canuck73_3 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Not even for LE? That is not a realistic trade so it's irrelevant 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 4 hours ago, theo5789 said: Bo Horvat is currently a career -50. Not saying Drouin is anywhere near Bo, but that's a meaningless stat. It's a meaningless stat when it's used out of context - as you are here - as if there is anything comparable about the situations Horvat and Drouin play in. We all know what kind of minutes Horvat tends to play. Drouin is a career 56.7% ozone starts. It's easy to explain away high minus outcomes for players that play matchup/shutdown/hard minutes with primarily dzone starts, but guys that consistently get rekt 5 on 5 with opportune deployment (and tailored for production) = not so easy to overlook. Moreover, Drouin - whose production is not all that impressive in context - also tends to feed/inflate his numbers on the powerplay. His last year in Tampa 26 of his 53 pts were on the pp, 22 of 46 in his first year in Montreal, 16 pp pts last season represents probably the best 5 on 5 season of his career thus far. Still as a one-way converted to winger who never really had the kind of game to cut it as an NHL center, I see no real point in acquriing his - or his ego problems - when this team has no shortage of talented wingers at this point - and another wave in the system. Hard no to any interest in this guy / not what this team needs (it just made moves to balance the forward group - Drouin would be a move back in the wrong direction). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, oldnews said: It's a meaningless stat when it's used out of context - as you are here - as if there is anything comparable about the situations Horvat and Drouin play in. We all know what kind of minutes Horvat tends to play. Drouin is a career 56.7% ozone starts. It's easy to explain away high minus outcomes for players that play matchup/shutdown/hard minutes with primarily dzone starts, but guys that consistently get rekt 5 on 5 with opportune deployment (and tailored for production) = not so easy to overlook. Moreover, Drouin - whose production is not all that impressive in context - also tends to feed/inflate his numbers on the powerplay. His last year in Tampa 26 of his 53 pts were on the pp, 22 of 46 in his first year in Montreal, 16 pp pts last season represents probably the best 5 on 5 season of his career thus far. Still as a one-way converted to winger who never really had the kind of game to cut it as an NHL center, I see no real point in acquriing his - or his ego problems - when this team has no shortage of talented wingers at this point - and another wave in the system. Hard no to any interest in this guy / not what this team needs (it just made moves to balance the forward group - Drouin would be a move back in the wrong direction). I haven't advocated acquiring him at all costs. I made a proposal/suggestion earlier to try and rid ourselves of an extra forward and get a guy that has produced more amongst our group. We clearly are still looking for some offensive talent which is why we continue to try and groom Goldy. My proposal had involved LE in which we are paying him to produce offense (on top of his defensive play), but we would swap for a guy that does produce. As for defensively, there's no denying he's lacking there, but when we acquired Baertschi, he was quite horrible defensively and physically, so we would obviously work with Drouin here in a similar fashion, but getting a guy with a top 6 offensive pedigree already. I was never sold on him as a center ever. I was surprised Montreal thought he would be. We wouldn't be acquiring to be a center, just as a guy that could fill in if needed. Personally I think Drouin could fit in nicely beside Horvat and Miller. I, by no means, believe he's an absolute must acquire, but I also don't think he's as bad as some are portraying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said: That is not a realistic trade so it's irrelevant Some seem to be opposed to it straight up. I proposed Drouin and Alzner for LE, Sutter, Leivo + a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 6 hours ago, timberz21 said: Don't know where you heard that, but I highly doubt it. I often listen to MTL radio shows and broadcast and never heard his name. He has been one of the few steady player the past few years, I don't know why they would get rid of him. He's also the perfect player for Julien's style. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me but I seem to recall seeing it on Twitter. It didn't sound like he was actively being shopped. I definitely recall seeing his name standout however because I remember thinking that he seemed like one of the last guys the team would be looking to part with. He's been a solid contributor to the Habs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 4 hours ago, theo5789 said: Some seem to be opposed to it straight up. I proposed Drouin and Alzner for LE, Sutter, Leivo + a pick. Gross, no thanks. