[Proposal] Virtanen to Montreal

[D-Money]

There are rumours going around that Jake Virtanen has requested a trade. And even if that weren’t true, Canucks might not have the cap space to keep him regardless.

 

With Jake having arbitration rights, and there being a league-wide cap crunch, his trade value likely isn’t as high as many of us would hope. A lot of teams won’t have cap room to add him either, and those that do will probably be shopping to find UFAs for cheap in free agency.

 

But one team that has cap room, and might have a lot of interest, are the Montreal Canadiens. Jake fits exactly what they need: 

 

The Habs have also had difficulty attracting UFAs in the past. They probably won’t wait until free agency to do all of their tinkering, if the right deal comes their way. They have lots of picks, and project to have close to $20M in cap space to play with next season. Virtanen will slot in as a top-6 RW, and has proven that he can handle a lot of public attention (Shotgun Jake!), which is part of the package for playing in Montreal.

Here’s what I am thinking...

To MTL: Jake Virtanen + Sven Baertschi

To VAN: 2nd round pick + Jake Evans

 

Montreal has three 2nd round picks (their own, CHI & STL), we currently don’t pick till the 3rd round. The inclusion of Baertschi adds a lot of value for us. It’s not completely impossible that he might stick in Montreal either, as they really need scoring wingers - but with his cap hit he has definite negative value. Jake Evans is a decent center prospect who is still ineligible for waivers, who has been fairly solid in his first 19 NHL games. Considering our lack of center depth (we have no natural centers signed for next year other than the ones on our current roster), he’d be a nice addition for depth.

 

Once again, this return may seem low for a young 20-goal winger. But given the circumstances (cap crunch, arbitration rights, healthy scratch to start playoffs, etc.), it might be the best deal we can get.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by D-Money

[Nuxfanabroad]

It's a solid proposal. You've outlined the reasons for both sides.

 

Don't know if the two GM's see eye to eye. Have they done biz since Bergevin's public tears(Subban drama)?

 

Hopefully Jake goes on a bit of a tear, to up his value. If this were offered at this point, I'd mull it over pretty hard. For me it'd depend upon how many other moves we can manage. Would like it if they can sort the cap-squeeze through 2 or 3 such deals.

[Ghostsof1915]

Evans does not fit. The team will not go smaller. If anything we'd want a big defenceman. 

St. Louis and Vegas has shown we need size, and speed. 

[timberz21]

Pretty sure MTL is high on Evans.  Did a really good first impression and Julien was not afraid to use him either.  He's kind of their Adam Gaudette.

 

And I don't think Vancouver wants to use Jake to get a pick and a young player.  If anything the Canucks would use Jake to improve somewhere else and get some experienced player back, preferably on the back end.  I don't think Jake will be use to shed cap space...there are other options for that.  Robbie Fabbri just signed for 2.95 millions and he has basically the same age, same amount of points and goals than Virtanen with 50+ games less players.  Can't imagine Virtanen think he can reasonnably get more than 3M$.   2.25M-2.75M$ should be his range for a 2-3 years deal.

 

I think both team declindes.

Edited August 25, 2020 by timberz21

[mll]

Baertschi and Virtanen could combine for 5-6M.  Montreal might probably prefer using those 5-6M to get a higher impact player.  

 

Virtanen on his own could have some trade value but in a flat cap world probably not enough to be used to dump a bad contract. Combining the cap hits and it's probably possible to get a far better player at the same cost.  

 

It's a flat cap and some teams might even be imposed an internal cap.  There could be some unexpected names available.

[qwijibo]

Montreal needs actual top six wingers. Virtanen is another tweener.  Something they have plenty of.  Baertschi’s value has never been lower.  With the cap going flat it will cost a lot to dump his salary.  Evans has looked good in his first several games in Montreal. He’s defensively responsible (which is important to Therien). 

Take Baertschi out of the deal and 

Montreal may have a bit of interest in Virtanen (he fits in with their team speed), but not for a 2nd AND Evans.  

[Baer.]

