Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[Convincing John]

1 minute ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

One more year now

I wish I could buy that. Every time Jimbo gets $5 of cap space his pen comes out of his top pocket. 
 

looks like we got some cap space, any salt and pepper haired UFA’s out there to kill penalties for $4M/ a year? 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

14 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Toffoli claimes he never even made an offer, hahahaha. Then Jimbo said he ran out of time. Seriously Jim, shoot him a text while you’re taking a crap or something. You can do 2 things at once. 

Once he made the decision to trade for Toffoli he should have been a high priority signing, the fact Toffoli loved it here only makes JB that much worse. I like Nate Schmidt but we could have had Toffoli and Stetcher for the exact same cap hit. JB is awful at his job and I’m shocked he still has apologists out there in Canucks nation. 

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

Especially since it isn't dependent on who the GM or Head coach is.  Goalies coaches are kind of on their own, with the Rangers for example their goalie coach has survived a bunch of different Head coaches.

I can see that if the GM may be getting replaced that they can't commit to Green... but honestly no new management is going to be dissuaded because they can't put in "their" goalie coach.  They would honestly almost certainly be happy that there was a facet of the operation that had continuity and they could largely ignore because it is working well.  That can't be said for the rest of the roster, coaching staff, pro scouts, etc.  There is a ton of work to do.

Well said.  The only thing that is a certainty is that TG will finally be gone in 4 days then maybe we'll finally get an experienced NHL coach at the helm.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, Convincing John said:

I’d throw, handcuffed to the cap for the next 2 years as a Qualm 

Like BP said - one more season.  And I think this offseason gives a ton more opportunity than last.  I think it’s Bo, Miller, Pearson, Schmidt, Myers and LTIR Ferland signed past next year.
 

If JB is canned the new GM will have a bunch of decent young / prime players and a lot of opportunity.  The only guy who might be hard to retain is Miller - he’s hard to read.  Bo is the only key UFA but I doubt he’s hard to bring back. 
 

I’m not going to cry about not maximizing the cap this season - especially with how it’s gone.

Edited May 16, 2021 by ilduce39

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Once he made the decision to trade for Toffoli he should have been a high priority signing, the fact Toffoli loved it here only makes JB that much worse. I like Nate Schmidt but we could have had Toffoli and Stetcher for the exact same cap hit. JB is awful at his job and I’m shocked he still has apologists out there in Canucks nation. 

The decision to trade for Toffoli was made before Covid flattened the cap IIRC.  
 

Plans change with the circumstances - they (correctly IMO) identified that D was the weak link and were looking to shake that up. The next priority was clearly in net.  Again, JB is correct in assessing our biggest weakness is in our own end.  
 

As GM that’s his job so sure I guess you can “blame” him but you can’t have it both ways when the guy tries to address his own team’s weak spot. 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

15 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

The decision to trade for Toffoli was made before Covid flattened the cap IIRC.  
 

Plans change with the circumstances - they (correctly IMO) identified that D was the weak link and were looking to shake that up. The next priority was clearly in net.  Again, JB is correct in assessing our biggest weakness is in our own end.  
 

As GM that’s his job so sure I guess you can “blame” him but you can’t have it both ways when the guy tries to address his own team’s weak spot. 

I said I’d rather have Toffoli, Stetcher and let’s throw the 3rd round pick in there as well for the same cap hit that Schmidt had. Asset management is a real thing and he’s really bad at it. He is the person to blame, there is no one else. You can give him props for all of his mediocrity all you like. You can be an optimist and I’ll be a realist. Covid didn’t make the situation any easier yet JB still wanted OEL. Keep making excuses for him though

[knucklehead91]

3 hours ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Building through the draft with limited picks. If you’re rebuilding plan is to rebuild through the draft, which is the only logical way of doing it, then you trade players to add picks and you don’t trade picks and prospects for a guy like say, Toffoli, and then show your terrible asset management and not resign him. That’s not a rebuilding move. Good try though

We had an opportunity to be in the playoffs, we made a move to see if we could go deep. Which we did go fairly deep. It just wasnt enough. Resigning Toffoli is a short term plan. Its not long term. Toffoli is 100% heading towards a decline, there is no more prime years left in Toffoli. Re-signing Toffoli is like hanging onto 2011 and trying to repeat the same success, which we came up short and we were absolutely dominated by Vegas. 
We have drafted exceptionally well the last few years. Yes we basically threw a pick away, but we did it in an attempt to go on a run which we almost went to the WCF. 

[ilduce39]

3 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

I said I’d rather have Toffoli, Stetcher and let’s throw the 3rd round pick in there as well for the same cap hit that Schmidt had. Asset management is a real thing and he’s really bad at it. He is the person to blame, there is no one else. You can give him props for all of his mediocrity all you like. You can be an optimist and I’ll be a realist. Covid didn’t make the situation any easier yet JB still wanted OEL. Keep making excuses for him though

IIRC OEL was to be swapped for Loui, which would have given us the shakeup on the back end and left us with enough money to bring back Tanev or Toffoli over simply adding Schmidt.  Not a fan of the length of OEL’s deal but by jettisoning 2 years of Eriksson the cap would have been used a lot more efficiently this year and next. 
 

