NHL players vote 3 worst road cities

[Canuck Surfer]

Here is also the cruxt of all such debates IMO.

 

That hospital you mentioned is probably in Buffalo, not Guelph? Like a trading port in the St Lawrence on location.  I would not be the least bit shocked, if 60 or 70 % of it's clientele were from S Ontario. Overall tax burdens are about 20% less. Doctors can make more money. There is also less regulation, more treatments available because on the back of scale.  

3 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Funny you mention that.  I'm wondering how Canada's system and others like it are going to handle the newly emerging personally customized gene therapies that can cure conditions that were once thought to be incurable.

 

Right now they easily cost 7 figures a pop.  It's not like with drugs where you can force companies to sell to you cheaper since they are making a single one-size-fits-all product.  Gene therapies right now are customized to individuals.

Mentioned in a different context a page or so back.

 

A public ally funded system cannot over divert funds to any one treatment that only benefits a limited amount of sick people. Let 100 get sick, to save one where there is an expensive treatment? That sorta debate.  There is always a loser in prioritization.

[JM_]

Just now, SabreFan1 said:

Ah, cool.  Thanks for the link.  I wonder what's going to happen when they or another program like it runs afoul of a US company's patent on a specific treatment.  Who will Ottawa side with?  Will they fight the US gov't and "pirate" the patent for the good of it's citizenry or will Ottawa bow to Washington's pressure?

thats going to be a toughie... I suspect we'll make you sue us  

 

a lot will depend on new NAFTA, if that ever gets ratified. Supposedly this kind of thing is part of it somehow, but we'll see. BC Cancer Agency has a pretty impressive R&D group so they can probably find a work around or work off public research as well. 

[SabreFan1]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Here is also the cruxt of all such debates IMO.

 

That hospital you mentioned is probably in Buffalo, not Guelph? Like a trading port in the St Lawrence on location.  I would not be the least bit shocked, if 60 or 70 % of it's clientele were from S Ontario. Overall tax burdens are about 20% less. Doctors can make more money. There is also less regulation, more treatments available because on the back of scale.  

Mentioned in a different context a page or so back.

Of course it's in Buffalo.  I've been saying for the last couple hours that where you live has a huge impact on your care.  I even mentioned how it's not always statewide, it's even regionalized for large states like NY.  I have access to better care (especially emergency care) than some people who are only a 45 minute drive away.

 

Quote

A public ally funded system cannot over divert funds to any one treatment that only benefits a limited amount of sick people. Let 100 get sick, to save one where there is an expensive treatment? That sorta debate.  There is always a loser in prioritization.

No doubt, but sooner or later there will be a public outcry as these treatments become more used here in the United States.

 

Also, you mean "publicly" not "public ally".

Edited November 7, 2019 by SabreFan1

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Also, you mean "publicly" not "public ally".

My mum was an English teacher. Who'd a thought?

[SabreFan1]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats going to be a toughie... I suspect we'll make you sue us  

 

a lot will depend on new NAFTA, if that ever gets ratified. Supposedly this kind of thing is part of it somehow, but we'll see. BC Cancer Agency has a pretty impressive R&D group so they can probably find a work around or work off public research as well. 

Canada can brush off and/or minimize lawsuits, but if we get a hardcore Republican in the White House, it could become contentious and costly for Canada to resist.

 

the "new" NAFTA is mostly the same as the old one and the Democrats have all but killed it.  Once Trump is gone, so is that bill.

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

^ this is just so incorrect Alf. Sure some people choose to go to the US. Some provinces even choose it occasionally depending on the case (SK e.g., often sends people to the Mayo Clinic). But to say we have a 'failed system' is ignoring our actual health outcomes as a country. 

 

Of course you can find one-off stories. But on the whole we have one of the best systems in the world. You'll notice I didn't say perfect. 

 

I'll agree on the bloated bureaucracy part, there's too many health authorities. 

The bloated bureaucracy is responsible for the data stating the condition of our system.  For them to be honest would mean cutting their own jobs.  Any data about the effectiveness of our system is clearly propaganda.   Our system is broken.  Public healthcare is a sham.  We need private healthcare, so those who work hard get the benefit of their hard work.  

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/time-is-dangerously-running-out-for-canadas-unhealthy-uncaring-health-care-system

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/william-watson-why-canadas-best-health-care-system-just-got-ranked-last-again

 

[lmm]

7 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

 

Remember when the Grizzlies were here? "Man I can't get any soulfood here."  Or the dude that says he couldn't get Captain Crunch when in fact that cereal was available at every grocery store.

