldest core player at 24, Boeser is 22, Juolevi 21, Pettersson 20, Hughes 19. I for one don’t think we’re at the stage in our rebuild to start trading away 1st round picks, though I think, unfortunately, that most won’t care if it turns out that the team can immediately compete for a playoff spot, even if we end up getting trounced in the first round. 

No, not exactly this. What a god awful take. We traded ONE first round pick, and it was for a player in his prime with term, not some one year rental. That doesn't make us mediocre. When you have a core of Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Boeser and Demko, with Juolevi and Podkolzin eventually following, you damn well better start trying to compete.

 

At what point do you stop sitting on your ass and actually try going for it? Or have you become so addicted to losing already? How many first round picks do we need until it's finally time to start winning? What exactly are we waiting on?

[Zoolander]

56 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

No, not exactly this. What a god awful take. We traded ONE first round pick, and it was for a player in his prime with term, not some one year rental. That doesn't make us mediocre. When you have a core of Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Boeser and Demko, with Juolevi and Podkolzin eventually following, you damn well better start trying to compete.

 

At what point do you stop sitting on your ass and actually try going for it? Or have you become so addicted to losing already? How many first round picks do we need until it's finally time to start winning? What exactly are we waiting on?

I love this... let's not end up like Deadmonton

[grandmaster]

1 hour ago, The Great Canucks said:

No, not exactly this. What a god awful take. We traded ONE first round pick, and it was for a player in his prime with term, not some one year rental. That doesn't make us mediocre. When you have a core of Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Boeser and Demko, with Juolevi and Podkolzin eventually following, you damn well better start trying to compete.

 

At what point do you stop sitting on your ass and actually try going for it? Or have you become so addicted to losing already? How many first round picks do we need until it's finally time to start winning? What exactly are we waiting on?

Well stated!