Canucks fans fly #FireBenning banner over Vancouver

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, iceman64 said:

In future news, the Canucks, mentors gone and 2023 rolls around, with cap back at par, both Lou's off the books, and depth developed at the farm and tweaks done as needed on D and bottom six filled with farm guys mixed with kept players that have locked down spots from performance, leading from now to then. leftovers casted off and for the first time in years of franchise history, not only having a very good team but quality younger players anddddd this season's 1st round pick as well and obviously it would be D most likely.. THEN things will be a different story and man I'm going to have fun shoving some crow down some media Twitter accounts throats along with the fire Benning crowd.. looking forward to that for awhile now.. finally! after watching since 74, farm is actually being used and not being sold for a one trick pony.. haters can hate BUT it's better when watching them eat their words

If I say "Benning is a Pussy" will you get mad at me ?

[iceman64]

18 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

2023-2024 would be 10 years. Benning said 4 or 5.

well compared to 40 years of the same ole bull$&!# without a farm and only 2 shots at it, that doesn't equate, plus Jimbo had to develop what he had with vets on the ice and that value won't be seen for awhile except when Bo took the reigns last year but he's been here for awhile so that was his goal, but in 2 years everyone in our core will be experienced enough even more by then and even Podz will have 2 seasons under his belt by then, but we'll have a good team with depth that will bring us a decent length window to go for it, until then, people should just take a chill pill and watch, and be very surprised.. 40 years is a long time coming, 10? whatever! lol sorry but I heard my first game on the car radio in 1974, so in the end, if we go back to the same ole crap of a soft reg season team? no thanks...

[iceman64]

4 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

If I say "Benning is a Pussy" will you get mad at me ?

No I'd disagree though, he did what he had to do.. sometimes it didn't work, some times it did.. LE and JT Miller come to mind

[iceman64]

5 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

If I say "Benning is a Pussy" will you get mad at me ?

Oh and he picked Demko, Petey, Hughes, Podz, Brock, Hogs, so these were all screw ups?!

[RU SERIOUS]

6 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Oh and he picked Demko, Petey, Hughes, Podz, Brock, Hogs, so these were all screw ups?!

Well for all the bad things he screwed up on like Loui E and more recently letting TT walk, he did have some bright moments- I'll admit. HOWEVER, if my facts are correct, I believe he's now the 2nd longest reigning GM in the league and despite the freak appearance in the playoffs last year, we've had nothing but losing seasons since he's been at the helm and things seem to have taken a major step backwards this year.  I'm not sure where to point, whether it's TG, his asst's, the players, the fact we dumped our top goalie and defenseman and a couple of supporting players in one shot -after last season, the schedule, Covid ????   

 

No matter, something has to change because I'm bracing for another post season press conference from JB blaming all of the above plus injuries, plus the lack of depth players, plus the moon was not in the right orbit etc, etc....   and I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of the same excuses year after year and I'm reasonably patient. 

 

As you are well aware we have $40M+ coming off the books after this season and next and obviously a chunk of that will have to go to resigning Quinn and EP but the rest must be wisely invested in the right players as we may not have another window like this for a couple of years afterwards.  So I'm very cautiously optimistic that JB makes some hard decisions and continues the purge he begun last year by NOT resigning any more of the old deadwood players and we finally get some half descent bottom 6 depth players. On the flip side, if JB was let go - I don't think I'd shed tears but would certainly miss his drafting skills.

[oldnews]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:17 PM, awalk said:

https://twitter.com/taj1944/status/1389666351745142785?s=20

 

"Sekeres' memo to Luigi Aquilini: You have an amateur scout running the team right now and it's looking more and more amateur by the day."

 

 

Yep.

 

You're the amateur that called JT MIller a "cap dump", Matt.

 

If anyone is scouting for amateurs, you'd be on the radar.

