[Signing] Canucks sign Braden Holtby

[aGENT]

For those fretting over the Markstrom-Holtby 'downgrade', odds makers have him with a higher shot at the Vezina:

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/amp/canucks-hockey/oddsmakers-give-braden-holtby-better-odds-to-win-the-2021-vezina-than-jacob-markstrom-2887609

 

[ruilin96]

37 minutes ago, aGENT said:

For those fretting over the Markstrom-Holtby 'downgrade', odds makers have him with a higher shot at the Vezina:

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/amp/canucks-hockey/oddsmakers-give-braden-holtby-better-odds-to-win-the-2021-vezina-than-jacob-markstrom-2887609

 

I am optimistic about the goaltending tandem. I am also looking forward to see the team transition the puck out of their zone better with the addition of Schmidt and hopefully Juolevi gets the 3rd pair LD position.

 

I am just upset about the cap situation. JB could've dumped one of Sutter/Beagle/Roussel if he really wanted to (we all know Eriksson is unmovable and non one wants him) and use that money to bring back Toffoli or another UFA forward out there looking for a short-term deal to boost their stats. If JB is confident with the team's attack and wants to leave forward spots open for Podkolzin and Hoglander, then he could've used the money he freed up to bring back Troy from Richmond or if he wants to, he can upgrade that 3rd pairing RD position and bring in one of the available UFAs.

[nergish]

Nah, Markstrom is definitely a better goaltender today than Holtby.

But not by that much, and I really can't see Marky sustaining this level of play for too long.
He will be current-day Dubnyk in 2-3 seasons.

I also believe Demko is ready to pop and will be our starter almost immediately. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

I am optimistic about the goaltending tandem. I am also looking forward to see the team transition the puck out of their zone better with the addition of Schmidt and hopefully Juolevi gets the 3rd pair LD position.

 

I am just upset about the cap situation. JB could've dumped one of Sutter/Beagle/Roussel if he really wanted to (we all know Eriksson is unmovable and non one wants him) and use that money to bring back Toffoli or another UFA forward out there looking for a short-term deal to boost their stats. If JB is confident with the team's attack and wants to leave forward spots open for Podkolzin and Hoglander, then he could've used the money he freed up to bring back Troy from Richmond or if he wants to, he can upgrade that 3rd pairing RD position and bring in one of the available UFAs.

I think Benning would have, if players might have been a bit more patient (though I also understand why they weren't and that was entirely their prerogative).

 

I also think the price to do so, was likely QUITE high. And once those players moved on, there's little reason to pay those inflated prices. We can in fact make a roster, as is, and be cap compliant. So why lose additional assets at inflated prices now?

 

It's also good to look around the rest of the league and see that he's far from alone in that regard. Including a few teams who are in even worse predicaments with their cap/player retention.

[theo5789]

15 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

I am optimistic about the goaltending tandem. I am also looking forward to see the team transition the puck out of their zone better with the addition of Schmidt and hopefully Juolevi gets the 3rd pair LD position.

 

I am just upset about the cap situation. JB could've dumped one of Sutter/Beagle/Roussel if he really wanted to (we all know Eriksson is unmovable and non one wants him) and use that money to bring back Toffoli or another UFA forward out there looking for a short-term deal to boost their stats. If JB is confident with the team's attack and wants to leave forward spots open for Podkolzin and Hoglander, then he could've used the money he freed up to bring back Troy from Richmond or if he wants to, he can upgrade that 3rd pairing RD position and bring in one of the available UFAs.

Moving Sutter or Beagle would leave us a hole down the middle. We also didn't want to move assets to move these contracts. The reality is that it would've cost something to move them and it was on exasperated with the current pandemic. We got Schmidt for a 3rd round pick in 2022, I don't think it would be cheap to move out cap. If we did, then people will still gripe about how we are spending picks/prospects (hell we heard this when we acquired Toffoli in the first place).

