[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 4, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | SNP

[Nuxfanabroad]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

No shortage of irony in the fact that there are countless complaints in here about going with the younger players.

Demko - Hoglander - as opposed to re-signing Marky and Toffoli.

Make no mistake - regardless of cap - these would have been difficult decisions regardless - and as much as I love Markstrom and always have - I agree with the decision they made - and I think it was a domino one.   I'm never keen to rent players, but I suspect that was not the intention - and when cap reality changed for every team in the league, so did the market - and priorities.  

A lot of the noise from the same whiner contingent that never shuts up about signing veterans in a transition stage where they had no real youth push to fill roster spots...

Now they do - and the smarm ride the contradiction.

 

Anyhow - people here have been spoiled rotten that past couple seasons.

 

Young players came in  - and were uncharacteristically playing borderline flawless, error-free hockey.  That cannot be separated from either Green and his handle on players and systems, or the stabilizing veterans / foundation, they were playing with.

Evidently people here got used to those and formed expectations of them.   The reality right now is a bizarre set of circumstances that aren't particularly conducive to young teams.  At the same time, the bubble playoff format was - so take the 'good' with the 'bad'.

 

Now we're seeing some mortality out of players like EP, Hughes - and the team is struggling some nights.

'Foundation' guys like Beagle are centering the team's best line - and still people remain oblivious to the value of players like him - and the stability they have brought the past few years.  Sutter likewise.  Whine on about LE (or Baertschi....)   But without guys like Beagle, Sutter, Edler  early this season - this team gets killed night in night out.  Instead, they've idled/alternated at 6-7 - and remain in reasonable striking distance.

 

Like Cheech said during one of the off nights vs the Habs - there's been some contagion from the braincramps.  The same can be made of playing solid, simplified hockey - the type we've seen plenty of out of this team last year, and in intervals this, aside from a handful of bizarre, almost comedic outings vs the Habs.

Well said, ON..but you're playing the long-view. Not exactly what most folks ponder in this hectic, ADHD 21st C. Just hope the ones at the top have the patience to steer them through another 18 mos, or so. When the books are clean & kids a little more exp'd, this franchise will again be formidable.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Nuxfanabroad
mixed a disorder & Aussie rock band :^(

[-Vintage Canuck-]

REFEREES
	Kevin Pollock #33			Chris Schlenker #3
Games ’20-21	9			9
Games ’19-20 (Reg/PO)	62 / 6			64 / 0
Career Games (Reg/PO)	1374 / 205			184 / 0
First NHL Game	3/28/00			10/24/16
Birthplace	Kincardine, ON			Medicine Hat, AB

LINESMEN
	Steve Barton #59			Mark Shewchyk #92
Games ’20-21	8			8
Games ’19-20 (Reg/PO)	63 / 18			63 / 14
Career Games (Reg/PO)	1276 / 107			1146 / 59
First NHL Game	11/1/00			10/9/03
Birthplace	Vankleek Hill, ON			Waterdown, ON

[appleboy]

12 minutes ago, oldnews said:

No shortage of irony in the fact that there are countless complaints in here about going with the younger players.

Demko - Hoglander - as opposed to re-signing Marky and Toffoli.

Make no mistake - regardless of cap - these would have been difficult decisions regardless - and as much as I love Markstrom and always have - I agree with the decision they made - and I think it was a domino one.   I'm never keen to rent players, but I suspect that was not the intention - and when cap reality changed for every team in the league, so did the market - and priorities.  

A lot of the noise from the same whiner contingent that never shuts up about signing veterans in a transition stage where they had no real youth push to fill roster spots...

Now they do - and the smarm ride the contradiction.

 

Anyhow - people here have been spoiled rotten that past couple seasons.

 

Young players came in  - and were uncharacteristically playing borderline flawless, error-free hockey.  That cannot be separated from either Green and his handle on players and systems, or the stabilizing veterans / foundation, they were playing with.

Evidently people here got used to those and formed expectations of them.   The reality right now is a bizarre set of circumstances that aren't particularly conducive to young teams.  At the same time, the bubble playoff format was - so take the 'good' with the 'bad'.

 

Now we're seeing some mortality out of players like EP, Hughes - and the team is struggling some nights.

'Foundation' guys like Beagle are centering the team's best line - and still people remain oblivious to the value of players like him - and the stability they have brought the past few years.  Sutter likewise.  Whine on about LE (or Baertschi....)   But without guys like Beagle, Sutter, Edler  early this season - this team gets killed night in night out.  Instead, they've idled/alternated at 6-7 - and remain in reasonable striking distance.

 

Like Cheech said during one of the off nights vs the Habs - there's been some contagion from the braincramps.  The same can be made of playing solid, simplified hockey - the type we've seen plenty of out of this team last year, and in intervals this, aside from a handful of bizarre, almost comedic outings vs the Habs.

Every team in the league has players who bring stability. They just didn't pay through the nose to have them. You are just trying to reason away the 12 mil in dead cap this year.

