[Edited] Bottom 5 Finish Now in Reach!

[Me_]

Can we have a Benning bashing thread so that everyone who keep Benning bashing can Benning bash in one place instead of polluting the experience of all others with their Benning bashing?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Me_

[Me_]

12 hours ago, Provost said:

Sorry... the last offseason was his chance to fix it for me.

He had to step up and fix the cap issues he created.

He didn’t and he spent so much time chasing down an OEL trade, he “ran out of time” to shed cap and re-sign efficient players.

No more chances.  Who says Benning would be better at this draft than anyone else?  He has a spotty record with top 10 picks and no one will have seen any later picks play... so if they actually have the draft this year, it is going to be heavy European dominated where he won’t have laid eyes on a player.. and the rest will be pretty random.

In fact!

In fact!
Benning has a very bad record with picking first overall!

 

He has picked none.

 

and THAT is absolutely unacceptable.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Me_

[mll]

4 hours ago, bree2 said:

you can't blame Benning for all the rebuilding years, look what he has accomplished in the players we got, this is a covid year and we started out with the worst schedule in the league, we still have played more games than  every team , sure the other teams will have to sort of go thru it coming up, but the way i see it is the schedulers screwed us this year!

 

Benning approved the schedule.  The NHL sends out the schedule to each team for revision before it’s finalized.  They can ask for changes.  This season was easier to make adjustments as buildings are mostly not being shared - no concerts, special events.  

 

Benning probably didn’t expect the team to look so off to start the season.  The schedule was rather convenient if they had been able to carry the momentum over from the bubble.  They had more games early when they were fresh and could have had a head start on the division standings, forcing other teams to chase them.   There are less games later when wear&tear have piled up and they need more rest to be ready for the playoffs.

 

Some teams have scrapped practice days because the season is so compressed.  Green tends to run really intense training camps and during games to shorten the bench with some players playing very limited minutes.

 

The Canucks have the more favourable tired/rested schedule.  It’s really too bad that the team looked somewhat non engaged to start the season.  The North has yet to have rescheduled games.  Other divisions are no longer accurate with all the Covid suspensions.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by mll

[kanucks25]

23 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Can we have a Benning bashing thread so that everyone who keep Benning bashing can Benning bash in one place instead of polluting the experience of others with their Benning bashing?

 

Thanks

 

 

"wah!!! don't disrupt my echo chamber!!!"

[CanucksJay]

17 hours ago, Provost said:

If they play lights out, I keep Green but still fire Benning.

 

We would still have a team where a bunch of players wouldn’t be picked up if they were out on waivers, that is a GM issue... not a player effort issue.

 

The team just doesn’t have the talent and has serious cap issues for a team with so little success.  If Green can get more out of them for a stretched it doesn’t change that.

Were people calling for Benning to be fired after last playoffs?

 

What changed since then? Our record this year?

 

Heading into the season, I was excited that our defense looked improved.  We brought in Schmidt and Hamonic while losing Tanev.  Hughes was another year improved. Myers looked solid in the playoffs (if not for getting called on weak penalties that we dont normally see in the playoffs)

Our young forwards looked poised for a breakout season after last playoffs.

 

Brock finally shook the injury bug and looked way better in the playoffs.

Petey had a great payoff campaign

so did Bo

Motte broke out.

 

Demko was lights out

 

We lost Toffoli but overall, there was much excitement heading into this season

 

I feel like those that are calling for Benning to be fire should have voiced that before the season started because heading into this season, most of us thought we had an improved D, Thatch would continue to roll, our forwards and young core would take another step forward.

 

If you check my old posts, I complained about the Erikkson signing.

I complained about Sutter, Beagle Roussel signings

 

What put things into persenctive for me was that this year, I even complained about Holtby signing but understood the need for insurance once Demko looked shakey to start the season.  We can look at hindsight and say, We should have never signed Holtby and got a cheaper backup because look how great Demko is doing.

 

What if Holtby was never signed? What if Demko looked shakey to start the season and wasn't insulated with a capable veteran backup to take on the workload / beatings (as we started ragging on Holtby as Demko was starting to take off).