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Gross, no thanks. Fair enough, your opinion. I'd be fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: Fair enough, your opinion. I'd be fine with it. Drouin is too soft and we have enough soft players as is. Alzner is even more useless than Eriksson even if his contract ends sooner still not worth moving 2 and a half serviceable players for Drouin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Mo Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 8 hours ago, theo5789 said: Not even for LE? and if you are the Montreal GM and make that trade you would be fired the very next minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 On 9/26/2019 at 3:54 PM, rekker said: A healthy Baer could be every bit as good as Drouin. I would rather take our chances and see if Baer can stay healthy. Yup. Drouin is a little more skilled but Baertschi makes up for it in character and has the better contract. Drouin just isn't a fit for us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, theo5789 said: Some seem to be opposed to it straight up. I proposed Drouin and Alzner for LE, Sutter, Leivo + a pick. Alzner is beyond worthless. Eriksson can at least play. Sutter has two years on his deal. Still great value in a trade where we retain cap, if we choose to trade him. This proposal is pretty bad for us. Drouin has character issues and is horrendous defensively, Alzner is an anchor. Edited September 28, 2019 by N7Nucks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 4 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Drouin is too soft and we have enough soft players as is. Alzner is even more useless than Eriksson even if his contract ends sooner still not worth moving 2 and a half serviceable players for Drouin. I don't think Drouin is any softer than a player like Baertschi. Certainly no Goldobin. Alzner is to counter some of the cap and he would be less of a hit on our cap to bury. LE is serviceable but not at the cap. Sutter could be replaced by Gaudette (not in terms of the being the same player, but just as another center) and he would be cheaper as well. Leivo only had 0.4 hits per game last season with us and 18 points in 49 games. I like him, but he's replaceable depth with someone like MacEwen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 9 hours ago, theo5789 said: Some seem to be opposed to it straight up. I proposed Drouin and Alzner for LE, Sutter, Leivo + a pick. There is literally nothing in your proposal that would appeal to Montreal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Alzner is beyond worthless. Eriksson can at least play. Sutter has two years on his deal. Still great value in a trade where we retain cap, if we choose to trade him. This proposal is pretty bad for us. Drouin has character issues and is horrendous defensively, Alzner is an anchor. There is no value to Alzner here beyond balancing some of the cap. He's being buried in the minors and has a lesser cap hit than say if we did try to bury LE. A bit of a longshot, but everyone wrote off Schenn when we acquired him as a throw in and we all know how that turned out. Eriksson can play, but we can all agree he's not worth his cap. Let's say LE is actually worth half his cap, so we are wasting 3 million on him. Alzner would only effect our cap by 3 million while being buried. In turn we get what I believe to be a top 6 offensive player (what we hoped LE would be) and open up a spot for someone like Gaudette to step into. Sutter has value if he can stay healthy. Another injury plagued season and he becomes untradeable. IMO, Drouin is the best player in the deal considering his age and offense, but we do take on the worst player in the deal in Alzner. We give up two middling pieces and clear up an NHL spot (instead of waiving), a bit of cap and open up opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, qwijibo said: There is literally nothing in your proposal that would appeal to Montreal. This is a much more valid argument IMO than the Drouin is terrible ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, theo5789 said: This is a much more valid argument IMO than the Drouin is terrible ones. Drouin isn't terrible, on our roster he is redundant. He doesn't add anything we don't already have/potentially have. Not a fit for either team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 On 9/26/2019 at 5:39 PM, drummerboy said: Whole bunch of people sh!t talking this kid, but if he was a Canucks prospect, we’d be stoked on a young consistent 50 point player. How many 50 point wingers do we have? Enough to fill a top 6? We just don't need a soft little dude winger though imo. We have some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Drouin isn't terrible, on our roster he is redundant. He doesn't add anything we don't already have/potentially have. Not a fit for either team. Right now our top-6 is: Ferland-Pettersson-Boeser Pearson/Baertchi-Horvat-Miller If you replace the 2nd line LW with Drouin, I feel this improves the overall quality and skill of the team's top 6. Not saying we should trade for him, but I think we are not in a position that would be make him redundant on our roster. I also think when Drouin initially got drafted (and when Montreal made the trade for him in 2016), he was seen as a potential 1st line center who you can build a team around. This ship has sailed, and we know he isn't that #1 guy. However, I think if he comes to a place like Vancouver, where we already have some really good/elite players in the top 6 in Petterson, Boeser, Horvat, Miller and Ferland etc. Drouin can come in and just be one of the guys and he doesn't have to be counted on for everything and it could actually benefit him playing in more of a secondary role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Drouin isn't terrible, on our roster he is redundant. He doesn't add anything we don't already have/potentially have. Not a fit for either team. 50+ point winger? He's an upgrade on the Goldobins and Baertschis. He would simply make them redundant. Of course it'll depend on the cost to acquire, but not being able to find a trade that works is completely different than the "hard pass" stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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