 

 

[iceman64]

21 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Well for all the bad things he screwed up on like Loui E and more recently letting TT walk, he did have some bright moments- I'll admit. HOWEVER, if my facts are correct, I believe he's now the 2nd longest reigning GM in the league and despite the freak appearance in the playoffs last year, we've had nothing but losing seasons since he's been at the helm and things seem to have taken a major step backwards this year.  I'm not sure where to point, whether it's TG, his asst's, the players, the fact we dumped our top goalie and defenseman and a couple of supporting players in one shot -after last season, the schedule, Covid ????   

 

No matter, something has to change because I'm bracing for another post season press conference from JB blaming all of the above plus injuries, plus the lack of depth players, plus the moon was not in the right orbit etc, etc....   and I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of the same excuses year after year and I'm reasonably patient. 

 

As you are well aware we have $40M+ coming off the books after this season and next and obviously a chunk of that will have to go to resigning Quinn and EP but the rest must be wisely invested in the right players as we may not have another window like this for a couple of years afterwards.  So I'm very cautiously optimistic that JB makes some hard decisions and continues the purge he begun last year by NOT resigning any more of the old deadwood players and we finally get some half descent bottom 6 depth players. On the flip side, if JB was let go - I don't think I'd shed tears but would certainly miss his drafting skills.

TT was a covid casualty, no cap increase at all.. that was hard to take BUT TT not being here doesn't exactly hurt us either, and I'll defer that to Podz and while he's tearing it up on second line on ELC which is crucial because Bo and Brock will need to be resigned as well so saving every penny will be crucial, and we might want sign another high-end D as well but I don't see see it being an issue unless the league bans bridge deals which JB has learned to use. 

 Don't get me started on LE, EVERYONE and his dog was screaming for a player for the twins and if I remember correctly, there were about 5 top candidates to choose from and the first 4 signed quickly and LE was, I think 5th so after a 30 goal teaser season under his belt, it seemed like a gift BUT I don't what happened, I would have made that deal myself actually, knowing the twins were aging but still having the potential to have the last few years of their time here even better and helping keep people in the seats SEEMED like a no brainer, but omg what a pussy!! I would have thought he'd have been able to score 40 a season for at least 2-3 seasons because the twins had that special touch but other than Anson Carter, and Burr, in a smaller way could really maximize their line but I thought it was going to be a match made in hockey heaven.. who knew? (seriously) 

 and I'll defend Jimbo on one thing for sure, injuries, wow, it's always shocked me the amount we've had and even worse, the timing of them, just at exactly the wrong time, we could have beat the Bruins but we had a hobbling D that held out but couldn't hold back the tide after the B's were woken up game 7 3rd period by that hit... ugh.. as I recall and we had 2 of our best Dmen injured and that has also been a part of it, not just for JB but MG and Quinn too, do I know what it was? Nope but we had the worst injuries and scheduling for sooooo long..  and the farm sold for roster spot players, which was empty when JB took over AND a lot of the team locked in by MG which would have worked had the cap not appeared... but holy, injuries and this team? yikes 

 At the end of the day though, I'm glad this team isn't the shi_ show it was before JB showed up but all the bad contracts are gone, and the shattered culture of 2013 and on with it but it's taken awhile for it to happen yes but I can't see a single GM anywhere being able to screw this up now, heck we beat the leafs x2 without our best player and after covid ravaged as well, we're closer than most people think... yeah I get the impatient part BUT I don't want a same ole mediocre seasonal team either, that's way past old..

[Timråfan]

15 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

You're the amateur that called JT MIller a "cap dump", Matt.

 

If anyone is scouting for amateurs, you'd be on the radar.

 

 

Well, Miller was a cap dump for that team. 

You had seven forwards in Lightnings scoring more than Miller.

 

Now Miller is exploiting the factor called "Alien" and being in the top line on a team with first PP time. 

He didn't have a chance to get into Lightnings first line. 

 

 

 

[iceman64]

11 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Well, Miller was a cap dump for that team. 

You had seven forwards in Lightnings scoring more than Miller.