Baertschi has negative trade value I don't think any team is taking him unless Canucks give a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Cap is stagnant and last thing teams want is taking on more cap... especially for a guy who can barely crack an NHL roster at this point because of his injury issues.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Baer.

[Tyndall2]

I agree with several posters about needing back end help.  Tanev and Edler have become traffic cones of late.  Yes, they block more shots than most but they can't move the puck out of their own end with any regularity.  When caught at the offensive blue line 90% of the league's forwards can out race them to the puck.  So many of Edler's dumb penalties are when he is beat and he interferes or trips the opposing player who is screaming buy him after the loose puck.  Time to look for some youth, size and speed for the back end.  And someone who isn't afraid to answer the bell and defend his felllow teammates.  

[Ilya Mikheyev]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

Pretty sure MTL is high on Evans.  Did a really good first impression and Julien was not afraid to use him either.  He's kind of their Adam Gaudette.

 

And I don't think Vancouver wants to use Jake to get a pick and a young player.  If anything the Canucks would use Jake to improve somewhere else and get some experienced player back, preferably on the back end.  I don't think Jake will be use to shed cap space...there are other options for that.  Robbie Fabbri just signed for 2.95 millions and he has basically the same age, same amount of points and goals than Virtanen with 50+ games less players.  Can't imagine Virtanen think he can reasonnably get more than 3M$.   2.25M-2.75M$ should be his range for a 2-3 years deal.

 

I think both team declindes.

I pretty much agree with this assessment.

 

I don't think Virt will be traded for a gamble at this point-I think the Canucks would rather gamble on him.

 

Value-wise I don't think the proposal is that far off from being realistic, but needs-wise I don't think it quite works for either team. Saying that, it would be a little different if there's any truth to Virt requesting a trade.

 

I also think the Kasperi Kapanen trade today will show how much Jake's worth - similar #s, draft year, position.

[D-Money]

12 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Baertschi has negative trade value I don't think any team is taking him unless Canucks give a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Cap is stagnant and last thing teams want is taking on more cap... especially for a guy who can barely crack an NHL roster at this point because of his injury issues.

I agree. But I think that Virtanen is worth considerably more than a 2nd round pick. So think of the value as two 2nds and a young depth player.

 

46 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Evans has looked good in his first several games in Montreal. He’s defensively responsible (which is important to Therien). 

Maybe I’m missing something, but Evans seems like a guy who was only playing because of injuries, and Montreal selling at the deadline. I think he may struggle to have a spot next year, especially if Montreal adds (as they intend to).

 

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

Pretty sure MTL is high on Evans.  Did a really good first impression and Julien was not afraid to use him either.  He's kind of their Adam Gaudette.

Evans has not produced as much as Gaudette, at any level. Not nearly the upside, I’d guess bottom-6 depth guy at most. 
 

But if I’m wrong about Evans, he’s not really the important piece here. You could switch him with another young depth C...maybe Vejdemo?

[qwijibo]

5 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I agree. But I think that Virtanen is worth considerably more than a 2nd round pick. So think of the value as two 2nds and a young depth player.

 

Maybe I’m missing something, but Evans seems like a guy who was only playing because of injuries, and Montreal selling at the deadline. I think he may struggle to have a spot next year, especially if Montreal adds (as they intend to).

 

Evans has not produced as much as Gaudette, at any level. Not nearly the upside, I’d guess bottom-6 depth guy at most. 
 

But if I’m wrong about Evans, he’s not really the important piece here. You could switch him with another young depth C...maybe Vejdemo?

I think you’re glossing over how much cap space is going to be worth for the next 3 seasons. Montreal  isn’t going to waste $5+m on Virtanen and Baertschi and give up a second and a decent bottom 6 player to do it. 
 

also. Montreal needs a legit scoring top 6 winger.  That’s not Virtanen. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by qwijibo

[86Viking]

Just send them Jake and ask for 2 2nd rounders?

[#Canucks]

How about we don’t trade Jake. It would be a mistake.

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

How about we don’t trade Jake. It would be a mistake.