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Every team in the league has players who bring stability. They just didn't pay through the nose to have them. You are just trying to reason away the 12 mil in dead cap this year.

 

But that only came about cos' we drafted lil' monsters who hit the ground running! May's well see the beer stein half-full, eh?

[Wolfgang Durst]

The Leafs' perspective of the Canucks season so far - very interesting stuff - :

 

What can be safely said about the Canucks’ 6-7-0 start is that they’ve been a tire fire defensively, and their overtaxed goalies in Braden Holtby and Thatcher Demko are not saving the day so far. Ruing sloppy turnovers and coverage breakdowns, Elias Pettersson provided the funny and damning soundbite the other night, “We don’t make the simple plays good.”

Remove their cumulative 16-3 rout of the Senators over their three-game series, Vancouver’s goal difference is -16 in the other 10 games. Outside of one win against Edmonton and one against Winnipeg, they have largely been subpar against competent competition this season, including a cumulative 8-2 loss to the Flames in a two-game series earlier this season.

At 5v5, the Canucks are dead last in the league in a ton of key defensive metrics — shot attempts against/60, shots against/60, scoring chances against/60 — and close to last in others: high danger chances against/60, expected goals against/60. On paper, there isn’t a better matchup to run into for three games as the Leafs look to get their confidence up offensively at 5v5.

The Canucks did like their overall effort level much better in their most recent game — another loss to Montreal — and remain a team you have to respect offensively, even as their power play uncharacteristically struggles (bottom 10 in the league after finishing in the top five last season… Manny Malhotra effect?). At 5v5, they’re in the top 10 in expected goals for/60, top 10 in scoring chances for/60, and top five in shooting percentage. It’s a Canucks offense and top six that is worthy of attention and respect with JT Miller, Bo Horvat, Brock Boeser, Elias Pettersson, the emerging Nils Hoglander, and the fourth-forward threat of Quinn Hughes.

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I mostly like what you said, but what's this now? Canucks fans have been spoiled? lol 

the answer to your somewhat obtuse question is in the lines that followed - if you read them.

 

Young players struggling is 'normal' at the NHL level, particularly guys that come into the league at 20.  That hasn't happened - in fact a group with an exceptionally young core - knocked off Minny, and then the defending Champions before bowing out in 7 games (with a M.A.S.H. / harm reduction lineup).

 

People here are seeing their first signs of mortality from Pettersson, Hughes et al - the young core has struggled early this year - and the results have reflected that. 

They've gotten buried in the possession game - combined with not finishing at their regular clip - and making uncharacteristic mistakes - even showing signs of being 'absent' at times.    They've been outstanding early in their careers - and people appear to have been 'spoiled' by it - expecting that every night out of them. 

Which is not to 'blame' the losses on them - veterans like Roussel, Pearson, Hamonic have had some uninspiring games as well - and the group as a whole has taken their turns - but the "4th line" has been the team's best - when most highlight reel fans expect 20 year olds to carry the team.

 

The string of Calder candidates playing like veterans evidently wasn't enough (which don't include Demko, or Hoglander to this point) - but carry on with "lols" - maybe even follow that up with the patented feeling sorry for ourselves as a 'poor Canucks fans'. 

[UKNuck96]

4 minutes ago, wloutet said:

My favourite book growing up was 7 Habits of Highly Effective Bench Warmers!  I played rugby for 35 years, most of it at div 2 and div 3. I had a few years at First Division (what is now called Premier league), but when I had a bad game, I'd be dropped. I loved the game, and 4 of the players in my position who played ahead of me, played for Canada or BC teams. I trained with them and against them, I analyzed what they did that I didn't (quite a bit!), so gradually I learned strategy, and training techniques. Same when I pole vaulted. I became an okay coach of over 80 teams in basketball, rugby and track, although I was never very great at any. So Baumgartner is in the same situation.

This, my dad when we lived in BC coached Kits rugby team to the provincial finals I believe, he has also coached the Jordan national 7 team and their top 15s. He currently is working voluntarily with the youth set up for Pau Rugby in France. He was not a great player but he is a good studier of the game as well as a high level ref in rugby. 
 

I introduced a friend of mine who is a good basketball player (but short so never had the chance to go pro) and he has never played rugby nor really watched it. But because he studies basketball and sees patterns and systems the two of them hit it off well and did some work together and were quite successful. 
 

you don’t need to be a good player to be a good coach, arguably I would say a good coach is more likely to be found in players which had to study, to learn to change to adapt in order to make it (if they ever did) players like burrows, Hansen I would pen to be better coaches than say anNaslund or Sedin 

[oldnews]

9 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Well said, ON..but you're playing the long-view. Not exactly what most folks ponder in this hectic, ADHD 21st C. Just hope the ones at the top have the patience to steer them through another 18 mos, or so. When the books are clean & kids a little more exp'd, this franchise will again be formidable.

The team has always been playing the long game.

Which is the right game imo.

