[Discussion] Can We All Agree That The Offseason Was a Smashing Success for JB

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, iinatcc said:

first 2 games, 0 wins, and one game where Vancouver is blanked.

 

I think creating this thread was a little premature 

so is your counter

[BPA]

If they miss the playoffs, they still get to keep the 1st in the Miller trade.  It's the next season that'll hurt if they miss the playoffs (basically a lottery pick for TB).

[iinatcc]

28 minutes ago, oldnews said:

so is your counter

Which was? That this claim is premature? I didn't say that the Canucks are done this season but a bad start is a bad start.  

[iinatcc]

29 minutes ago, BPA said:

If they miss the playoffs, they still get to keep the 1st in the Miller trade.  It's the next season that'll hurt if they miss the playoffs (basically a lottery pick for TB).

I am not sure why Vancouver didn't have the same conditions Ottawa had when they got Duchene? 

[10pavelbure96]

2 games people....

 

2 games. 

 

The Dallas Stars are also 0-2 and the sharks are 0-3.

 

But if you ask anyone they have both those teams penciled in as playoff teams.

 

Chill out

[butters]

4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

first 2 games, 0 wins, and one game where Vancouver is blanked.

 

I think creating this thread was a little premature 

you clearly have no problem with premature declarations, so why bother saying that?

[Matt_T83]

On 9/17/2019 at 10:25 PM, coastal.view said:

i will not enumerate all the things accomplished by the nucks gm since last season ended

many considered the brock signing to be the final piece before a complete assessment could be made

 

i think that contract is as consistently good as all the other things jb did this past summer

drafting, trading, ufa signings, other contract matters

(i'm sure many will nitpick -- i was never expecting perfection)

 

a top tier off season performance by gm jb in my books

good job!!

I think the opposite. It showed desperation. 

 

He signed a very risky contract with Tyler Myers. The guy was on a defensively deep Winnipeg Jets team. He hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman. And in every defensive pairing, there's usually someone "carrying" the pair. At $6M AAV, he needs to be CARRYING the 2nd pairing, meaning he needs to be #3 D-man, not the #4. I don't see him ever being a #3 D-man, which makes that a bad contract.

 

Then you've got the JT Miller trade ... oh boy. We gave up a freaking 1st round (in one of the next 2 drafts) + 3rd round pick for this guy!!! He's nowhere near good enough. He was a 3rd liner on an offensively deep Lightning team. That means the Lightning's opposition were focusing on shutting down the 1st and 2nd lines, leaving JT Miller more ice and scoring opportunities in the bottom half of the lineup. This guy is an average 3rd liner that had an above average year. 

 

JT Miller will likely not be able to translate his success to a 2nd line role on the Canucks, where he will face far more top defenders from opposing teams. 

 

I believe 2 years from now we will still be a non-playoff team, and then the Lightning are going to get our draft lottery pick in 2021. What a disaster.

[CanadianRugby]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:38 AM, 10pavelbure96 said:

2 games people....

 

2 games. 

 

The Dallas Stars are also 0-2 and the sharks are 0-3.

 

But if you ask anyone they have both those teams penciled in as playoff teams.

 

Chill out

It's CDC.  Look at how the threads looked the last few seasons when the Canucks got off to good starts to those seasons.  

As some have said.  Let's see where we're at 15-20 games in. 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

On 9/22/2019 at 5:05 PM, snipes2539 said:

Wow, welp there's no point aruging with someone who's made up their mind not to like someone, so agree to disagree. 

 

On 9/23/2019 at 6:08 PM, spur1 said:

You might want to take your shoes off so that you can count higher. 

6 drafts should equal 42 draft picks, the average team finds  players per draft, the average top ten picks are around 90% success rate and 80% of first round selections, with 5 top ten picks and two extra first round picks the team should have 5.6 drafted players making a difference instead they have 3, Brock, Pettersson and Hughes and the team still has to prove itself yet.

And the cap could be a disaster next year IF the youngest players do good and meet their bonus clauses. Combined with buyout (Spooner - 1+ mil), cap recapture (Luongo - 3+ mil) and bonuses ( 4.5+ mil) the team could be over 10+ million in the hole with extra hits before the season starts and that would mean shedding salary and players for a team that has yet to secure just a PO spot or hit .500 in a season.

 

JT Miller HAS to start potting goals so that the pressure can be taken off Boeser and Pettersson. The old refrain, "secondary scoring", the season is young yet.

 

Gaudette, Brock, Jake, Elias, Quinton, 3 that are/may be difference makers, Gaudette - an improvement/replacement for 3/4 line center and Jake - they don't know what to do with

 

Jonathan Dahlen lighting it up at over 2 points per game.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Borvat]

There have been mistakes.  There have been wins.   The biggest issue is the dead cap space for at least 2 more years:

 

$6.0M - Eriksson 

$4.4M - Sutter

$3.4M - Baertschi (hopefully he will be back or likely dealt they need the space because of the two names above - sad really)

$1.0M - Spooner Buyout

$3.0M - Luongo Recapture 

$17.8 Million

 

I am surprised that the team looks as good as it does (hopefully) with that much cap eaten up. It will be a challenge for the next few years unless the cap goes up. 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Borvat

[5Fivehole0]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:34 AM, iinatcc said:

I am not sure why Vancouver didn't have the same conditions Ottawa had when they got Duchene? 