Captain Crunch sounds like drug lingo, are you sure he was talking about the cereal?

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Oh yeah, back on topic.

 

Buffalo sulks! 

 

Edmonton?  I lived there for 4 years. I have to admit was not fond of it.  Winnipeg?  I grew up there. The lakes are further out of town than @D-Money suggests. An hour is about the closest drive from the Northern suburbs, Grand beach. But its a grassland beach. A few birch tree's and not much to see. Cold grey water. The pretty lakes are East, out of the prairies and into the Canadian Shield. 1 hour 45 minutes to West Hawk by memory, 2 hours Lake of the Woods? So pretty.     

 

Although you can surf a swarm of mosquito's at high speed. And every 50 years, the whole of southern Manitoba becomes an inland lake;

That 2knd pic, 1st house on the right sure looks like my 1st house on Young St, a block from the U of W. Same neighborhood anyway. In the 90's it flooded & wrecked my basement.

 

On the plus side you could Canoe back to Hudson Bay store, get supplies about 6 blocks South. 

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

The bloated bureaucracy is responsible for the data stating the condition of our system.  For them to be honest would mean cutting their own jobs.  Any data about the effectiveness of our system is clearly propaganda.   Our system is broken.  Public healthcare is a sham.  We need private healthcare, so those who work hard get the benefit of their hard work.  

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/time-is-dangerously-running-out-for-canadas-unhealthy-uncaring-health-care-system

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/william-watson-why-canadas-best-health-care-system-just-got-ranked-last-again

 

nope, I'm not going to let you off the hook that easy. You can't back up that claim at all, thats not how our health data is generated. There is no conspiracy to fudge the numbers. 

 

Our system isn't broken, it just needs a diet. There's a glut of management that can be drastically trimmed and we need some new methods of delivering front line care in smarter ways, such as not letting people stuff the ERs full when they just have a cold. But you don't throw away decades of system building for a private system that is designed to bankrupt you when you get sick. 

 

Private healthcare like you're suggesting benefits the rich and screws the masses, which is exactly what you claim is wrong with our current system. 

 

If you're really interested in how Canada gets its data check this out: https://www.cihi.ca/en

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

nope, I'm not going to let you off the hook that easy. You can't back up that claim at all, thats not how our health data is generated. There is no conspiracy to fudge the numbers. 

 

Our system isn't broken, it just needs a diet. There's a glut of management that can be drastically trimmed and we need some new methods of delivering front line care in smarter ways, such as not letting people stuff the ERs full when they just have a cold. But you don't throw away decades of system building for a private system that is designed to bankrupt you when you get sick. 

 

Private healthcare like you're suggesting benefits the rich and screws the masses, which is exactly what you claim is wrong with our current system. 

It’s management who are the bloated problem.  We both agree on that.  Our front line professionals are great.  Public systems are proven to be less streamlined than private sector.  Socialism doesn’t work.  

I like hooks.  I was in the front row and hooked.  My ears are the proof.  Oh, and surgery to fix my ears was in the US.  It was considered cosmetic by the bureaucrats up here. 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s management who are the bloated problem.  We both agree on that.  Our front line professionals are great.  Public systems are proven to be less streamlined than private sector.  Socialism doesn’t work.  

I like hooks.  I was in the front row and hooked.  My ears are the proof.  Oh, and surgery to fix my ears was in the US.  It was considered cosmetic by the bureaucrats up here. 

thats not true either, when it comes to health systems private is not more efficient (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3378609/). You're forgetting about the massive insurance system in the US that takes its 1/3. 

 

What happened to your ears? 

[BlueDragon23]

Not surprised to see Edmonton there. 
 

But where the &@$k is Arizona? Is it just because it’s hot and sunny all the time?  It’s literally a desert. Cactuses, sand, and the occasional tumbleweed. Although, I Haven’t been there lots so maybe I just don’t know it well enough.  

Hockey is a winter sport, so why are players picking on cold cities like Peg and Buffalo?

Oh boohoo, you’re in a cold city for a day. Suck it up.

[Kragar]

On 11/6/2019 at 2:14 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

Someone else mentioned, US bankruptcies from health costs patients could not pay?  