 

Now Miller is exploiting the factor called "Alien" and being in the top line on a team with first PP time. 

He didn't have a chance to get into Lightnings first line. 

 

 

 

Are you on drugs? JT played up and down their line-up as needed and played with Stamkos and looked like he belonged on first line, a total first line player on any other non super stacked team..  It wasn't his talent that kept him off first like like you said, hardly, in fact I laughed when I read that, did you even watch his goals when he played in Tampa?  Most were highlight reel goals, seriously if you didn't then have a look at "JT Miller's best goals" on youtube and then come back and tell me he's not a first line player..  that might change your "opinion" just a tad...

Edited May 8, 2021 by iceman64

[Gurn]

Suprising how many people confuse "cap dump" with "player we need to move" to be cap complaint.

 

 

[The Vancouver Connection]

FIRE BENNING TODAY

[GSP*]

Edit

Edited May 8, 2021 by GSP*

[grandmaster]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:31 PM, Tom Sestito said:

Definitely the biggest problem rotting the organization is the meddling owner but you can’t fire an owner. 

 

 

 

 

I’m sorry but your comment pisses me off.

 

He is the bloody owner and he can do what he wants, when he wants and you have no right to question it. If you don’t like it then stop following the team.
 

He paid a ton of money to solidify this franchise and wants to win. He has always paid to the cap ceiling and is excited about this team. 

He has also done a lot for the community.

 

You are an ungrateful fan. 
 

There are plenty of other NHL/ pro sports teams that would kill to have an owner like ours. 
 

Shame on you.

[grandmaster]

On 5/7/2021 at 9:59 AM, oldnews said:

 

You're the amateur that called JT MIller a "cap dump", Matt.

 

If anyone is scouting for amateurs, you'd be on the radar.

 

 

Can’t stand Sekeres. He sounds so damn smug and that loud breathing just makes my skin crawl

[oldnews]

14 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Well, Miller was a cap dump for that team.

you don't know what that term means.

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

Can’t stand Sekeres. He sounds so damn smug and that loud breathing just makes my skin crawl

when you're unable to produce anything of substance - this is what guys like him need to resort to - to get some of the attention they're desperate for.

 

the guy has no perspective, no talent - couldn't survive in a merit-based field.  

[Tom Sestito]

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

I’m sorry but your comment pisses me off.

 

He is the bloody owner and he can do what he wants, when he wants and you have no right to question it. If you don’t like it then stop following the team.
 

He paid a ton of money to solidify this franchise and wants to win. He has always paid to the cap ceiling and is excited about this team. 

He has also done a lot for the community.

 

You are an ungrateful fan. 
 

There are plenty of other NHL/ pro sports teams that would kill to have an owner like ours. 
 

Shame on you.

Am I being fanshamed? What the hell. 

 

Gatekeeper of what a good fan is. Lmfao

[Timråfan]

3 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Are you on drugs? JT played up and down their line-up as needed and played with Stamkos and looked like he belonged on first line, a total first line player on any other non super stacked team..  It wasn't his talent that kept him off first like like you said, hardly, in fact I laughed when I read that, did you even watch his goals when he played in Tampa?  Most were highlight reel goals, seriously if you didn't then have a look at "JT Miller's best goals" on youtube and then come back and tell me he's not a first line player..  that might change your "opinion" just a tad...

So why did they drop him?

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

you don't know what that term means.

Well, he’s not a cap dump like Loui but the Lightning are a completely different team.

 

so why did they drop him off at our gates?

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

Well, he’s not a cap dump like Loui but the Lightning are a completely different team.

 

so why did they drop him off at our gates?

 

I appreciate the engagement on the substance of the question (as opposed to denial/reaction that many posters would respond with).

 

A "cap dump" - dump being the operative word in that term - is a negative value contract - a player whose performance relative to their terms does not live up to what would be 'expected' - and therefore takes/requires assets to "dump" - as you correctly point out in the example of Eriksson.  