We do? If we miss playoffs they get next years. Ottawa had the same choice, and ended up with Tkachuk over Byram or another

[iinatcc]

5 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

We do? If we miss playoffs they get next years. Ottawa had the same choice, and ended up with Tkachuk over Byram or another

Ottawa got to pick which of the two to keep. Seems like if Vancouver just missed the playoffs (i.e. 9th in the West) they have to keep their pick even though there's a chance Vancouver could finish lower next season.

[5Fivehole0]

9 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Ottawa got to pick which of the two to keep. Seems like if Vancouver just missed the playoffs (i.e. 9th in the West) they have to keep their pick even though there's a chance Vancouver could finish lower next season.

It was a gamble, if the Canucks make the playoffs this season and next, it was a win of a trade. If they miss this year and not next year its a wash, so long as Tampa doesnt draft a gem. If they make it and then miss, the trades still a wash but someones getting fired. If they miss both years its a huge W for Tampa.

[spur1]

The Canucks losing the first two games does not change the fact JB had a great off season.

[WeneedLumme]

20 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

I think the opposite. It showed desperation. 

 

He signed a very risky contract with Tyler Myers. The guy was on a defensively deep Winnipeg Jets team. He hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman. And in every defensive pairing, there's usually someone "carrying" the pair. At $6M AAV, he needs to be CARRYING the 2nd pairing, meaning he needs to be #3 D-man, not the #4. I don't see him ever being a #3 D-man, which makes that a bad contract.

 

Then you've got the JT Miller trade ... oh boy. We gave up a freaking 1st round (in one of the next 2 drafts) + 3rd round pick for this guy!!! He's nowhere near good enough. He was a 3rd liner on an offensively deep Lightning team. That means the Lightning's opposition were focusing on shutting down the 1st and 2nd lines, leaving JT Miller more ice and scoring opportunities in the bottom half of the lineup. This guy is an average 3rd liner that had an above average year. 

 

JT Miller will likely not be able to translate his success to a 2nd line role on the Canucks, where he will face far more top defenders from opposing teams. 

 

I believe 2 years from now we will still be a non-playoff team, and then the Lightning are going to get our draft lottery pick in 2021. What a disaster.

So Myers, who won the Calder Trophy as a rookie, and who was consistently a top 3 Dman in both ice time and points per game on a defensively deep Jets team for half a decade, "hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman."

 

And Miller, who prior to being assigned a more defensive role on an offensively deep Tampa team, scored 23 goals and 58 points the previous year and scored 22 goals and 56 points the year before, is "an average 3rd liner that had an above average year" by scoring only 47 points playing a defensive role.

 

You are absolutely full of crap. Back under your bridge trollboy.

[Boresquag]

1 hour ago, spur1 said:

The Canucks losing the first two games does not change the fact JB had a great off season.

Exactly. The time to assess the off season was before the season started, when nobody knew exactly what the results would be. At that time we could see the vision and understand the movement of certain players/picks, and the majority of posters seemed excited about the upcoming year. Evaluating off season moves only after things haven't worked out is nothing more than hindsight. 

 

That said, I'm still confident we have a stronger team than the first two games showed. 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

3 hours ago, spur1 said:

The Canucks losing the first two games does not change the fact JB had a great off season.

Yep, caught some good sized salmon, got a tan and new hair color. Spent a relaxing time on the ranch and time with the family.

[Matt_T83]

3 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

So Myers, who won the Calder Trophy as a rookie, and who was consistently a top 3 Dman in both ice time and points per game on a defensively deep Jets team for half a decade, "hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman."

 

And Miller, who prior to being assigned a more defensive role on an offensively deep Tampa team, scored 23 goals and 58 points the previous year and scored 22 goals and 56 points the year before, is "an average 3rd liner that had an above average year" by scoring only 47 points playing a defensive role.

 

You are absolutely full of crap. Back under your bridge trollboy.

OK. So I can quote you in a year or two and you'll apologize when you're wrong? Thanks. See you then.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

3 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

On 10/7/2019 at 7:27 PM, Matt_T83 said:

I think the opposite. It showed desperation. 

 

He signed a very risky contract with Tyler Myers. The guy was on a defensively deep Winnipeg Jets team. He hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman. And in every defensive pairing, there's usually someone "carrying" the pair. At $6M AAV, he needs to be CARRYING the 2nd pairing, meaning he needs to be #3 D-man, not the #4. I don't see him ever being a #3 D-man, which makes that a bad contract.