FYI, the 2/3rds statistic is misleading, to the extent that the surveying is not out of 100%.  Sure, 66% of people cite medical issues as a factor in bankruptcy, but the following are also part of the survey:

- 45% for mortgage foreclosure

- 44% living beyond their means

- 28% helping friends/relatives

- 25% student loans

- 24% divorce

 

That's 232% so far, and I'm sure there are other smaller factors given that weren't listed.  So, while 2/3rds of people name medical issues as a factor, it can easily be in conjunction with one or more other factors.  Also, included in the "medical issues" category is time lost from work, which is also a significant factor (third highest, IIRC) in Canadian bankruptcies, so Universal Care is not enough to keep one out of the poor-house.

 

(I have seen this list elsewhere in the past, but here is a version: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html)

 

Another factor with our occasional huge medical bills even for those of us who have insurance is where the hospital engages a caregiver who is out-of-network on your behalf.  So, some specialist, who you did not request or approve beforehand, assists in the treatment and you get billed full-price for their services.  There are some laws in the works to help prevent this, but it will take some time before everyone is suitably protected from this scam.  This really needs addressing, IMO, especially if this is being done deliberately.

 

There are many problems with the US health system, but a good number of them can be fixed if lawmakers will work to prevent the corruption (insane lawsuits, drug costs, the above billing scam, etc.) .  Can the same be said for the Canadian (or British, or...) system that fully depends on taxes and rationing service?  

[Kragar]

23 hours ago, BlueDragon23 said:

Not surprised to see Edmonton there. 
 

But where the &@$k is Arizona? Is it just because it’s hot and sunny all the time?  It’s literally a desert. Cactuses, sand, and the occasional tumbleweed. Although, I Haven’t been there lots so maybe I just don’t know it well enough.  

Hockey is a winter sport, so why are players picking on cold cities like Peg and Buffalo?

Oh boohoo, you’re in a cold city for a day. Suck it up.

I was just in Arizona for vacation.  Mostly in the north (beautiful), but also in Phoenix.  The whole state is too fricken dry for me.  I'll be back to visit, but it down the list of retirement destinations for me.  Buddy of mine loves it in Phoenix, though, while others we talked to say it is boring.  I wasn't in Phoenix long enough to have an opinion, but I wasn't considering it as a place to live.  At least up north they have forests and even some snow along with the milder temps.

[Standing_Tall#37]

On 11/6/2019 at 5:51 PM, BlueDragon23 said:

Not surprised to see Edmonton there. 
 

But where the &@$k is Arizona? Is it just because it’s hot and sunny all the time?  It’s literally a desert. Cactuses, sand, and the occasional tumbleweed. Although, I Haven’t been there lots so maybe I just don’t know it well enough.  

Hockey is a winter sport, so why are players picking on cold cities like Peg and Buffalo?

Oh boohoo, you’re in a cold city for a day. Suck it up.

Exactly. At least the cold keeps a lot of the bad bad people out of those cities.

[Gnarcore]

On 11/6/2019 at 10:46 AM, RUPERTKBD said:

Raleigh? No. But I think the key here is "Winter". Unfortunately, hockey is played during the winter, so places that are cold are always going to get  the bad rap. From what I see, it's small cold cities that are the lowest rated....

 

....and in other news, grass is green....

Edmonton and Buffalo suck all year long. 

[Gnarcore]

On 11/6/2019 at 5:51 PM, BlueDragon23 said:

Not surprised to see Edmonton there. 
 

But where the &@$k is Arizona? Is it just because it’s hot and sunny all the time?  It’s literally a desert. Cactuses, sand, and the occasional tumbleweed. Although, I Haven’t been there lots so maybe I just don’t know it well enough.  

Hockey is a winter sport, so why are players picking on cold cities like Peg and Buffalo?

Oh boohoo, you’re in a cold city for a day. Suck it up.

Amazing golf and weather to do things all year. 

[awalk]

Not a surprise in the slightest. 

[apollo]

On 11/6/2019 at 6:30 AM, Drakrami said:

Would rather sign in Russia than Winnipeg, really? 

 

Players on the Jets team look happy enough.

Personally I'd be fine with any of the 7 Canadian teams... but lets say Buffalo is my contract and it's a 2 way deal... I wouldn't be opposed to going to a KHL team for a year for the experience.

 

 

Well I guess if we're going hypothetical, then I'd actually accept that 2 way deal from Buffalo, and do everything it takes to play better, then once im good, demand a trade to Vancouver :D

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

I would have thought the 3 worst cities would have been

 

1) Winnipeg

2)Calgary

3)Edmonton

 

But thats just because i enjoy summer,  outdoor activities..., and good looking women......