[Signing] Tyler Myers to Vancouver

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I haven't seen any smoke around stralman and JB.......however, there wasn't any for Miller either

We'll find out what the plan is soon enough

 

[oldnews]

Let's play the "Tyler Myers sucks" game - and try to spin the reasons why he'd be a horrible addition.

 

Let's cherry pck the worst outcomes and see if it holds up later:

 

1) first, his underlying numbers.

56.7% ozone starts

48.8% corsi.

Not very good - because corsi relative to zone starts.

 

2) Giveaways:  63 giveaways (3rd most on Winnipeg behind Trouba and Chiarot).

 

3) Did not score in 6 playoff games for them.

 

4) Age.term - at 29, any term exceeding 6 years could be risky.

 

 

Ok.

Now let's look at the counterpoints - to those concerns, and the positves.

 

1)  Myers underlying numbers are fairly consistent with his partners - Kulikov, Morrow and Chiarot.  Moreover, he was more productive than any of his partners, and it would be hard to argue that he was 'propped up' by anyone.   

Myers - 31 pts +11

Kulikov - 7 points, +4 (57 games).

Chiarot - 20 points, +6

Morrow - 7 points, even (41 games)

Moreover, Myers' zone starts were 13th on the Jets, and his corsi was 13th on the Jets.

 

Myers' on ice goal metrics were better than his corsi / shot attempt metrics might suggest.

2.9 on ice goals for per 60, 2.6 against.

Chiarot 2.1 / 2.0

Kulikov 2.5/2.3

Morrow 3.2/3.2

For an average of  2.6/2.5

He and his partners also typically had good on ice save % (Morrow not so good - a downgrade defensively vs Kulkov/Chiarot).

 

2) Giveaways = 63 - Myers was 2nd in scoring on the Jets blueline (considerably more productive than his partners and the principal puck mover on his pairing - and was also 4th and 3rd in blocks and hits on the Jets blueline.

 

3) Myers at 2:09 / game of penalty killing ice time was highest next to the Morrisey/Trouba pairing / twice as much time as he spent on the powerplay.

At over 20 minutes of ice-time, he was 4th on the Jets/game (Byf, Trouba, Morrisey)

 

4) 22 of his points were at even strength - another couple shorthanded = his production was not inflated by 7 powerplay points.

 

5) Would probably really excel with a partner like Edler.   Whether he could 'shelter' Hughes may be in doubt in some people's minds, but I think he's better defensively than the general perception - and if that did not work out, they have the option of Edler - or signing a defensive D (Hutton alternative) and pairing that guy with Myers....

 

 

I find it hard to agree with any suggestion that he's not 'really' a top 4 or would be a disastrous signing.

[RonMexico]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Let's play the "Tyler Myers sucks" game - and try to spin the reasons why he'd be a horrible addition.

 

Let's cherry pck the worst outcomes and see if it holds up later:

 

1) first, his underlying numbers.

56.7% ozone starts

48.8% corsi.

Not very good - because corsi relative to zone starts.

 

2) Giveaways:  63 giveaways (3rd most on Winnipeg behind Trouba and Chiarot).

 

3) Did not score in 6 playoff games for them.

 

4) Age.term - at 29, any term exceeding 6 years could be risky.

 

 

Ok.

Now let's look at the counterpoints - to those concerns, and the positves.

 

1)  Myers underlying numbers are fairly consistent with his partners - Kulikov, Morrow and Chiarot.  Moreover, he was more productive than any of his partners, and it would be hard to argue that he was 'propped up' by anyone.   

Myers - 31 pts +11

Kulikov - 7 points, +4 (57 games).

Chiarot - 20 points, +6

Morrow - 7 points, even (41 games)

Moreover, Myers' zone starts were 13th on the Jets, and his corsi was 13th on the Jets.

 

Myers' on ice goal metrics were better than his corsi / shot attempt metrics might suggest.