 

What if that was Demko in net the whole time getting shelled every night while our team played porous defence?  Would he have developed this quickly throughout the year? Would we have ruined his development / confidence?

 

I didn't agree with the Holtby signing but when I see that

a) Demko needed a vet tandem

b) Holtby is a team player

c) Holty is signed to a short contract

d) We needed to expose a goalie in the ED

 

Benning gets my vote of confidence in the signing.

 

I've moved on from the Eriksson, Roussel, Sutter signings because to me, Benning has shown that he has learned from this with the recent signings of Hamonic and Holtby

 

I dont think Benning realized how quickly Petey and Hughes would be this good.  They made this team into a playoff team when perhaps Benning was thinking that they needed mroe vet protection for the next 1-2 years.

 

He now sees that the youth is ready and the moves he is making is signalling that.  My thoughts going forward is that he'll find good value in FA signings for players that want to come to a beautiful city like Vancouver that is bursting at the seams with young talent and a hockey crazed market.

 

It is so much easier to attract talent when the team is on an upward trajectory like this and we will start seeing better value and term

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by CanucksJay

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

Were people calling for Benning to be fired after last playoffs?

Last playoffs? It's been years lol.

[Dazzle]

17 hours ago, Provost said:

I don't fire Green because he isn't our coach after this season as his contract is up.  A new GM can come in and assess things, and decide if Green is his guy or he wants someone else.

His contract is ending soon. They could sign him for one year, but then the GM will have to be stuck with him. I would have thought that letting everyone, minus Clark, would have been the most logical choice, and have the GM handpick everyone. It'll be a lot of work, sure, but then the team will have a fresh start.

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Last playoffs? It's been years lol.

So as you watched th Canucks beat Minni and then St Louis and then go into game 7 vs Vegas, were they asking for Benning to be fired throughout or was it pretty quiet?

[kanucks25]

1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

So as you watched th Canucks beat Minni and then St Louis and then go into game 7 vs Vegas, were they asking for Benning to be fired throughout or was it pretty quiet?

Are you talking about here specifically? I'm not sure, I didn't really post here all of last season.

 

In general it's hard to say how many people that were on the "fire Benning bandwagon" jumped off because of that run, if any.

[CanucksJay]

9 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Are you talking about here specifically? I'm not sure, I didn't really post here all of last season.

 

In general it's hard to say how many people that were on the "fire Benning bandwagon" jumped off because of that run, if any.

Sorry didn't mean to call you out.

I meant did the Benning detractors call for his firing during that time.  

 

Answer is, we didn't.  We saw people complaining about Myers and his penalties.

We saw people complaining about inability to move the puck from the back end , etc but I didnt hear any fire Benning requests like I'm seeign now

[kanucks25]

28 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Sorry didn't mean to call you out.

I meant did the Benning detractors call for his firing during that time.  

 

Answer is, we didn't.  We saw people complaining about Myers and his penalties.

We saw people complaining about inability to move the puck from the back end , etc but I didnt hear any fire Benning requests like I'm seeign now

Sorry, I'm not really understanding.

 

I mean, at that exact time, I think most people were more concerned with watching the playoff games; no GM gets fired during the playoffs AFAIK.

 

42 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I feel like those that are calling for Benning to be fire should have voiced that before the season started because heading into this season, most of us thought we had an improved D, Thatch would continue to roll, our forwards and young core would take another step forward.

I'm pretty sure the people who have wanted Benning fired for years still wanted him fired before this season started, I know I did. Nothing in that playoff run changed my mind, really. And what happened in the off-season only convinced me more so.

Edited March 15, 2021 by kanucks25

[Provost]

5 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Were people calling for Benning to be fired after last playoffs?

 

What changed since then? Our record this year?

No, but a LOT of people recognized the cap issues looming last summer and posted that Benning’s future really depended on how well he was able to extricate himself out of the mess he made.

 

We were a team with a ton of positive press around the league after the bubble and an opportunity to show we are a team on the rise and build on that surprise success.   Alternatively, if he couldn’t figure out a plan, it was obvious to most folks that we would be taking a step back.
 