 

At the end of the day, Sutter/Beagle/Roussel still provide value to our team (as we saw in the playoffs). I think Roussel will bounce back and have a better season now that he's healthy from his injury to start the year (his first season with us was exceptional value). Beagle is a key PK guy that is a faceoff beast. A healthy Sutter helps us more than retaining half of his cap (for the PK and development of Gaudette) and if he can't stay healthy, he goes on IR anyway. We still could potentially get a RD for cheap given the market (eg Hainsey, Hamonic, Koekkoek, etc).

 

Our cap situation isn't ideal, but it also isn't dire.

[ruilin96]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Moving Sutter or Beagle would leave us a hole down the middle. We also didn't want to move assets to move these contracts. The reality is that it would've cost something to move them and it was on exasperated with the current pandemic. We got Schmidt for a 3rd round pick in 2022, I don't think it would be cheap to move out cap. If we did, then people will still gripe about how we are spending picks/prospects (hell we heard this when we acquired Toffoli in the first place).

 

At the end of the day, Sutter/Beagle/Roussel still provide value to our team (as we saw in the playoffs). I think Roussel will bounce back and have a better season now that he's healthy from his injury to start the year (his first season with us was exceptional value). Beagle is a key PK guy that is a faceoff beast. A healthy Sutter helps us more than retaining half of his cap (for the PK and development of Gaudette) and if he can't stay healthy, he goes on IR anyway. We still could potentially get a RD for cheap given the market (eg Hainsey, Hamonic, Koekkoek, etc).

 

Our cap situation isn't ideal, but it also isn't dire.

I agree that the player I mentioned provide something to the team, and the playoffs shown that those guys were big part of how we got by Minnesota and St. Louis. However, my initial post suggests that we should move 1 of 3 not all 3. The cost to move all 3 would be too significant, but I doubt there isn't a team out there that is willing to take 1 of the 3. If we lose 1 of Beagle or Sutter, it is not the end of the world. There are depth forward we can sign for at league minimum to replace Beagle/Sutter, granted it will be a downgrade. Jayce Hawryluk, who we brought in could be a 4th line center if we end up moving 1 of Beagle/Sutter. Don't forget, we also have Adam Gaudette is also a natural center as well. I just think it would be better to take downgrade on the bottom 6 to complete our top 6 and make the top 6 a lethal one.

[theo5789]

2 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

I agree that the player I mentioned provide something to the team, and the playoffs shown that those guys were big part of how we got by Minnesota and St. Louis. However, my initial post suggests that we should move 1 of 3 not all 3. The cost to move all 3 would be too significant, but I doubt there isn't a team out there that is willing to take 1 of the 3. If we lose 1 of Beagle or Sutter, it is not the end of the world. There are depth forward we can sign for at league minimum to replace Beagle/Sutter, granted it will be a downgrade. Jayce Hawryluk, who we brought in could be a 4th line center if we end up moving 1 of Beagle/Sutter. Don't forget, we also have Adam Gaudette is also a natural center as well. I just think it would be better to take downgrade on the bottom 6 to complete our top 6 and make the top 6 a lethal one.

I wasn't suggesting we move all three either. Even one will cost us something significant, if not, then it would've been done already. Beagle was part of a shutdown line that we used in conjunction with the Horvat line and the reason why it's effective is because of his faceoff ability. Roussel has the extra year, plus he had a "down" season, so it probably wasn't going to be easy to move him. Sutter, dur to his injuries, was always going to be a tough move even with 50% retention. We could've bought him out, but clearly we value him in his PK/developmental role. Moving one of the 3 players likely doesn't net us back Toffoli and at the cost of downgrading the bottom 6 (we have plenty of internal/cheap options on wing that should get looks). We may be able to retain Stecher, but it's not like he's an irreplaceable piece, as I've mentioned a few names that could be had for cheap especially the longer we get into the offseason, so it's not a major loss here at the moment.

 

Hawryluk is an unknown right now and Gaudette is not strong on faceoffs and doesn't PK. Word is Gaudette is eyeing a top 6 wing role (he said so himself).