Guys like EP, Hughes, Boeser, etc - are still years away from their prime - as is Demko - as are the next wave of players (Hoglander, Juolevi, Podkolzin, pick your favorites...).

 

The Markstrom decision was essentially dictated by expansion.  The Toffoli one - by Covid.  People can whine and argue that the Eriksson signing cost the team these players - but that's myopic and ignorant.    LE will be gone (so will a number of other veterans) - when those players (terms) remain with their present teams....

Anyhow - there's a contagion of crybaby culture that I don't believe in enabling - so I'll continue to counterpoint these narratives, even if I have my own differences with some of the decisions the franchise has made (anyone would).

The bottom line - the team's trajectory remains on those of their young core.  If they need a Tyler Toffoli for their Cup run in the future, they can rent him again after the Habs window has closed lol.

[Canuck Surfer]

Hamonic is listed day to day on some sites.  Any update anyone?  

[HC20.0]

Can we put Juolevi back in please?

[brownky]

The player changes haven't been the biggest issues imo.

 

It's Manny. TO got Malhotra, we lost Malhotra.

 

TO's Powerplay is dynamite.

 

Ours can't score on anyone except Ottawa.

 

Oops.

[oldnews]

14 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Every team in the league has players who bring stability. They just didn't pay through the nose to have them. You are just trying to reason away the 12 mil in dead cap this year.

 

Rolls eyes.

If you know so much about every team in the league - it should be no mystery to you the kind of money that has been in the bottom six of other highly competitive teams - even Stanley Cup Champion rosters.

I've posted this numerous times before, so it becomes annoying to repeat - but...

 

St Louis had Bozak (5 million), Steen (6 million), Sundqvist (2.75 million) in their bottom six when they won the Cup - and they did not have a young top 6 than needed 'foundation'.

 

The Isles went to the Conference Finals last year with Ladd making 5.5 x 3 more years of term (their LE) ...Clutterbuck 2x3.5, Cizikas 3.35, and Komarov 2x3 = all in their bottom six (3 x 4th line)....Martin was also in that group making 2.5 million last year....(re-signed at 4 x 1.5).

 

People here tend to see out of a fishbowl.

 

 

[Wayne Glensky]

58 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Never too late. I prefer to move forward then to look behind. That being said you must learn from mistakes. 

Buddy it’s been 10 YEARS! 10 YEARS! And we have 2 playoff appearances?  Benning has had ample amounts of time to turn it around. His time is done in Vancouver and everyone knows it. The media is starting to mock Benning. 

[Pickly]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Rolls eyes.

If you know so much about every team in the league - it should be no mystery to you the kind of money that has been in the bottom six of other highly competitive teams - even Stanley Cup Champion rosters.

I've posted this numerous times before, so it becomes annoying to repeat - but...

 

St Louis had Bozak (5 million), Steen (6 million), Sundqvist (2.75 million) in their bottom six when they won the Cup - and they did not have a young top 6 than needed 'foundation'.

 

The Isles went to the Conference Finals last year with Ladd making 5.5 x 3 more years of term (their LE) ...Clutterbuck 2x3.5, Cizikas 3.35, and Komarov 2x3 = all in their bottom six (3 x 4th line)....Martin was also in that group making 2.5 million last year....(re-signed at 4 x 1.5).

 

People here tend to see out of a fishbowl.

 

 

That bottom 6 was filthy last year IIRC and had serious impact for them. 

[canuck2288]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Yep.  TO getting avg 55% on the faceoff dots.  He went to TO for a bigger opportunity on the coaching bench.

While we kept our “coaches”

 

sad 

[Squamfan]

best thing so far about this season is no Kelly Sutherland

[appleboy]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Rolls eyes.

If you know so much about every team in the league - it should be no mystery to you the kind of money that has been in the bottom six of other highly competitive teams - even Stanley Cup Champion rosters.

I've posted this numerous times before, so it becomes annoying to repeat - but...

 

St Louis had Bozak (5 million), Steen (6 million), Sundqvist (2.75 million) in their bottom six when they won the Cup - and they did not have a young top 6 than needed 'foundation'.

 

The Isles went to the Conference Finals last year with Ladd making 5.5 x 3 more years of term (their LE) ...Clutterbuck 2x3.5, Cizikas 3.35, and Komarov 2x3 = all in their bottom six (3 x 4th line)....Martin was also in that group making 2.5 million last year....(re-signed at 4 x 1.5).

 

People here tend to see out of a fishbowl.

 

 

You refuse to admit the cap mess. Lol

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, appleboy said:

You refuse to admit the cap mess. Lol

Your straw game is weak.

[canuck2288]

Worst part of being a Canucks fan, with our pathetic coaching not being able to adapt to our competition, is we play and lose to Canadian teams every game 

 

we all have friends that cheer for other Canadian teams so after each loss we have have that loss rubbed in our face 

 

 

 

 

[appleboy]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Your straw game is weak.

Yours is weaker. We have had this discussion for two years and now even ad you see it before you . You still stick your head in the sand.