2.9 on ice goals for per 60, 2.6 against.

Chiarot 2.1 / 2.0

Kulikov 2.5/2.3

Morrow 3.2/3.2

For an average of  2.6/2.5

He and his partners also typically had good on ice save % (Morrow not so good - a downgrade defensively vs Kulkov/Chiarot).

 

2) Giveaways = 63 - Myers was 2nd in scoring on the Jets blueline (considerably more productive than his partners and the principal puck mover on his pairing - and was also 4th and 3rd in blocks and hits on the Jets blueline.

 

3) Myers at 2:09 / game of penalty killing ice time was highest next to the Morrisey/Trouba pairing / twice as much time as he spent on the powerplay.

At over 20 minutes of ice-time, he was 4th on the Jets/game (Byf, Trouba, Morrisey)

 

4) 22 of his points were at even strength - another couple shorthanded = his production was not inflated by 7 powerplay points.

 

5) Would probably really excel with a partner like Edler.   Whether he could 'shelter' Hughes may be in doubt in some people's minds, but I think he's better defensively than the general perception - and if that did not work out, they have the option of Edler - or signing a defensive D (Hutton alternative) and pairing that guy with Myers....

 

 

I find it hard to agree with any suggestion that he's not 'really' a top 4 or would be a disastrous signing.

If he's so good why is Winnipeg letting him go? Huh huh? He must suck! Plus he's a UFA so were gunna overpay and JB knows nothing about signing FAs. Eriksson was such a disaster! He traded for Guddy who was already a bust and we gave up a 1st rounder in the deal. This is a rebuilding team that traded pickzzz? This tool of a GM screws up at everything - except scouting so why is he even a GM? Am I doing this right?

[bree2]

they are letting him go because they are right up to the cap and they can't afford him and they have others like Laine to sign

[RonMexico]

7 minutes ago, bree2 said:

they are letting him go because they are right up to the cap and they can't afford him and they have others like Laine to sign

Asset management! Let him walk for nothing? Jets fans certainly must be upset with their GMs inability to recover at least a pick for this pile of smoldering embers when they knew he wasn't going to be re-signed.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

 

Quote

I find it hard to agree with any suggestion that he's not 'really' a top 4 or would be a disastrous signing.

The people suggesting the he’d be a disastrous signing, are basing that off the assumption he gets the term and dollars that are being rumoured. 7x7. 

 

Comparing him to his 6/7 D counter parts as a rebuttal to why he’s worth it a big term and cap hit is meaningless. Great his goals for per 60 were better than jets other depth D. That would make sense when you consider he played 20x more minutes on the PP than the next comparable.

 

Yay he was second on jets scoring for d. Wait actually he was tied for 4th and the two players tied with him played significantly less games then him. Morrissey played 21 less games and buf played 38 games less and had the same amount of points. 

 

Context is important or else you are just cherry picking numbers in an attempt to spin your own narrative. And really all one has to do ask themself. How do those numbers translate into the impact he would bring canucks. Would they justify the cap hit and term about the rumored ask. No, the numbers you provided a just fluff. No different than the numbers you complain about when others post. 

[Maketherightmove]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Let's play the "Tyler Myers sucks" game - and try to spin the reasons why he'd be a horrible addition.

 

Let's cherry pck the worst outcomes and see if it holds up later:

 

1) first, his underlying numbers.

56.7% ozone starts

48.8% corsi.

Not very good - because corsi relative to zone starts.

 

2) Giveaways:  63 giveaways (3rd most on Winnipeg behind Trouba and Chiarot).

 

3) Did not score in 6 playoff games for them.

 

4) Age.term - at 29, any term exceeding 6 years could be risky.

 

 

Ok.

Now let's look at the counterpoints - to those concerns, and the positves.

 

1)  Myers underlying numbers are fairly consistent with his partners - Kulikov, Morrow and Chiarot.  Moreover, he was more productive than any of his partners, and it would be hard to argue that he was 'propped up' by anyone.   

