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[Rumour] Muller as Canucks Assistant Coach?

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50 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That’s true. I’d be interested in seeing the leaguewide stats, though. Just watching the playoffs, it seems like most teams run around 70-75% drop pass/second wave on their PP breakouts, just by my eye test (I could be way off, of course).

 

I think having a full season of Pettersson will help us, but I also think we need to be coaching differently on the PP, because our breakouts are much too predictable, and we should be able to be more creative, and effective, even without Pettersson in the lineup, just given the talents of the other personnel available on the PP units.

 

EDIT: I also think our drop pass breakouts need to be more varied, as far as how they are actually executed. As in whether it’s a short drop or long reverse pass, and where it actually happens on the ice. Ideally, it’s not just one repeated play, but several different options, so that even the “predictable” drop pass isn’t easily anticipated.

PP entry is really interesting to watch. If the D stand up at the blue line, the only way to attack it is by using speed to enter the zone. It's the parallel passes and the soft back hand passes at the blue line that drive me crazy in the zone set up. The Canucks try almost every player on the 1st PP unit going with speed. Horvat in my opinion is the best of the group, he does beat that first line of D most often. As of now the Canucks have no one with MacKinnon, Barzal, or McDavid speed to do it regularly, and to perfection. 

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12 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don’t think so. I noticed that when Benning talked about the rest of the coaching staff he was very noncommittal and didn’t mention either one of them specifically. He said that they still had to evaluate the remainder of the coaching staff, and only spoke specifically about Ian Clark, when asked. 
 

I’m thinking, and desperately hoping, that this means they’re on their way out. It would be the right move. Those two assistants aren’t cutting it and don’t deserve a second extension at all. 

Yeah, Green seems to be the only one that benefitted from the subpar assistants - hopefully by hiring veteran assistants (as potential replacements for Green) it will (also) allow Green to continue evolving, as well.

 

Perhaps figuring out the coaching staff and the schemes (first) would be a prudent initial move in this offseason before anymore roster tweaking; just look at Schmidts’ performance in Vegas vs Canucks or Tanev with the Flakes.

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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On 6/6/2021 at 5:56 AM, granpappy said:

does he know anything about powerplays?

He ran Montreal’s power play  the past few years and it hasn’t been good 

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On 6/5/2021 at 8:53 AM, King Heffy said:

Burrows runs a similar system to Brown, which clearly doesn't work here; he is also doing well in Montreal and unlikely to want to leave.  Muller's got a ton of experience and wouldn't have gotten the opportunity as a head coach if he wasn't a damn good assistant.  Brown and Baumgartner were huge problems for us last year; I am hopeful that this shows that management is going to force Green to hire actual coaches to assist him instead of those clowns.

coaches don"t hire.

that is why Brind Amourheld out to get his assisstants rehired with him

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22 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That’s true. I’d be interested in seeing the leaguewide stats, though. Just watching the playoffs, it seems like most teams run around 70-75% drop pass/second wave on their PP breakouts, just by my eye test (I could be way off, of course).

 

I think having a full season of Pettersson will help us, but I also think we need to be coaching differently on the PP, because our breakouts are much too predictable, and we should be able to be more creative, and effective, even without Pettersson in the lineup, just given the talents of the other personnel available on the PP units.

 

EDIT: I also think our drop pass breakouts need to be more varied, as far as how they are actually executed. As in whether it’s a short drop or long reverse pass, and where it actually happens on the ice. Ideally, it’s not just one repeated play, but several different options, so that even the “predictable” drop pass isn’t easily anticipated.

I agree there are different types, it seems the canucks favour the long reverse, and usually at the centre line, or back at out defensive blue line. 

 

for me the drop pass if effective as a way of changinf the angle of attack to beat the first line of defenders by going back against the grain, these are done relativly close to the entry point and should be quick changes. The canucks drop pass yes allows for the player to pick up speed, but there no subtly to it, and they are telegraphed.

 

changing itup an mixing up the type and where would be good, nothing wrong with trying some speed entrys and then maybe dropping a quck one to a player cutting back inside to catch them on their off side

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Just now, UKNuck96 said:

I agree there are different types, it seems the canucks favour the long reverse, and usually at the centre line, or back at out defensive blue line. 