I’m not sure it’s “realism” using hindsight to say you want Toffoli - on pace for 44 goals over 82 which would smash his previous best of 31 set in like 2016.  Nobody foresaw Toffoli as a top 10 goal scorer this year... good for him but if you’re making decisions last summer you’re thinking Toffoli is a 25 goal guy.  Still great to have but not what we’ve seen this season.

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

10 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

We had an opportunity to be in the playoffs, we made a move to see if we could go deep. Which we did go fairly deep. It just wasnt enough. Resigning Toffoli is a short term plan. Its not long term. Toffoli is 100% heading towards a decline, there is no more prime years left in Toffoli. Re-signing Toffoli is like hanging onto 2011 and trying to repeat the same success, which we came up short and we were absolutely dominated by Vegas. 
We have drafted exceptionally well the last few years. Yes we basically threw a pick away, but we did it in an attempt to go on a run which we almost went to the WCF. 

We won a play in series and one legit series. You’re making it sound like it was 2011. So Toffoli is headed towards an awful decline and we don’t need him yet we re upped Pearson this year? Hmmmm. I agree Toffoli wasn’t a long term plan, so a team that’s in the position we were in I wouldn’t have made the move. But IF the move is made, use common sense and have asset management. You haven’t given any reasons as to why Benning should stay. I agree he’s drafted well, he’s also had some terrible picks. But had he rebuilt the team like he should have we would have had many more picks for him to hopefully hit on, for example look at how many picks the Wings have had the last 4 years in the top 3 rounds. JB should be part of a scouting department or an assistant GM. But as a GM he’s a tadpole swimming in an ocean with sharks. He’s incompetent and it’s time we move on. Let’s see this team move forward and progress please. 

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

he’s also had some terrible picks

Who?

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

7 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

IIRC OEL was to be swapped for Loui, which would have given us the shakeup on the back end and left us with enough money to bring back Tanev or Toffoli over simply adding Schmidt.  Not a fan of the length of OEL’s deal but by jettisoning 2 years of Eriksson the cap would have been used a lot more efficiently this year and next. 
 

I’m not sure it’s “realism” using hindsight to say you want Toffoli - on pace for 44 goals over 82 which would smash his previous best of 31 set in like 2016.  Nobody foresaw Toffoli as a top 10 goal scorer this year... good for him but if you’re making decisions last summer you’re thinking Toffoli is a 25 goal guy.  Still great to have but not what we’ve seen this season.

The offer wasn’t Loui for OEL, that’s absurd. But if you somehow have a magical and legitimate source to that feel free to post it. I won’t hold my breath. I don’t think Toffoli scores 44 but I’m not using hindsight. I’m using common sense. He played well in our top 6, there was immediate chemistry. We gave up a prospect and a 2nd rounder for him and then after he plays well here and loves the city we don’t even send him an offer? He signed a very team friendly deal in Montreal. I was upset when it happened, hindsight was not needed. 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

Who?

Virtanen at 6. It should have been Ehlers or Nylander, Gradin was pounding the table for Nylander and Benning didn’t go with one of our most respected scouts opinions. He took JV. I shook my head on draft day and outside of him looking decent last year he’s not been worthy of that selection. Juolevi at 4, Matt Tkachuk was the obvious pick at the time and in hindsight. I’m by no means saying he’s bad at drafting, I said he’s made some terrible picks. Also if you jump on google you should be able to find that JV and OJ were his picks and after those he opened it up to Brackett in having more input. I’m saying we need a new GM, some people are taking it like I’m personally attacking them. I just want this team to do well and I don’t see that being the case under Benning as his record shows no reason why anyone should 

[ilduce39]

9 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

The offer wasn’t Loui for OEL, that’s absurd. But if you somehow have a magical and legitimate source to that feel free to post it. I won’t hold my breath. I don’t think Toffoli scores 44 but I’m not using hindsight. I’m using common sense. He played well in our top 6, there was immediate chemistry. We gave up a prospect and a 2nd rounder for him and then after he plays well here and loves the city we don’t even send him an offer? He signed a very team friendly deal in Montreal. I was upset when it happened, hindsight was not needed. 

Not straight up obviously - Canucks were to add the value in picks/prospects.  When following the rumours most of the speculation was around how Coyotes ownership wanted to shed cost certainty / salary and the Canucks needed cap space.
 

Anyways, it fell through so we really don’t know what was on the table. 

 

Nobody was happy that Toffoli walked but he’s not going to keep up a 40+ goal pace next year. He likely comes back to earth and losing him won’t be a big deal. 

[Gurn]

14 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Virtanen at 6. It should have been Ehlers or Nylander, Gradin was pounding the table for Nylander and Benning didn’t go with one of our most respected scouts opinions. He took JV. I shook my head on draft day and outside of him looking decent last year he’s not been worthy of that selection. Juolevi at 4, Matt Tkachuk was the obvious pick at the time and in hindsight. I’m by no means saying he’s bad at drafting, I said he’s made some terrible picks. Also if you jump on google you should be able to find that JV and OJ were his picks and after those he opened it up to Brackett in having more input. I’m saying we need a new GM, some people are taking it like I’m personally attacking them. I just want this team to do well and I don’t see that being the case under Benning as his record shows no reason why anyone should 

Yah, thought I'd give a new poster a chance.