Myers - 31 pts +11

Kulikov - 7 points, +4 (57 games).

Chiarot - 20 points, +6

Morrow - 7 points, even (41 games)

Moreover, Myers' zone starts were 13th on the Jets, and his corsi was 13th on the Jets.

 

Myers' on ice goal metrics were better than his corsi / shot attempt metrics might suggest.

2.9 on ice goals for per 60, 2.6 against.

Chiarot 2.1 / 2.0

Kulikov 2.5/2.3

Morrow 3.2/3.2

For an average of  2.6/2.5

He and his partners also typically had good on ice save % (Morrow not so good - a downgrade defensively vs Kulkov/Chiarot).

 

2) Giveaways = 63 - Myers was 2nd in scoring on the Jets blueline (considerably more productive than his partners and the principal puck mover on his pairing - and was also 4th and 3rd in blocks and hits on the Jets blueline.

 

3) Myers at 2:09 / game of penalty killing ice time was highest next to the Morrisey/Trouba pairing / twice as much time as he spent on the powerplay.

At over 20 minutes of ice-time, he was 4th on the Jets/game (Byf, Trouba, Morrisey)

 

4) 22 of his points were at even strength - another couple shorthanded = his production was not inflated by 7 powerplay points.

 

5) Would probably really excel with a partner like Edler.   Whether he could 'shelter' Hughes may be in doubt in some people's minds, but I think he's better defensively than the general perception - and if that did not work out, they have the option of Edler - or signing a defensive D (Hutton alternative) and pairing that guy with Myers....

 

 

I find it hard to agree with any suggestion that he's not 'really' a top 4 or would be a disastrous signing.

Would you sign any of these guys to 7x7 contracts? 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

But, but - apparently there's no one else with the "want or will" so sign Myers.

The Canucks are supposedly the only team interested......but there's a "lot of demand for defensemen".

Hmmm.

No wonder people don't know what to think.

I know what to think, we need d upgrades. 

 

Yes Myers will be overpaid, but it's also not at the expense of prospects. 

 

Myers will have  a positive effect on the entire d core far more than some 6/7 bargain hunt. 

[canuck73_3]

43 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

Would you sign any of these guys to 7x7 contracts? 

I love how everyone here jumps to the worst conclusion. There is no guarantee he's getting 7x7 or 7 years total or that much money. Whining about a signing before it even happens is ridiculous

[Alflives]

47 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

Would you sign any of these guys to 7x7 contracts? 

Myers is going to be JB's Chara.  He's going to stabilize our D for the next decade. We have a lot of really good young guys coming up over the next few years, and Myers is going to be the rock to build around.  

Hello Cups!!!!  

[Kosmo Kramer]

14 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I love how everyone here jumps to the worst conclusion. There is no guarantee he's getting 7x7 or 7 years total or that much money. Whining about a signing before it even happens is ridiculous

 Ah the internet where people assume the worst, everyone sucks and everything is an awful deal lol.

 

I dont think we will give him a 7x7, IF that does happen I would be disappointed but I would also reserve final judgement to how well he fits with us.

 

I remember how mad people were when we acquired Ehrhoff.

"Error-Hoff" HE'S GARBAGE! TURNOVER MACHINE! WHAT A TERRIBLE ADDITION. 

 

He fit our team like a glove.

 

You never know how a player will fit.

He could find his perfect defense partner and form one of the league's best pairings like Hamhuis and Bieksa.

 

Or he could never find his stride and not mesh with anyone well like Ballard or Gudbranson.

 

Some people need to pump the brakes and wait and see how it unfolds.

 

[captainhorvat]

22 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I love how everyone here jumps to the worst conclusion. There is no guarantee he's getting 7x7 or 7 years total or that much money. Whining about a signing before it even happens is ridiculous

Typical whiney canuck fans. Its unfortunate but thrs a high percentage of these fans.