 

for me the drop pass if effective as a way of changinf the angle of attack to beat the first line of defenders by going back against the grain, these are done relativly close to the entry point and should be quick changes. The canucks drop pass yes allows for the player to pick up speed, but there no subtly to it, and they are telegraphed.

 

changing itup an mixing up the type and where would be good, nothing wrong with trying some speed entrys and then maybe dropping a quck one to a player cutting back inside to catch them on their off side

I think looking at some other sports who have similar issues with having to beat a line of players could see some more intresting developments.

 

One which springs to mind instantly is Rugby, and even more specifically Rugby League - yes they would need to be adjusted to fit into the number of players and space confines of a rink but the movement and attacking principles are very similar

 

Backs moves - Rugby Coach Weekly

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12 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

for me the drop pass if effective as a way of changinf the angle of attack to beat the first line of defenders by going back against the grain, these are done relativly close to the entry point and should be quick changes. The canucks drop pass yes allows for the player to pick up speed, but there no subtly to it, and they are telegraphed.

 

Exactly!  When the Sedins used to do it, even though the defenders knew they were going to attempt a backpass, ithey would usually either do it near the blue line, or shortly after they gained entry, to push the D back - and then that would either result in a shot from the point or the spin-cycle that would exhaust the D (or both).  And even then, the backpass was more of a stopping the puck for the next player coming with speed to pick up, and less of a multi-provincial roadtrip.  The current version of the drop pass is done at such distance that not only does it take them longer to enter the zone (and that's not even a guarantee because of the next point), but it also gives the defending team ample time to set up their wall to block entry into the zone - because as the defending team, you can see the play unfold in front of you.

 

Being predictable makes it easy to set up against.  The special teams really need to have the leeway to switch things up from time to time (and the courage to execute those switches), just to keep the other teams on their toes.

 

The other part of the power play - or even 5v5 - that I have issue with (but less so than the drop-pass entry) is the seeming sole reliance on periphery play.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't drink, or something like that.  Take. The. Bloody. Shot.  Sometimes it results in a juicy rebound that someone who's brave enough to hang out in front of the net (and take the hacks and whacks) can grind in for a greasy goal.  Too often, I see them going for the "perfect play".  Shoot the &^@#ing puck already.  Maybe you could take out an opposing Dman or something with it - but at least it'll result in more opportunities where the oppsing players need to quickly make up their mind about which is their greater priority: getting down to block the puck, boxing out the guy in front, or attacking the shooter.  Each additional pass increases the chances that the opposing team will cut the passing lane and take the puck out on a possible breakaway.

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On 6/5/2021 at 10:17 AM, shayster007 said:

I highly doubt that will happen. I have no idea where this notion is coming from. We made the playoffs the season before last. Not only made the playoffs, but won the first round being the heavy underdog. We then engaged with a slugfest and had a tight series, again as a heavy underdog.

 

The next year we had a huge turn over in our crew. We lost our season MVP, and some real heart players. Had a tough start to the season and then start scrapping our way back into the picture. If not for covid obliterating our team, we could have had a very real chance of making the playoffs and then who knows what happens. Look at Montreal now.

 

If the fire Benning hasn't taught us anything, it's not a silent majority hating management right now. It's a number of loud mouths being encouraged by some of the media pundits. I reckon the average fan can use basic logic and see what happened last season, and is very positive about the direction of the team.

so funny how everyone that wants Benning fired is influenced by the media

i want Benning fired, but would not embarrass myself at that rally, I would rally for trees, pipelines,dead children long before I would waste my time rallying in front of a sports arena

 

last off-season we lost our MVP, who lost his job in the previous playoffs to our next MVP

the coaching staff did not have the team ready for game one, which is funny because the pundits that support Green say he always has his team ready, even when they are out of the playoff race. Do you not see the irony?

Look at Montreal, changed coaches mid-season while in a playoff spot, floundered a bit, but, look at Montreal now!

 

What is it about the Canuck Brass faithfull that you need to look to last season?