Virtanen May be worth that. But he doesn’t fit Montreal’s needs so I doubt they’d be the team to pay that 

[Curmudgeon]

6 hours ago, D-Money said:

There are rumours going around that Jake Virtanen has requested a trade.

Source?

[86Viking]

13 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Source?

I can see why he would want a trade if true. He has the package but doesn't put it together long enough or do what this coach wants to earn more ice time consistantly.

 

I would move him over paying him more if he is stuck in a bottom 6 role. Still think we should let him have a good shot at top 6 minutes next year and assess what he can do. I also would move Virtanen onto PP1 and use him as the net front presence, I would then move Boeser onto PP2 to add some fire power and skill to the 2nd unit.

 

Virtanen to Nashville?

 

Virtanen

 

for

 

Watson- energy player who has some size 6'4 and is willing to fight. Has 3yr @ 1.5m cap hit

NJ or Nash 2nd round pick 2020

 

Would be curious what Nashville would be willing to retain or give up to move Turris, he has 4 yrs left @ 6m but doesn't have any NTC protection. Could we acquire him, if he has a decent year maybe Seattle takes him in the expansion draft? We send LE back who only has 2yrs left, long term savings for Nashville

[Dixon Ward]

3 hours ago, Tyndall2 said:

I agree with several posters about needing back end help.  Tanev and Edler have become traffic cones of late.  Yes, they block more shots than most but they can't move the puck out of their own end with any regularity.  When caught at the offensive blue line 90% of the league's forwards can out race them to the puck.  So many of Edler's dumb penalties are when he is beat and he interferes or trips the opposing player who is screaming buy him after the loose puck.  Time to look for some youth, size and speed for the back end.  And someone who isn't afraid to answer the bell and defend his felllow teammates.  

I would agree that Edler hasn't looked his best at times but is still really reliable. 2 of those tripping penalties were weak calls that we don't get.  I think you are miles off on Tanev, imho he is our unsung hero in these playoffs and has been skating great, defending great and getting the puck moving well.

[D-Money]

For what it’s worth, I found this article from a Habs fan’s site proposing going after Virtanen as well:

 

https://awinninghabit.com/2020/07/14/montreal-canadiens-cap-deal-vancouver-canucks/

 

The article suggests taking Virtanen and Sutter, with sending virtually nothing back, with Baertschi as a plan B. Some interesting points:

 

- Montreal did a similar trade to get Joel Armia from Winnipeg.

- The writer thought Sutter would be useful to challenge Evans for the 4th line center role.

Edited August 25, 2020 by D-Money

[Phil_314]

5 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Evans does not fit. The team will not go smaller. If anything we'd want a big defenceman. 

St. Louis and Vegas has shown we need size, and speed. 

6'1" doesn't seem too small plus hopefully he can fill out?  Admittedly I haven't seen the guy play but should be value if a GM likes the kid and puts a 7th rounder in the lineup.  We'd need guys like this if we're going to move on from Sutter and Beagle's price tags too.

If Juulsen could somehow be part of the deal though, that would be great.  @qwijibo sign and trade for Pearson+?
 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Phil_314

[qwijibo]

43 minutes ago, D-Money said:

For what it’s worth, I found this article from a Habs fan’s site proposing going after Virtanen as well:

 

https://awinninghabit.com/2020/07/14/montreal-canadiens-cap-deal-vancouver-canucks/

 

The article suggests taking Virtanen and Sutter, with sending virtually nothing back, with Baertschi as a plan B. Some interesting points:

 

- Montreal did a similar trade to get Joel Armia from Winnipeg.

- The writer thought Sutter would be useful to challenge Evans for the 4th line center role.

Honestly the article seems more about how much it would help Vancouver.  It was also written prior to return to play.  The playoffs were pretty telling and revealed how good Suzuki and Kotkaniemi could end up being. It also showed that Evans is more than capable of handling the 4C spot.  It also shone a light on Montreal’s need for a legit top 6 scoring winger.  Neither Virtanen  nor Pearson are the piece they need.