What Lessons Have The Habs Taught Us?

lmm · July 7, 2021

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess you can try to make any comp you want to, it just might not be all that useful.

but it is useful

isn't that what draft lists consist of

isn't that what happens when the BPA is selected?

in 2014 The Canucks picked Virtanen over Nylader and Ehlers

in 2017 Jersey selected Hishier over Makar and Petterson

Jim traded a forward for Gudbranson, then Gudbranson for a forward

JM_ · July 7, 2021

1 minute ago, lmm said:

but it is useful

isn't that what draft lists consist of

isn't that what happens when the BPA is selected?

in 2014 The Canucks picked Virtanen over Nylader and Ehlers

in 2017 Jersey selected Hishier over Makar and Petterson

Jim traded a forward for Gudbranson, then Gudbranson for a forward

the only comp in that list that seems useful to me is the Jake vs other F's.

BPA is a measure of how skilled and/or NHL ready a kid is regardless of position.

Guddy for McCann was based on team need

Alflives · July 7, 2021

1 minute ago, lmm said:

but it is useful

isn't that what draft lists consist of

isn't that what happens when the BPA is selected?

in 2014 The Canucks picked Virtanen over Nylader and Ehlers

in 2017 Jersey selected Hishier over Makar and Petterson

Jim traded a forward for Gudbranson, then Gudbranson for a forward

We don’t know Benning’s tiering Of BPA though. What the Habs have taught us, or reinforced, is nant win the ?Cup paying any player 10 million. Leafs have three! :lol:

lmm · July 7, 2021

On 7/4/2021 at 4:55 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

its actually a really unfair comparison to both players, Podz and CC are nothing alike, won't score alike, won't contribute alike, ever.

The right comparison imo with our team is with Hoglander. It'll be really interesting to see which guy performs better in the playoffs.

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the only comp in that list that seems useful to me is the Jake vs other F's.

BPA is a measure of how skilled and/or NHL ready a kid is regardless of position.

Guddy for McCann was based on team need

but isn't the Podz /CC comparison the same as Jake/ Ehlers

lmm · July 7, 2021

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We don’t know Benning’s tiering Of BPA though. What the Habs have taught us, or reinforced, is nant win the ?Cup paying any player 10 million. Leafs have three!

Carey Price

or are you saying Tampa will win the Cup because Price makes $10.5 while Kuch and Vaselevski make $9.5?

not sure why people want to always talk about the Leafs, but ttheir top 3 contracts average over $11 amd somehwat showcases their entitlement issues

JM_ · July 7, 2021

27 minutes ago, lmm said:

but isn't the Podz /CC comparison the same as Jake/ Ehlers

I suppose a bit, its just CC is such a tiny dude, he'll never be a physical force at all, or contribute to a forecheck. We could comp them on surface level scoring stats I guess.

lmm · July 7, 2021

27 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I suppose a bit, its just CC is such a tiny dude, he'll never be a physical force at all, or contribute to a forecheck. We could comp them on surface level scoring stats I guess.

he is tiny, I don't see that he can't forcheck, but not physical for sure

but to say he won't be able to forcheck is like saying Quinn Hughes will never be able to defend

but those are all factors that go into the comparison

Alflives · July 7, 2021

50 minutes ago, lmm said:

he is tiny, I don't see that he can't forcheck, but not physical for sure

but to say he won't be able to forcheck is like saying Quinn Hughes will never be able to defend

but those are all factors that go into the comparison

Caufield

Quinn

Quinn is Mighty Mouse!

Edited July 7, 2021 by Alflives

JM_ · July 7, 2021

1 hour ago, lmm said:

he is tiny, I don't see that he can't forcheck, but not physical for sure

but to say he won't be able to forcheck is like saying Quinn Hughes will never be able to defend

but those are all factors that go into the comparison

I suppose he could forecheck, but it will be like a ping pong ball bouncing off concrete. Or a hip check to the face.

DSVII · July 8, 2021

The lesson I'll take is something we've repeated in a lot of other threads.

Don't mistake this year as a model for future ones.

This is an abberation of a season with a divisional format that will never exist again with one of the teams exploiting a LTIR loophole to an extent that hasn't been seen before in the NHL due to another crazy set of circumstances that happened with the timing of the covid bubble.

Stick to your guns and your philosophy on what you think you need to succeed, and don't base your strategy and identity based on the results of a season with conditions that will likely never repeat ever again.

Forsy · July 9, 2021

On 7/7/2021 at 10:23 AM, Alflives said:

We don’t know Benning’s tiering Of BPA though. What the Habs have taught us, or reinforced, is nant win the ?Cup paying any player 10 million. Leafs have three!

10.5M/81.5M = 12.9%
10M/81.5M = 12.3%
9.5M/81.5M = 11.7%

Not much difference there for 1 player making too much, but you're right in that too many core players being paid high is detrimental.

Take this rule of thumb:
First 50% of Cap for 5 Top Players (i.e. the salary of each person in the core group of players should average 10% or less of the cap).
Next 30% of Cap for 5+ Good Players (i.e. the salary of each person in the supporting player group should average 5% or less of the cap).
Remaining 20% of Cap for 10+ Role Players (i.e. the salary of each person in the role player group should average 2.5% or less of the cap).

TML was at 57% of cap for the most expensive 5 players, 26% of the next 5 players.
TBL was at 52% of cap for the most expensive 5 players, 33% of the next 5 players.
MC was at 43% of cap for the most expensive 5 players, 25% of the next 5 players.
NYI was at 39% of cap for the most expensive 5 players, 31% of the next 5 players.
VC was at 37% of cap for the most expensive 5 players, 28% of the next 5 players (which includes Loui Eriksson in the most expensive 5).

Seems like most teams are around 40-50% of the cap for the top 5, 25-30% of the cap for the next 5.
What screws up team cap space the most are dead weight/bought out cap players, and of course, massively overpaid players who don't play according to their value.

Toronto is specifically way above (7% above) the 40-50% of their cap range being allocated to their top 5, whereas even tampa bay is only 2-3% above in both the top 5 and next 5 categories.

CONCLUSION:
Assuming you need 4 good/top defensemen, 1 good/top goalie, 9 good/top forwards, that's at least 14 players that need to be retained, and teams are seemingly using up 65-80% of their salary cap to pay 10 players.
1. So basically, you need 4+ extremely good value contracts in a team every year if you want to be really competitive/make a run in the playoffs. These good value contracts would be either i) having elite players playing on entry level contracts (like Pettersson/Suzuki/Caufield) , or ii) having good players playing on cheap contracts (like Blake Coleman).
2. 10 highest paid players need to play close to their salary cap hit (or better).

Edited July 9, 2021 by Forsy

PistolPete13 · July 9, 2021

Fame is fleeting. Enjoy it while you can. It’s going to very difficult for the Habs to make the playoffs next year.

Edited July 9, 2021 by PistolPete13

TheNewGM · July 10, 2021

Answer.

1) you need a stud Dman. someone who is a norris caliber player or just under

and good everything obviously.

what the canucks are missing now is a solid #1 Dman. Quinn hughes is not him.

imagine hedmann, webber, peiterangelo on the canucks ?? ..

canucks are actually looking good right now if benning can clean up the contracts and build around who we have now. Or pull a huge trade

( who we have now) obv being our young core.. need to get rid of all the vets. ALL of them..save edler maybe

Edited July 10, 2021 by TheNewGM