To me, it was Benning’s job to keep that momentum going as it would also impact what price we could sign our two stars at.

 

That didn’t happen quite clearly, and it is now clear that next year is also likely a step back.  Benning even admitted that.

 

He is the one paid to be the GM of the hockey team.  He should be batting a lot bette than us fans posting on the message boards.

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

No, but a LOT of people recognized the cap issues looming last summer and posted that Benning’s future really depended on how well he was able to extricate himself out of the mess he made.

 

We were a team with a ton of positive press around the league after the bubble and an opportunity to show we are a team on the rise and build on that surprise success.   Alternatively, if he couldn’t figure out a plan, it was obvious to most folks that we would be taking a step back.
 

To me, it was Benning’s job to keep that momentum going as it would also impact what price we could sign our two stars at.

 

That didn’t happen quite clearly, and it is now clear that next year is also likely a step back.  Benning even admitted that.

 

He is the one paid to be the GM of the hockey team.  He should be batting a lot bette than us fans posting on the message boards.

This all goes back to how do you get rid of crappy contracts? 

You need to package prospects or picks. 

To say Benning's future depends on how well he can get out of the poor contracts signed is pretty much saying he's as good as gone and not really giving him a chance. 

Its basically firing him for mistakes made multiple years ago. 

No team is willing to take garbage for free. 

I am aligned with Benning in that rather than mortgaging the future for this season and the next one, we take our lumps now and really go for it starting in 2 years when our chance of winning the cup is higher anyway. 

I'm sure we could have gotten rid of Erikson if we retained half and threw in Gaudette or JB. We then probably could have signed Toffoli. 

Would that make us contenders this year? I don't think so... 

What if in 2 years, we have a further developed Gaudette who might be a mainstay on bottom 6 with guys like JV and Motte and then sign someone equivalent to Toffoli (as he was available UFA this year). 

I'm just saying I don't think we are a good enough team yet to throw picks and prospects away to get rid of bad contracts. Those types of moves are done by actual Cup contenders who need to make a final move or two to put them over the top. 

I would be more upset if in 2 years, we lament that we threw away our prospects too early to get rid of Eriksson because we could have used player X this playoffs... 

 

[Provost]

23 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

This all goes back to how do you get rid of crappy contracts? 

You need to package prospects or picks. 

To say Benning's future depends on how well he can get out of the poor contracts signed is pretty much saying he's as good as gone and not really giving him a chance. 

Its basically firing him for mistakes made multiple years ago. 

No team is willing to take garbage for free. 

I am aligned with Benning in that rather than mortgaging the future for this season and the next one, we take our lumps now and really go for it starting in 2 years when our chance of winning the cup is higher anyway. 

I'm sure we could have gotten rid of Erikson if we retained half and threw in Gaudette or JB. We then probably could have signed Toffoli. 

Would that make us contenders this year? I don't think so... 

What if in 2 years, we have a further developed Gaudette who might be a mainstay on bottom 6 with guys like JV and Motte and then sign someone equivalent to Toffoli (as he was available UFA this year). 

I'm just saying I don't think we are a good enough team yet to throw picks and prospects away to get rid of bad contracts. Those types of moves are done by actual Cup contenders who need to make a final move or two to put them over the top. 

I would be more upset if in 2 years, we lament that we threw away our prospects too early to get rid of Eriksson because we could have used player X this playoffs... 

 

OK that is fine.  You accept that he signed a bunch of bad contracts which put us in a really bad spot and give him a pass on that.

My pass was conditional on his fixing his mistakes in a reasonable manner.  You literally called a bunch of players he is paying a bunch of money to garbage.

There is no magic pill that makes us contenders in two years.  You build towards that slowly.  We have just delayed starting to build towards that for another two years.  We are less likely to be contenders in two years as we will no longer have two superstars on cheap ELC contracts and will be paying them full market rates.  Too many people are seeing these bad contracts roll off and thinking that we will suddenly be having all sorts of cap flexibility.  That just isn't true.  We have raises owed to players for all that money coming off the books, and Benning STILL has to find UFAs on cheap deals or later picks who pan out and don't cost much.

