[Rumour] Friedman: Dougie Hamilton given permission to talk to other teams re: sign and trade

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we're assuming that we can get someone as good to replace him... thats a big risk. Its easier to find left side d so for me, I'd be exposing Nate if we have to choose which veteran to dangle to Seattle. 

 

The slide rule gang calling Myers "replacement level" is hilarious. Sure, lets replace Myers with Chatfield or Stecher, thats gonna work. 

I think we could get someone different and/or cheaper. Is... say Larsson at $4-5 better or worse?

 

Probably better defensively but worse offensively. A bit less physical.

[Provost]

50 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

@aGENT

 

are you guys forgetting we have ONE right shot d under contract? 

There is an assumption from all parties and reporting that Hamonic will be available to us after expansion if we want him and signing a guy like Risto gives us an extra body... so we would still have enough bodies on the right side.  Correcting the D isn't going to be an overnight process, Edler and Hamonic are short term placeholders for sure, but also likely represent reasonably efficient contracts for what dollars they should cost.

Hughes-Hamonic
Edler-Ristolainen
Juolevi/Rathbone- Schmidt/Myers

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

There is an assumption from all parties and reporting that Hamonic will be available to us after expansion if we want him and signing a guy like Risto gives us an extra body... so we would still have enough bodies on the right side.  Correcting the D isn't going to be an overnight process, Edler and Hamonic are short term placeholders for sure, but also likely represent reasonably efficient contracts for what dollars they should cost.

Hughes-Hamonic
Edler-Ristolainen
Juolevi/Rathbone- Schmidt/Myers

sure but do you take the risk of losing Myers to expansion before trading for Risto and re-signing Hamonic? I don't think Jim does. 

[JM_]

42 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think we could get someone different and/or cheaper. Is... say Larsson at $4-5 better or worse?

 

Probably better defensively but worse offensively. A bit less physical.

dunno, seems risky to me to lose Myers as the first step. You may end up with a right side of Bowey, Chatfield and Woo. 

[Gawdzukes]

17 hours ago, Mustard Tiger said:

 

I'm surprised it took that long for the CDC police to ticket me on that one haha. As soon as i hit send i'm like " ahh sh*t, Hamonic, ferland... "

The CDC police 

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

@aGENT

 

are you guys forgetting we have ONE right shot d under contract? 

 

5 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

dunno, seems risky to me to lose Myers as the first step. You may end up with a right side of Bowey, Chatfield and Woo. 

You only expose Myers if you already have a RD (like Risto for example) coming back ahead of the ED.

 

Schmidt can still play right if need be. And Hamonic feels like a layup at this point.

 

Risto, Schmidt and likely Hamonic isn't a bad right side at all 

 

And there's the damask chance Seattle doesn't take Myers as well (though then cap gets iffy).

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

You only expose Myers if you already have a RD (like Risto for example) coming back ahead of the ED.

 

Schmidt can still play right if need be. And Hamonic feels like a layup at this point.

 

Risto, Schmidt and likely Hamonic isn't a bad right side at all 

 

And there's the damask chance Seattle doesn't take Myers as well (though then cap gets iffy).

sure but the problem is we don't have the cap for that, or Jim goes ahead with it anyway and then tries to clear the cap space.... but other GMs will be salivating.

 

I just don't see how we make any significant move that doesn't involve moving cap either before or as part of a deal.

 

E.g., Sam Reinhart - they pretty much have to take Loui if they want the 9th oa. I think it would be dumb for them not to do that, no one would give them a higher pick for Sam. But GMs don't like to fix other peoples problems too often. 

 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:39 PM, Alflives said:

Na.  Hughes is fabulous.  He holds the record for playoff points by a rookie D.  That's a guy who can definitely play, especially in the hardest games.  

Makar is right behind him with like 2 less points in 2 less games and has a better ppg in playoffs as a rookie D than Hughes I believe and Hieskanen is like top 5 all time in playoffs points in that same playoffs as a defenceman.

[Junkyard Dog]

Only way we could maybe afford Hamilton is if one of Schmidt/Myers is dealt. Even then how much do the Canes want in a sign and trade?  
 

Rather try to get rid of one of Schmidt/Myers and sign two of Hamonic/Savard/Larson/Montour(preferably Larson/Savard). Signing two of them would probably equate to whatever Hamilton signs for.  
 

If we can get we rid of one or Schmidt/Myers and Holtby we would have more flexibility to reshape our D-core. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Junkyard Dog

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Only way we could maybe afford Hamilton is if one of Schmidt/Myers is dealt. Even then how much do the Canes want in a sign and trade?  
 

Rather try to get rid of one of Schmidt/Myers and sign two of Hamonic/Savard/Larson/Montour(preferably Larson/Savard). Signing two of them would probably equate to whatever Hamilton signs for.  
 

 

As much as I think we need a Hamonic/Savard/Larson type I don’t really think we should be committing any term to players like that. Those are players you can easily add at the deadline to put you over the top.

 

I think with the possibilities of this years expansion draft we should really be looking to fill holes on D long term with some smart trades.

 

A blockbuster like Jones? A medium level deal like Cernak? Or a couple minor deals for undervalued guys like Foote?

[D.B Cooper]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

I think we could get someone different and/or cheaper. Is... say Larsson at $4-5 better or worse?