[Nucker 67]

All I know is that I will be very disapponted if this is the D to start the season:

 

Edler - Tanev

Hughes - Schenn

Hutton - Stecher

Teves

 

But Benning did say they were going to overhaul the D this summer, which means big changes. As the saying goes "Nothing changes (no playoffs) if nothing changes (not upgrading the D) 

 

 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Maketherightmove said:

Would you sign any of these guys to 7x7 contracts? 

What? guys?

[Maketherightmove]

Just now, oldnews said:

What? guys?

Have another look. 

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, RonMexico said:

If he's so good why is Winnipeg letting him go? Huh huh? He must suck! Plus he's a UFA so were gunna overpay and JB knows nothing about signing FAs. Eriksson was such a disaster! He traded for Guddy who was already a bust and we gave up a 1st rounder in the deal. This is a rebuilding team that traded pickzzz? This tool of a GM screws up at everything - except scouting so why is he even a GM? Am I doing this right?

yessireeeee!

[Maketherightmove]

20 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

All I know is that I will be very disapponted if this is the D to start the season:

 

Edler - Tanev

Hughes - Schenn

Hutton - Stecher

Teves

 

But Benning did say they were going to overhaul the D this summer, which means big changes. As the saying goes "Nothing changes (no playoffs) if nothing changes (not upgrading the D) 

 

 

I would be disappointed with this as well, but honestly I'd rather this than significantly overpaying for Myers. 

 

Also, with the improved top 6, and another year of development for all of the core stars, as well as a full year of Hughes, the team could theoretically improve enough to compete for a playoff spot, assuming the core guys stay relatively healthy. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

52 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I love how everyone here jumps to the worst conclusion. There is no guarantee he's getting 7x7 or 7 years total or that much money. Whining about a signing before it even happens is ridiculous

 

33 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

Typical whiney canuck fans. Its unfortunate but thrs a high percentage of these fans.

Who’s whining about the signing? 

 

If discussing the negative affects about potential overpaying a player long term is whining then a hockey discussion board might not be your cup of tea.  

 

 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I know what to think, we need d upgrades. 

 

Yes Myers will be overpaid, but it's also not at the expense of prospects. 

 

Myers will have  a positive effect on the entire d core far more than some 6/7 bargain hunt. 

I agree that he's worth adding - within limits - I don't know if he'll be overpaid, I guess we'll find out over term if it happens.

 

The bargain hunt though - imo is not that bad - and not merely a bunch of 6/7s out there - I think there are actually a fair number of 3/4/5 placeholders that could/should be reasonably priced and not require a lot of term, while improving the team.  I think that takes the pressure off the need to go to hard after a player like Myers - there are alternatives that you may not have for 6 years, but there are also advantages to lesser term and the ability to bring young players in or up from within in due course, or pursue subsequent opportunities (while having committed less cap).

 

[oldnews]

33 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

Have another look. 

Explain what you mean by that question.

 

If it's as mundane as it appears - that you're asking if I'd sign Kulikov or Chiarot to 7x7 deals, then it's clear that you completely missed the point.

If you believe the point is a comparison of Myers to his linemates,, you've missed the point.

 

The point is the context in which he played - the players he played with, his relative outcomes....

 

The irony here is that in inadvertently  pointing out that none of Myers partners are worth near the contract being rumoured for Myers,  you nevertheless seem to get/realize something at least, regarding, again the context of his play - who he played with and their relative effect on his outcomes.

 

If you were to look at Jake Gardiner's outcomes - when he played with Hainsey, Zaitsev, Dermott or Reilly - relative to each other - you're not necessarily doing so for the purpose of comparing Gardiner to his linemates, you're doing so to see how his outcomes compare/differ when he plays with different partners.  You're more likely interested in comparing those partners to who he might be playing with in another context - that comparision is more important than comparing Gardiner himself to his team-mates (not the point).

Edited June 27, 2019 by oldnews