[Gurn]

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

My pass was conditional on his fixing his mistakes in a reasonable manner

Excellent, and you will notice that next season, a lot of cap space is available, seems reasonable to me.

[Josepho]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

Excellent, and you will notice that next season, a lot of cap space is available, seems reasonable to me.

and, given his track record, why are you confident in benning's ability to manage the cap?

[xereau]

On 2/18/2021 at 12:38 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

Trade Deadline isn’t till mid-April so I think we will wait till mid-March to evaluate our chances and decide what to do from there. 

Hail, the Ides of March.

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Excellent, and you will notice that next season, a lot of cap space is available, seems reasonable to me.

Actually there isn’t much cap space available next season.  We have almost no money coming off the books and have huge raises due our three best players.  We also have to absorb ELC bonuses pushed into next season that we can’t afford this season.

 

The season after next season 2022-23, there might be some more cap space.

, depending on what we sign Petterson, Hughes, and Demko to.   But we also can’t spend it because in all the following years we have raises due to Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Hoglander, and likely Petterson, Hughes, and Demko again since we can only afford short bridge deals.

 

All those raises happen in consecutive years.  Every efficient contract we have expires and will be paid market rate.  

[Dazzle]

28 minutes ago, Provost said:

Actually there isn’t much cap space available next season.  We have almost no money coming off the books and have huge raises due our three best players.  We also have to absorb ELC bonuses pushed into next season that we can’t afford this season.

 

The season after next season 2022-23, there might be some more cap space.

, depending on what we sign Petterson, Hughes, and Demko to.   But we also can’t spend it because in all the following years we have raises due to Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Hoglander, and likely Petterson, Hughes, and Demko again since we can only afford short bridge deals.

 

All those raises happen in consecutive years.  Every efficient contract we have expires and will be paid market rate.  

I believe Eriksson will be bought out next year, so that would be helpful. If they remove players like Pearson (thru trade deadline), who probably could be replaced by a cheaper, unproven winger (namely anyone in our system), that will help save money. If Myers is gone (thru expansion draft), that saves money. If Holtby's gone, that too. Sutter may or may not be coming back.

 

I think this next offseason actually will benefit the Canucks, more so than other years. The most painful part is gone - losing Markstrom and Tanev could possibly be a win for the Canucks long term.

[CanucksJay]

13 minutes ago, Provost said:

Actually there isn’t much cap space available next season.  We have almost no money coming off the books and have huge raises due our three best players.  We also have to absorb ELC bonuses pushed into next season that we can’t afford this season.

 

The season after next season 2022-23, there might be some more cap space.

, depending on what we sign Petterson, Hughes, and Demko to.   But we also can’t spend it because in all the following years we have raises due to Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Hoglander, and likely Petterson, Hughes, and Demko again since we can only afford short bridge deals.

 

All those raises happen in consecutive years.  Every efficient contract we have expires and will be paid market rate.  

I agree with a lot of what you have stated as our young core are due for raises (Pettersson and Hughes) although, we might be in a decent position due to flat cap or lowered caps to sign our RFAs for better value deals. 

So then here's another question. 

Was this the year then to clear Eriksson, Spooner, Lunogo, Baerstchi and go for it? We still need Sutter, Beagle and Rousel (maybe) as roster players

 

If we somehow got rid of the non roster cap hits, and load up, are we contenders? 

 

UFAs want money And term (case in point Markstrom 6x6 deal) 

Will we have the capspace to sign our young core in the future if we do that? Plus the mentioned picks or prospects required to get rid of Erikson, Luongo, Spooner, Baerstchi Rousel... 

 

I think the plan is to bank on our young core when they are starting to peak (Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat Demko ) And surround them with new younger prospects like Hog, Pod, Juolevi, Lind, Gadjovich, Rathbone and new drafts this and next year. 

 

We then use the left over money to fill holes or go for 1 premier player like Pietrangelo via. UfA