Did 2012 not teach you anything?

this team tried to recreate 2011 for seven years, and failed.

 

Oh, we beat the Stanley Cup Champs in the playoffs last season

The Blues are the same as the 2012 Canucks, the only difference is they won the last game of their playoff run

but they are as done as the 2012 Canucks, look how good they did this year against Colorado

Did Colorado just beat the Stanley cup champs?

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Sign the guy already.   Lindens best comp IMO, for the era they played in.  Both warriors, second overalls, Captains/Leaders .... And TG also played in the same era too.   Would be just fine with Muller helping our coaching staff.   He'd be great in the locker room as well.   He's a winner too. 

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1 hour ago, lmm said:

so funny how everyone that wants Benning fired is influenced by the media

i want Benning fired, but would not embarrass myself at that rally, I would rally for trees, pipelines,dead children long before I would waste my time rallying in front of a sports arena

 

last off-season we lost our MVP, who lost his job in the previous playoffs to our next MVP

the coaching staff did not have the team ready for game one, which is funny because the pundits that support Green say he always has his team ready, even when they are out of the playoff race. Do you not see the irony?

Look at Montreal, changed coaches mid-season while in a playoff spot, floundered a bit, but, look at Montreal now!

 

What is it about the Canuck Brass faithfull that you need to look to last season?

Did 2012 not teach you anything?

this team tried to recreate 2011 for seven years, and failed.

 

Oh, we beat the Stanley Cup Champs in the playoffs last season

The Blues are the same as the 2012 Canucks, the only difference is they won the last game of their playoff run

but they are as done as the 2012 Canucks, look how good they did this year against Colorado

Did Colorado just beat the Stanley cup champs?

Nice rant, but I can't really figure out what the point you're trying to make is. I said nothing about every fan being influenced by the media. I said the vocal few numb skulls who would show up to a rally are. My post was in regards to people chanting at a game. I don't think our average fans are dumb enough to do that, and the ones that are, would be the few who showed up to such a  rediculous rally.

 

Not to mention the whole 2nd part of your post doesn't apply to this situation at all. Further more, of freaking course they are trying to recreate a cup contending team. Isn't every team in the league attempting to build a cup contender. How did you attempt to frame that as a negative? 

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Lol.   They aren't trying to re-create 2011.   They did give it at best "the old college try" for two seasons and said goodbye to everyone but the Sedins and Edler in 2017.   Tanev played what two games?   

 

JB is trying to build a team from scratch.   That takes time these days.  

 

Isn't COL getting schooled, the same way we did, against Vegas right now?  Outshot 2-1 since game one.    And COL has been rebuilding 3 years longer then we have including JB first three years - so really 6 years longer.   

 

JB isn't awesome, but he's not terrible either.   And TG isn't a bad coach.   Multiple job offers waiting for him if he didn't re-sign doesn't scream bad does it?    This teams roster isn't good enough yet.    MIN ... we beat them, didn't they give Vegas a hard time?   They were also a top 3 defensive team when we played them in the Fall ....my memory isn't what it used to be but isn't that bad either.  

 

I don't care about the regular season other then just making the playoffs.   Is our team built for the playoffs is the only question that matters, and so far we've been shown by Vegas - just like COL is also finding out (and Dallas was outplayed as well last conference final but we got in their heads and they just couldn't score) ....  So far well let's see if COL makes it through 17 playoff type games.   If you don't like that then maybe just say 13 playoff games.  

 

TG IS a good coach.   JB is a good drafter otherwise average.   Willing to wait and see what they can do next year before pulling the plug.   This year was just a stupid stupid year for a lot of reasons.    A mulligan.   Agree TG did not have the guys ready.    That's more on the roster, schedule no training camp then anything.   If you didn't notice we almost clawed our way back until Covid.   But some blame that on management too. 

 

I have watched this team for ages now, and they deserve a re-boot.   And another go.   We will find out soon (next year) exactly what needs to go, and what needs to stay.   Both players (nobody should be safe, not even EP and especially not QHs)  and coaches and management.    We are NOT a vet team.   Our core hasn't even entered the window yet.  

