Jim Benning to speak to the media Thursday prior to draft

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, JC2 said:

I would prefer Benning keep the assets and wait till next off season. Why squander what few chips we have to get temporary relief when whatever moves he would make won't make much of a difference this season anyway. It's not like we are two players away from being a contender. The only moves I want to see are for players who fit the age group going forward and who are affordable. Hopefully the team can at least be respectful this year.

Voice of reason.

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is a really odd take to the actual post which had nothing to do with whether the signing turned out to be right or wrong in the end… it was simply a statement of historical objective fact.

 

Heffy said that last season Benning sucessfully gambled on Demko being a full-time starter this past season and turned out to be right.

 

The response was that he didn’t actually make that gamble that was claimed and instead signed an expensive veteran 1B to pair with Demko literally because he didn’t want to gamble on Demko being ready to be the full-time starter.

 

That doesn’t have anything to do with whether it was the right decision at the time or turned out to be the wrong decision in the end… it was that the post was blatantly inaccurate.

 

The hindsight part was that Benning turned out to be wrong and Demko didn’t actually need another expensive starter to insulate him for a couple years before being ready to rake over.  The other hindsight was that Holtby’s bad years before signing with us turned out to not be a fluke and he performed badly here too, so

Benning and/or his staff were wrong on his pro scouting assessment.

 

 

Of course he gambled on Demko.  He had a bird in hand already in Markstrom after a Vezina worthy season, could have easily signed him and traded Demko.        

[DownUndaCanuck]

Don't see the point of making cap space, JB just has to get us some depth because we're one of the thinnest teams out there. We just got some defensive center depth - something we desperately needed, let's go fill the rest of our needs. A lot of them come internally.

 

A lot of people are worrying about our top-9 forwards but this isn't a priority. We'll have our top line cemented, a year older and better Hoglander and Dickinson and possibly add Podkolzin to that group too. Sure, adding someone like Hyman or Schwartz would be good fun but not at the stupid 6Mx8yr nonesense Edmonton is spouting.

 

On defence, yes we have Rathbone and Juolevi who will easily fill one top-4 spot and one bottom pairing spot, but we really lack a defensive defenceman or any toughness whatsoever on our defence. Edler and Tanev brought all of that and we've lost them in 2 years. Myers and Schmidt are relatively big and tough but are far from defensive specialists, they're very decent top-4 all-around defencemen. Hamonic did a brilliant job last year playing with Hughes so it's pretty important we bring him back.

 

We may well see JB do nothing else all off-season and rely on internal growth but I do hope we get another top-4 defenceman to replace Edler, especially on the PK, or we'll be hanging Demko out to dry. Anything extra is a bonus but that's our minimum requirement right now.

 

We could go the easy route and grab someone like Savard/Reilly/whichever other cheap-ish UFA we can find. Or JB can try his luck at moving cap to go for big boy Dougie but this rarely happens or works out.

[IBatch]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:47 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

"we like 9 guys, so we'll take our guy at 9"

 

"we like 9 guys, unfortunately we aren't sure our guy will be their at 9 so might trade down". 

[IBatch]

51 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Don't see the point of making cap space, JB just has to get us some depth because we're one of the thinnest teams out there. We just got some defensive center depth - something we desperately needed, let's go fill the rest of our needs. A lot of them come internally.

 

A lot of people are worrying about our top-9 forwards but this isn't a priority. We'll have our top line cemented, a year older and better Hoglander and Dickinson and possibly add Podkolzin to that group too. Sure, adding someone like Hyman or Schwartz would be good fun but not at the stupid 6Mx8yr nonesense Edmonton is spouting.

 

On defence, yes we have Rathbone and Juolevi who will easily fill one top-4 spot and one bottom pairing spot, but we really lack a defensive defenceman or any toughness whatsoever on our defence. Edler and Tanev brought all of that and we've lost them in 2 years. Myers and Schmidt are relatively big and tough but are far from defensive specialists, they're very decent top-4 all-around defencemen. Hamonic did a brilliant job last year playing with Hughes so it's pretty important we bring him back.

 

We may well see JB do nothing else all off-season and rely on internal growth but I do hope we get another top-4 defenceman to replace Edler, especially on the PK, or we'll be hanging Demko out to dry. Anything extra is a bonus but that's our minimum requirement right now.