 

Moving cap - or needing to move cap - alone - does not make a player a cap "dump."

 

Lots of legit examples of "cap dumps" - the Leafs giving up a 1st to dump Marleau - that was a cap dump.  A player whose performance does not live up to their contract - that a team - usually a competitive or contending team - dumps in order to enable them to better utilize that cap space.

 

Miller gained a sizeable return - still arguably slightly less than market value - but nevertheless a 1st round pick + was spent to ACQUIRE that player - with that contract.   That is the opposite of a "cap dump" - regardless of whether Tampa was tight to the cap / needed to move cap, or not.

 

As a relative 'comparable' - in context - Tampa repeatedly waived Tyler Johnson - no one would claim him - he is an underperfroming player/contract with negative value.  They might have opted to dump him instead - but it would have cost them assets to clear that cap space - instead they opted to gain assets for a positively valued player/contract (Miller) instead.  There are degrees of that negative value - I suppose running to borderline neutral (ie a team may 'dump' a player for nothing - waiving a player might arguably be considered a 'dump' - but generally even that circumstance would be borderline neutral (if claimed), so debatable whether Johnson being waived (if he were claimed)  would be considered a "cap dump".

 

Perhaps the thing to do is create a term that refers to the different circumstance/context - ie a "cap (space) move" - or a "cap (space) clear" - that would refer to / illustrate the type of circumstances under which Miller was moved.  Did Tampa need to move cap?  Yes.  Did they need to move Miller?  Not necessarily.  Would they rather have moved alternative cap, a contract that had negative as opposed to positive value - probably (obviously they'd rather move Johnson's waived cap - but there were no takers - and the cost of moving Johnson's 4 years x 5 million would probably have been relatively heavy, particularly in the context of the costs of moving cap in recent years) - but the market value of Miller - as reconfirmed/evidenced since that deal - was/is considerably positive.  In fact, ELC/RFA deals aside, it's not easy to find a better value contract (ie a point per game player at 5.25 million, is, or should be considered virtually a consensus extremely good value contract - one of the better cap value in the league (ie no one "dumps" that).

 

It's kind of similar to referring to the way some players are referred to as "sheltered" - when in fact they are not.

Sheltered has a particular set of conditions that it refers to - ie usually a young player, usually a young player that does not have a particularly developed defensive game - and their team/coaching staff "shelters" them - meaning they avoid difficult matchups whereever possible, they tilt the ice for them as much as possible with high ozone starts, and they partner them with or give them linemates that are veterans, usually solid two way players, who can insulated them from too much exposure - ie create conditions for that young player to be successful where they're not thrown into 'hard minutes' prematurely, or facing matchups/circumstances that are generally over their head.  I've heard players like Motte, or the Sedins referred to as "sheltered" - but one of those conditions of deployment (ie high ozone starts) does not, alone, make that player sheltered.   Ie - the Sedins got very high ozone starts (to play to their strengths) - however, they did not need veteran linemates to insulate them, and AV in particular never bothered to avoid matchups - they would regularly face the opposition's best - there was no real need for them to avoid those circumstances - they could handle themselves/produce against the best.  A player like Motte may be young - may play with a veteran like Beagle - but is not 'sheltered' - handles very 'hard minutes' alongside Beagle, very low ozone starts, etc. 

The differences may seem 'subtle' - but they're not really - and it is not accurate to refer to guys like them as 'sheltered' or to Miller as a "cap dump" - those are false equivalencies.

 

Edit - the problem with the term "cap dump" - is the negative connotation - and let's be real - when that deal took place this market blew a head gasket - most of it based on nonsense that ridiculously undervalued Miller (ie the insistence that he's a 'bottom six' - some folks thinking it 'should have' cost us a 5th round pick - and not helped by the fact the talking heads like Sekeres in the market were spouting moronic nonsense...that, in part, is what 'underlies' my resistance/reaction to that term being used with reference to Miller.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by oldnews