I agree with most of that

I m a little less likely than some to give a mulligan for this whole season

If the Canucks were in a better position when covid hit I would be more willing to blame covid for there troubles, but they were already needing to play .667 for the remainder of the season, so covid wiped out their "faint hope". Post covid I excused the players almost entirely. I thought they were pretty much   a real time experiment. I will not be surprized if some players have lasting effects next season.

 

Colorado is interesting, I picked them over Vegas, but now that I have seen how young and small their D is, I think they might run into the same problems Vancouver did against Big Bad Vegas. I wonder what Joe was thinking trading Pateryn for Dubie. Their D did not need to get smaller with Vegas on the horizon.

 

I think you misunderstood what I said about re-creating 2011. I meant for 2012 -2017 they tried to get back into the playoffs with a team that was never going to go anywhere.

 

Re: Green, I think we are both pretty clear on each others point of view. But I will add that I said 3 years ago that I thought Green would likely be a good coach after he moves on from Vancouver. But after last playoffs, (where I feel he out-coached Eveson and Berube) he did not seem to learn anything from the experience. So, I wonder if Green's stubbon attitude will hamper him in the long fun.

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On 6/5/2021 at 10:17 AM, shayster007 said:

I highly doubt that will happen. I have no idea where this notion is coming from. We made the playoffs the season before last. Not only made the playoffs, but won the first round being the heavy underdog. We then engaged with a slugfest and had a tight series, again as a heavy underdog.

 

The next year we had a huge turn over in our crew. We lost our season MVP, and some real heart players. Had a tough start to the season and then start scrapping our way back into the picture. If not for covid obliterating our team, we could have had a very real chance of making the playoffs and then who knows what happens. Look at Montreal now.

 

If the fire Benning hasn't taught us anything, it's not a silent majority hating management right now. It's a number of loud mouths being encouraged by some of the media pundits. I reckon the average fan can use basic logic and see what happened last season, and is very positive about the direction of the team.

 

3 hours ago, shayster007 said:

Nice rant, but I can't really figure out what the point you're trying to make is. I said nothing about every fan being influenced by the media. I said the vocal few numb skulls who would show up to a rally are. My post was in regards to people chanting at a game. I don't think our average fans are dumb enough to do that, and the ones that are, would be the few who showed up to such a  rediculous rally.

 

Not to mention the whole 2nd part of your post doesn't apply to this situation at all. Further more, of freaking course they are trying to recreate a cup contending team. Isn't every team in the league attempting to build a cup contender. How did you attempt to frame that as a negative? 

first let me paraphrase what I think you are saying. If I am right say so, if I am wrong, then I can't figure out what you are saying either.

 

1 you don't think we need/will get any new coaches because we beat (an overrated, my words not yours) Blues team and our goaltending made the Vegas series look more respectible than it was (again my words). So we should keep the current staff (that is your point)

 

2 we lost some good players including our MVP , then played bad, but can blame it all on covid

 

3because the poorly planned revolt was poorly attended, the "average fans"  all agree with you that changes need not be made because all of our problems are covid's fault

the media,(drance) is a low budget magician who'se only goal in life is to hypnotize poor slobs into revolt (always blame the media bacause that diminishes all arguments )

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47 minutes ago, lmm said:

 

first let me paraphrase what I think you are saying. If I am right say so, if I am wrong, then I can't figure out what you are saying either.

 

1 you don't think we need/will get any new coaches because we beat (an overrated, my words not yours) Blues team and our goaltending made the Vegas series look more respectible than it was (again my words). So we should keep the current staff (that is your point)

 

2 we lost some good players including our MVP , then played bad, but can blame it all on covid

 

3because the poorly planned revolt was poorly attended, the "average fans"  all agree with you that changes need not be made because all of our problems are covid's fault

the media,(drance) is a low budget magician who'se only goal in life is to hypnotize poor slobs into revolt (always blame the media bacause that diminishes all arguments )

This peticular conversation had nothing to do with the coaches. Nor did you even mention them in your first rant. I have been vocal with my support of Green, but also in my support of a new assistant coaching staff as our powerplay was dreadful and defense was average at best. So I have zero idea why you even started talking about that, besides you just want to complain and didn't actually pay attention to why I was in this conversation. Based off our previous experience, I'll say that's probably what you did here.