Oh well

Take care of your self.

[knucklehead91]

9 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

We won a play in series and one legit series. You’re making it sound like it was 2011. So Toffoli is headed towards an awful decline and we don’t need him yet we re upped Pearson this year? Hmmmm. I agree Toffoli wasn’t a long term plan, so a team that’s in the position we were in I wouldn’t have made the move. But IF the move is made, use common sense and have asset management. You haven’t given any reasons as to why Benning should stay. I agree he’s drafted well, he’s also had some terrible picks. But had he rebuilt the team like he should have we would have had many more picks for him to hopefully hit on, for example look at how many picks the Wings have had the last 4 years in the top 3 rounds. JB should be part of a scouting department or an assistant GM. But as a GM he’s a tadpole swimming in an ocean with sharks. He’s incompetent and it’s time we move on. Let’s see this team move forward and progress please. 

Pearson was already under contract, other wise Benning would have let Pearson walk and kept Toffoli.

Bennings “terrible” picks are faaaar outweighed by his exceptional picks.

 

i guess you cant figure out that the rebuild started when the Sedins retired. Benning out of respect of the Sedins was not going to end their careers by blowing it up in the latter years of their career. Aquallini wanted playoffs and the Sedins were still playing, so Benning made every attempt to bring a cup to Vancouver and give the Sedins every chance he could. The “bad” moves were made in attempts to slap a cup winning team together... without any decent prospects to slot in or trade for better pieces. The Sedins retired, the rebuild began and some stop gaps were signed to hold the fort down and help the youth develop. 
 

We had a potential chance to make playoffs so he went and got a pretty good player in Toffoli to see how deep we could go. We met a real contender and we were no match. Re-signing Toffoli for 4 years would have a trickledown effect in a flat cap, plus Pearson is 1 year younger and cheaper.

 

I can gaurantee you if Pettersson didnt get hurt or we didnt get hit with COVID, we wouldnt be talking about Toffoli.

Prior to COVID there was a 15 game stretch where we were one of the hottest teams in the NHL.

 

I’d like to see every single other team lose a top player and go through the same scheduling and 1 month break we had. 100% not a single team would have the same success. 
 

Next year will be a normal season, one where we arent confined to the same 6 opponents. The Canucks will be ready to play and ready to rock.

[Bertuzzipunch]

12 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Virtanen at 6. It should have been Ehlers or Nylander, Gradin was pounding the table for Nylander and Benning didn’t go with one of our most respected scouts opinions. He took JV. I shook my head on draft day and outside of him looking decent last year he’s not been worthy of that selection. Juolevi at 4, Matt Tkachuk was the obvious pick at the time and in hindsight. I’m by no means saying he’s bad at drafting, I said he’s made some terrible picks. Also if you jump on google you should be able to find that JV and OJ were his picks and after those he opened it up to Brackett in having more input. I’m saying we need a new GM, some people are taking it like I’m personally attacking them. I just want this team to do well and I don’t see that being the case under Benning as his record shows no reason why anyone should 

Who cares about tkachuk we missed out on sergachev, mcovey and chychrun. That stings

[Convincing John]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Like BP said - one more season.  And I think this offseason gives a ton more opportunity than last.  I think it’s Bo, Miller, Pearson, Schmidt, Myers and LTIR Ferland signed past next year.
 

If JB is canned the new GM will have a bunch of decent young / prime players and a lot of opportunity.  The only guy who might be hard to retain is Miller - he’s hard to read.  Bo is the only key UFA but I doubt he’s hard to bring back. 
 

I’m not going to cry about not maximizing the cap this season - especially with how it’s gone.

Yes we sure did MAXimize the cap didn’t we 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

5 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Not straight up obviously - Canucks were to add the value in picks/prospects.  When following the rumours most of the speculation was around how Coyotes ownership wanted to shed cost certainty / salary and the Canucks needed cap space.
 

Anyways, it fell through so we really don’t know what was on the table. 

 

Nobody was happy that Toffoli walked but he’s not going to keep up a 40+ goal pace next year. He likely comes back to earth and losing him won’t be a big deal. 

I totally agree I don’t think he stays at a 40 goal pace. But even if he’s 20 goals and 40-45 point range for the next few years, which is certainly attainable, then he is still on a really good value contract. I don’t think our opinions differ all that much other then me wanting a change and you being ok seeing how it shakes out a while longer. Again, we’re all on the same page and hoping the cup can come to Van. 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

6 minutes ago, gurn said:

Yah, thought I'd give a new poster a chance.

Oh well

Take care of your self.

Valid counter points. This must be Bennings burner account haha. Let’s hope the team gets back to heading in the right direction. Something I’m sure we agree on. 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

4 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Who cares about tkachuk we missed out on sergachev, mcovey and chychrun. That stings

I would absolutely rather have those Dmen in hindsight. I just mean at the time the obvious choice was Tkachuk. All 4 of those players would be great additions to this team though.