 

We could go the easy route and grab someone like Savard/Reilly/whichever other cheap-ish UFA we can find. Or JB can try his luck at moving cap to go for big boy Dougie but this rarely happens or works out.

Pretty much how i feel although i don't think OJ or Rathbone are slam dunks even as a bottom pairing guys...we have to re-sign Hamonic and looks like that deal will happen.    Think we should try and sign one more third/middle pairing RHD, so Schmidt can replace Edler and let OJ /Rathbone compete for the third pairing spot.     And that's it.    JVs money will be needed for Hamonic most likely.    And go with that lineup.   Almost clawed our way back before covid without EP so adding Podz minus Edler might not be that bad really.   Team knows the reserves are coming the following season Beagle, AR, LE and Luongo are all off the books.   That's a ton of money in what will still be a pressure cooker under the flat cap, especially if teams keep making bad deals. 

 

Edit:  Cheap RHD could be Ceci, Chara, Vantanen (no thx too small with Rathbone and QHs already in the mix), Schenn (was fine the first time as a depth guy anyways), Bogosian.   Also curious to what Suter will get.     Probably more then we can pay otherwise he'd just go to TB for a ring.  

Edited July 23, 2021 by IBatch

[Provost]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Of course he gambled on Demko.  He had a bird in hand already in Markstrom after a Vezina worthy season, could have easily signed him and traded Demko.        

You are entirely reframing the entire claim to make an unrelated false argument.

 

That is like me saying “the sky is blue today” and you responding, “No, you are wrong… some days the sky is cloudy!”  It literally has nothing to do with what I said.

 

He did not gamble on Demko being able to take the load as the starter last season. Period.  It simply isn’t true.

 

If he did, he wouldn’t have signed another starter in Holtby.  If he was gambling on Demko LAST SEASON as claimed, he would have signed a $1-2 million dollar back up goalie.  He overtly chose not to make that gamble.

 

Choosing the long term potential and price of Demko over the cost and term of Markstrom is an entirely different unrelated issue.

 

[IBatch]

49 minutes ago, Provost said:

You are entirely reframing the entire claim to make an unrelated false argument.

 

That is like me saying “the sky is blue today” and you responding, “No, you are wrong… some days the sky is cloudy!”  It literally has nothing to do with what I said.

 

He did not gamble on Demko being able to take the load as the starter last season. Period.  It simply isn’t true.

 

If he did, he wouldn’t have signed another starter in Holtby.  If he was gambling on Demko LAST SEASON as claimed, he would have signed a $1-2 million dollar back up goalie.  He overtly chose not to make that gamble.

 

Choosing the long term potential and price of Demko over the cost and term of Markstrom is an entirely different unrelated issue.

 

Semantics.   I'm not going to engage again, but you made a statement that others didn't agree with, and then made a series of posts trying to move goal posts... you said that he didn't gamble on Demko.  Which is simply not true, because he didn't sign Markstrom and trade Demko who for sure would get picked up in the ED.   Holtby was just for insurance, and wanted all to know what a mistake that was because your anti-benning.   Be honest. 

 

Edit:  The intent was pretty clear, Holtby was a bad signing and should have got a cheaper back-up .... but JB doesn't get any credit for  backing the right horse, only angst for overpaying his insurance policy...It appears the offer was similar to Holbty's, shorter term and less money...too bad that would have been an incredible tandem.   Stupid cap ... flat cap etc.  

Edited July 23, 2021 by IBatch

[spook007]

7 hours ago, Provost said:

Exactly… and hindsight is easy, but folks are welcome to go back and look at my posts and the time and I said those exact points.  A GM should be able to beat some dummy like me in decision making.

 

If Markstrom and Tanev price themselves out of our reach it would be sad but understandable to let them go.  Focus of Toffoli and Stecher who would be efficient signings.

 

Markstrom definitely priced himself out of our market.   No idea what Tanev would have cost to stay, maybe same deal but with one less year of term… maybe worth it, maybe not.  
 

Toffoli and Stecher instead of Virtanen and a cheap backup would have been night and day difference.  Instead we are looking at a big hit to future assets to find another top six forward.

And if Demko hadn't been up to the task, but needed more time to be a starter, you'd been the first to say Benning should never had left Demko hang out to dry. 
These things can always be twisted to support any narrative... Benning signed a Cup winning back up for 2 years only... 