 

We just need to see if we can get a bottom pair RD (Benn could technically be that guy already), while in the meantime, we have massively upgraded our top 4 dmen and got arguably the 2nd best UFA goalie on the market. With the progression of Demko and the internal competition at wing (Virtanen may get a bigger shot, Gaudette as mentioned, MacEwen saw time with Bo last year, Motte could be experimented with, Roussel looked well with Bo in his first year here, maybe Hawryluk gets a chance with his 7 points in 11 games with Ottawa to end last season, Lind could surprise and we have Hoglander and Podkolzin in the near future), I think we will be fine.

 

So like I said, the cap isn't perfect, but it's manageable and we still have a pretty damn good team on paper right now.

[ruilin96]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

I think Benning would have, if players might have been a bit more patient (though I also understand why they weren't and that was entirely their prerogative).

 

I also think the price to do so, was likely QUITE high. And once those players moved on, there's little reason to pay those inflated prices. We can in fact make a roster, as is, and be cap compliant. So why lose additional assets at inflated prices now?

 

It's also good to look around the rest of the league and see that he's far from alone in that regard. Including a few teams who are in even worse predicaments with their cap/player retention.

Benning had weeks after we got eliminated to move off those contracts. Granted, most teams wants to wait until the end of the playoffs so all parties are involved before making any moves. If the Rangers were able to dump Marc Staal, there is no reason to believe we can't dump Sutter's contract. It is what it is, and I still think we will ice a decent team. The team would still be significantly better than any teams we iced from 2016-2019 seasons.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

Benning had weeks after we got eliminated to move off those contracts. Granted, most teams wants to wait until the end of the playoffs so all parties are involved before making any moves. If the Rangers were able to dump Marc Staal, there is no reason to believe we can't dump Sutter's contract. It is what it is, and I still think we will ice a decent team. The team would still be significantly better than any teams we iced from 2016-2019 seasons.

Can and should are not the same things.

 

And as noted in your/Theo's discussion, I'm not so sure we should have dumped Sutter anyway. We lack NHL level C depth at the moment and Gaudette has struggled to cement himself as 3C.

 

If anything, as much as I love the guy, Roussel as a winger (where we have by far our most depth, both current and prospect) was likely the go-to player in that regard. And he's still entirely useful. I don't blame Benning for balking at paying (heavily in likelihood) to move him.

[theo5789]

26 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

Benning had weeks after we got eliminated to move off those contracts. Granted, most teams wants to wait until the end of the playoffs so all parties are involved before making any moves. If the Rangers were able to dump Marc Staal, there is no reason to believe we can't dump Sutter's contract. It is what it is, and I still think we will ice a decent team. The team would still be significantly better than any teams we iced from 2016-2019 seasons.

Staal was moved with a 2021 2nd. We didn't have a 2021 2nd to give nor did we have a dman that they targetted. It takes two to tango and there weren't a lot of teams willing to take a cap dump. We can still use Sutter and we can certainly still use our future 2nd rounder (to keep Toffoli, we would've given up a 4th rounder as well). Columbus dumped cap and got nothing in return, so maybe they and other teams have self imposed caps as well which further limits the number of teams able to take on cap.

 

Look at what we paid for Schmidt. No one took Tyler Johnson for free. Teams were asking for an arm and a leg for Fleury on top of retention. It was much easier said than done to move out cap for not much gain, especially when we have young internal competition.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Me_]

A Cup-winning goaltender teaching a future Cup-winning goaltender how to win Cups.

 

The Canucks are going to hurt teams.

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Me_

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

15 hours ago, Me_ said:

A Cup-winning goaltender teaching a future Cup-winning goaltender how to win Cups.

 

The Canucks are going to hurt teams.

 

With Ian Clark at the helm Holtby should regain his amazing form.  I think goaltending will be the team’s strength yet again.  At first I was sad to lose Marky, but Holtby has had a better career to this point.  Especially in the playoffs.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

19 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Now the question is: how does this affect the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[King Heffy]

8 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Now the question is: how does this affect the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Not sure, but it signifies that the Flames are going to have to put a lot of work in to get Tkachuk over the border.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Funny looking back at this topic from what only 9 months ago, how happy and excited everyone was here