 

Probably better defensively but worse offensively. A bit less physical.

I would take Myers at 6 over Larsson at 4.  
Im sure the hit numbers aren’t too far apart, but Myers plays a MUCH more physical game. 
And Larsson might be a little bit better D wise. 
Myers has him beat offensively by almost double every year.  
 

Larsson kinda sucks, and only a select few have issues with Myers.  

[Alflives]

40 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Makar is right behind him with like 2 less points in 2 less games and has a better ppg in playoffs as a rookie D than Hughes I believe and Hieskanen is like top 5 all time in playoffs points in that same playoffs as a defenceman.

True, but Hughes has the record.  

[Bertuzzipunch]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True, but Hughes has the record.  

Not good enough

[Junkyard Dog]

52 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

As much as I think we need a Hamonic/Savard/Larson type I don’t really think we should be committing any term to players like that. Those are players you can easily add at the deadline to put you over the top.

 

I think with the possibilities of this years expansion draft we should really be looking to fill holes on D long term with some smart trades.

 

A blockbuster like Jones? A medium level deal like Cernak? Or a couple minor deals for undervalued guys like Foote?

We won’t be in a position to make a deadline move if we have the same sort of D-core. Need to find better fits for our puck movers Schmidt/Hughes/Rathbone. 
 

Blockbusters usually are very costly and it is very hard to find cheap deals for quality players there usually has to be specific circumstances, luck and a level of cost(highest bidder). 
 

Either way we’ll have to commit money and term to a guy like Jones or Cernak(who probably won’t be traded). 
 

FAs only cost cap space. We don’t lose assets to acquire them.  Just don’t commit long-term. 

[Junkyard Dog]

34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True, but Hughes has the record.  

All I was pointing out is that it isn’t as much of a milestone compared to how good those other 2 were that playoffs. Compared to the average NHLer yeah it is significant but to Heiskanen/Makar it doesn’t mean as much. 
 

Also Heiskanen has the better milestone IMO having a the 4th most points in a single playoffs all-time as defensman. That’s more impressive to me seeing how he’s more than just aoffensive/puck moving defenseman unlike our Hughes and to a lesser extent Makar. 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

sure but the problem is we don't have the cap for that, or Jim goes ahead with it anyway and then tries to clear the cap space.... but other GMs will be salivating.

 

I just don't see how we make any significant move that doesn't involve moving cap either before or as part of a deal.

 

E.g., Sam Reinhart - they pretty much have to take Loui if they want the 9th oa. I think it would be dumb for them not to do that, no one would give them a higher pick for Sam. But GMs don't like to fix other peoples problems too often. 

 

 

We have SOME cap. We could pull off a move like this. Plus it seems Benning has 'something' up his sleeve (Louie retiring? Already 'made' a deal to move some?).

 

But I agree, we'd likely need to at least be sending Roussel back in the suggested Reinhart-9th deal.

 

Really it's quite hard to armchair any of this with so little information on what is likely to happen though.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, drummerboy said:

I would take Myers at 6 over Larsson at 4.  
Im sure the hit numbers aren’t too far apart, but Myers plays a MUCH more physical game. 
And Larsson might be a little bit better D wise. 
Myers has him beat offensively by almost double every year.  
 

Larsson kinda sucks, and only a select few have issues with Myers.  

Larsson is a (more physical) Tanev type. He gets flack for not being 'more' than that, but both those guys are still very solid players (and was/would likely be solid partners for Hughes).

 

Myers is solid as well. But is Myers better than 'Mr X' + Larsson...?

 

What if 'Mr X' is Mayfield? I think I take Larsson+Mayfield over Myers personally.

Edited June 16, 2021 by aGENT

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

I would take Myers at 6 over Larsson at 4.  
Im sure the hit numbers aren’t too far apart, but Myers plays a MUCH more physical game. 
And Larsson might be a little bit better D wise. 
Myers has him beat offensively by almost double every year.  
 

Larsson kinda sucks, and only a select few have issues with Myers.  

Larsson is a lot more physical and blocks a lot more shots. Myers is more of a stick first, body second defender while Larsson is the opposite being body first, stick second. 
 

128 blocks and 166 hits for Larsson last season. 
 

74 blocks and 61 hits for Myers last season. 
 

Larsson is more of a physical defensive D while Myers is more of a jack of all master of none two-way defender. 
 

We need more physical/defensive guys for our puck movers like Hughes/Schmidt/Rathbone. These types are the best fits. Poise defensive D like a Tanev/Martinez/Toews or a physical stay at home defensive D like Larsson/Savard/Graves/McNabb

[Sp3nny]

2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

I would take Myers at 6 over Larsson at 4.  
Im sure the hit numbers aren’t too far apart, but Myers plays a MUCH more physical game. 
And Larsson might be a little bit better D wise. 
Myers has him beat offensively by almost double every year.  
 

Larsson kinda sucks, and only a select few have issues with Myers.  

Sorry, but IMO Larsson is way more physical than Myers. I would very easily take Larsson over Myers, especially at a $2M discount. They both don't bring much offensively, but Larsson is a hit and block machine defensively. I view Larsson very similar to what Edler is now, but younger and a bit quicker.

[shazzam]

Are we trying to build the softest team?