 

 

I brought up winning a round of the playoffs (not even mentioning the play in) and taking it to Vegas on a tight series to show the potential in our very young team. Again, nothing to do with the coaches.

 

Yes, we lost a huge chunk of our team which led to a slow start with a lack of preseason letting the new team composition work together. Yes, covid is an excuse. No doubt in my mind at all. We were making a playoff push then the majority of our team got covid and it didn't go our way. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this year was just a tough year for the Canucks.

 

Based off polls on this site, a lot of conversation with fans (the great thing working in healthcare and getting to talk to a ton of different people everyday), Reddit, radio, the average fan is smart enough to see this year was a crap year but this team has endless potential. My argument is anyone going to the game to complain and cheer to fire Benning is an idiot. The same people who showed up at the fire Benning 'protest'. I think the people of vancouver are much more logical to see what's happening here and not that dumb to show up somewhere just to be a loud mouth douche.

 

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11 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

This peticular conversation had nothing to do with the coaches. Nor did you even mention them in your first rant. I have been vocal with my support of Green, but also in my support of a new assistant coaching staff as our powerplay was dreadful and defense was average at best. So I have zero idea why you even started talking about that, besides you just want to complain and didn't actually pay attention to why I was in this conversation. Based off our previous experience, I'll say that's probably what you did here.

 

 

I brought up winning a round of the playoffs (not even mentioning the play in) and taking it to Vegas on a tight series to show the potential in our very young team. Again, nothing to do with the coaches.

 

Yes, we lost a huge chunk of our team which led to a slow start with a lack of preseason letting the new team composition work together. Yes, covid is an excuse. No doubt in my mind at all. We were making a playoff push then the majority of our team got covid and it didn't go our way. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this year was just a tough year for the Canucks.

 

Based off polls on this site, a lot of conversation with fans (the great thing working in healthcare and getting to talk to a ton of different people everyday), Reddit, radio, the average fan is smart enough to see this year was a crap year but this team has endless potential. My argument is anyone going to the game to complain and cheer to fire Benning is an idiot. The same people who showed up at the fire Benning 'protest'. I think the people of vancouver are much more logical to see what's happening here and not that dumb to show up somewhere just to be a loud mouth douche.

 

Oh, and I thought when  you said, "I highly doubt that will happen. I have no idea where this notion is coming from" you were talking about the subject of this thread, Kirk Muller being hired as a coach

my bad.

I see, you don't think the average fan will boo if the teams stinks like it did this year coming out of the gate.

 

do you think this because the Fire Benning git had poor attendance?

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22 minutes ago, lmm said:

Oh, and I thought when  you said, "I highly doubt that will happen. I have no idea where this notion is coming from" you were talking about the subject of this thread, Kirk Muller being hired as a coach

my bad.

I see, you don't think the average fan will boo if the teams stinks like it did this year coming out of the gate.

 

do you think this because the Fire Benning git had poor attendance?

Now we're on the same page. I was replying to someone in regards to fans showing up at the game and chanting to fire people. I just don't see Vancouver fans being that toxic on average and it's a small group of people, like the fire Benning protest that would do something like that.

 

I don't think the average fan will boo, no. We are a rebuilding team. I think the average fan supports our young core and can see the potential in what our young team is capable of.

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On 6/5/2021 at 6:46 AM, Provost said:

Dhaliwal reporting that Muller’s name has come up as an assistant.

 

That would be a good thing.

 

 

Muller one day Shaw the next if you say a name a day sooner or later he will get one right

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On 6/5/2021 at 7:51 AM, laddie said:

Their power play was horrible under Muller and didn’t improve until March when Alex Burrows took over. Perhaps we should consider bringing Burrows back as an Assistant Coach instead.

My hunch is Burrows is their pre game dynamite. The team reflects his all out effort. Sign him if possible. I think Hansen deserves a shot before Muller. 

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