 

Then you've got the JT Miller trade ... oh boy. We gave up a freaking 1st round (in one of the next 2 drafts) + 3rd round pick for this guy!!! He's nowhere near good enough. He was a 3rd liner on an offensively deep Lightning team. That means the Lightning's opposition were focusing on shutting down the 1st and 2nd lines, leaving JT Miller more ice and scoring opportunities in the bottom half of the lineup. This guy is an average 3rd liner that had an above average year. 

 

JT Miller will likely not be able to translate his success to a 2nd line role on the Canucks, where he will face far more top defenders from opposing teams. 

 

I believe 2 years from now we will still be a non-playoff team, and then the Lightning are going to get our draft lottery pick in 2021. What a disaster.

So Myers, who won the Calder Trophy as a rookie, and who was consistently a top 3 Dman in both ice time and points per game on a defensively deep Jets team for half a decade, "hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate 2nd pairing defenseman."

 

And Miller, who prior to being assigned a more defensive role on an offensively deep Tampa team, scored 23 goals and 58 points the previous year and scored 22 goals and 56 points the year before, is "an average 3rd liner that had an above average year" by scoring only 47 points playing a defensive role.

 

You are absolutely full of crap. Back under your bridge trollboy

Matt_T83, don't worry about these shortsighted fans commenting, they just believe everything they are told too. Anyone could look up Miller's stats, they are just like Gagne's, a third line player that got alot of his points playing on the PP with the top two scorers on Tampa and on the best points team in the league. Tampa rapped Benning, Tampa needed to shed cap space without taking a player back, not only did they keep Point thanks to Benning they also are guaranteed a top 15 pick in one of the next two drafts helping them maintain their standings.

 

The team will have to see if Miller ends up like Gagne and Eriksson but that will take awhile, he certainly makes more body contact than either of the others but he was brought on board to get points. The disaster will come next year if Tampa gets a top notch player from this exceptional draft year or the Canucks are even worse the following year because they have to shed salary due to so many clause contracts and all the bonuses they need to pay.

 

But posters that like to yank your chain are "today" people that actually believe that losing close games is not losing at all.

 

The pressure each loss mounts on Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat's shoulders because the team has declared playoffs or bust. Edmonton pressured their young players just like this for a decade or longer and they were held up as the wrong way to rebuild, suddenly Vancouver doing the exact same is the right way. While there is no school that teaches hockey management occasionally seeing what other teams are doing to be successful or a disaster can be a hint of what to do or not do.

 

Vancouver is on track to be the next Edmonton pressuring the youngest players, players with less than 120 NHL games to be the cornerstones and take the blame for not winning. It is all on Pettersson and Boeser to score in order to win.

 

Giving up a first round pick to a capped out team desperate to shed salary so they can sign a better player and worse to include what many scouts think is the best draft year in 2+ decades and then say, hey let's throw an additional pick as well, a trade made in an enemy's basement no doubt, could not have been worse especially because there were MANY other players that the team could have approached for the same money without the loss of draft picks. Tampa should have been including their 1rst to help shed salary many other teams have done just that.

Edited October 8, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[spur1]

36 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Matt_T83, don't worry about these shortsighted fans commenting, they just believe everything they are told too. Anyone could look up Miller's stats, they are just like Gagne's, a third line player that got alot of his points playing on the PP with the top two scorers on Tampa and on the best points team in the league. Tampa rapped Benning, Tampa needed to shed cap space without taking a player back, not only did they keep Point thanks to Benning they also are guaranteed a top 15 pick in one of the next two drafts helping them maintain their standings.

 

The team will have to see if Miller ends up like Gagne and Eriksson but that will take awhile, he certainly makes more body contact than either of the others but he was brought on board to get points. The disaster will come next year if Tampa gets a top notch player from this exceptional draft year or the Canucks are even worse the following year because they have to shed salary due to so many clause contracts and all the bonuses they need to pay.

 

But posters that like to yank your chain are "today" people that actually believe that losing close games is not losing at all.

 

The pressure each loss mounts on Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat's shoulders because the team has declared playoffs or bust. Edmonton pressured their young players just like this for a decade or longer and they were held up as the wrong way to rebuild, suddenly Vancouver doing the exact same is the right way. While there is no school that teaches hockey management occasionally seeing what other teams are doing to be successful or a disaster can be a hint of what to do or not do.

 

Vancouver is on track to be the next Edmonton pressuring the youngest players, players with less than 120 NHL games to be the cornerstones and take the blame for not winning. It is all on Pettersson and Boeser to score in order to win.

 

Giving up a first round pick to a capped out team desperate to shed salary so they can sign a better player and worse to include what many scouts think is the best draft year in 2+ decades and then say, hey let's throw an additional pick as well, a trade made in an enemy's basement no doubt, could not have been worse especially because there were MANY other players that the team could have approached for the same money without the loss of draft picks. Tampa should have been including their 1rst to help shed salary many other teams have done just that.

What was Tampa rapping? Which rapper did they use?

Go JB go JB, you will soon have the best team I see.