 

Of all the thing Benning seemingly have done wrong, this is not one of them. 

Someone said 20/20 earlier.

 

This looks more like a witch hunt...

 

EDIT.  After reading a few more posts can see this is not your point... You agree Benning was insulating Demko incase he wasn't ready. Just don't understand your unhappiness about Holtby then. Its only for another year?

Edited July 23, 2021 by spook007

[spook007]

7 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

I can understand why Canucks let Markstrom walk but I can't understand why they didn't extend Tanev. Tanev gets 4.5 M in Calgary. Instead of keeping Tanev let's say at 4.5 M and having the perfect partner for Hughes Canucks signed a LHD in Schmidt getting 6.0 M.

Schmidt - as we all know - struggeld at the right side in a shutdown role. Tanev would have been not only way cheaper but also way better than Schmidt. This take has NOTHING to do with hindsight.

Durability....

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Durability....

Yes and for sure Schmidt looked like a great add on paper.   He did settle down after the first 15 games or so.   Feel he's got lot to offer still and it's nice to have a guy who can switch sides.   Schmidt is used to playing against the best in the world ... Tanev is a warrior, and miss him he'd be great as our third paring guy or defensive specialist.    History does show that 72 games is his high water mark, almost always goes down at some point - and when you need him the most will he be ready or will his body take the post season?   Wasn't he down at the end of our bubble season, and with covid was able to recover?   Pretty sure. Good for 60 games...more then that is a bonus. 

[Provost]

46 minutes ago, spook007 said:

And if Demko hadn't been up to the task, but needed more time to be a starter, you'd been the first to say Benning should never had left Demko hang out to dry. 
These things can always be twisted to support any narrative... Benning signed a Cup winning back up for 2 years only... 

 

Of all the thing Benning seemingly have done wrong, this is not one of them. 

Someone said 20/20 earlier.

 

This looks more like a witch hunt...

 

EDIT.  After reading a few more posts can see this is not your point... You agree Benning was insulating Demko incase he wasn't ready. Just don't understand your unhappiness about Holtby then. Its only for another year?

It literally had nothing to do with my happiness or unhappiness about Holtby or 20/20 hindsight.

 

There are a few posters that will respond to any of my posts with disingenuous arguments and outright fabrications… if I posted that the ice was cold they would be up on their soap boxes shouting to the heavens that it wasn’t.

 

I was fine with the Holtby signing.  We needed some sort of veteran presence.

 

Someone made a false statement and I just pointed out that it was false.  Virtually everyone understood and agreed except for the small peanut gallery.

 

Holtby was signed to (I think) the 3rd biggest cap hit of any goalie on the market last year after Markstrom And Lehner.  He was objectively brought in to insulate Demko so that they weren’t gambling on Demko being ready to carry the load as the starter.  

 

That is just what happened.  Ice is cold, water is wet.

[Provost]

14 hours ago, King Heffy said:

He also gambled that Demko was ready to handle the load as a starter.  Seems like a good bet.

 

12 hours ago, Provost said:

Actually that is absolutely not true.  He gambled that Demko wasn’t ready so signed the most expensive back up possible to insulate him for a couple of years until he was ready.

 

We could have signed a $1-2 million back up and saved millions in cap space.

 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Yes and for sure Schmidt looked like a great add on paper.   He did settle down after the first 15 games or so.   Feel he's got lot to offer still and it's nice to have a guy who can switch sides.   Schmidt is used to playing against the best in the world ... Tanev is a warrior, and miss him he'd be great as our third paring guy or defensive specialist.    History does show that 72 games is his high water mark, almost always goes down at some point - and when you need him the most will he be ready or will his body take the post season?   Wasn't he down at the end of our bubble season, and with covid was able to recover?   Pretty sure. Good for 60 games...more then that is a bonus. 

Tanev has played two seasons in a row without missing one single game. 

During the same two seasons Schmidt have missed 14 games.

So wich player have been most durable the last two seasons? 

[Timråfan]

11 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

That's the opposite of gambling.  

After we signed Holtby, these were the goalies that signed 1-way contracts that off-season (that we could've picked from). 

 

Anton Forsberg 700,000 (coming off a season where he only managed 3 starts in the NHL) 

Corey Crawford 3.9 mil 

Thomas Greiss 3.6 mil 

Mike Smith 1.5 mil 

Aaron Dell 800,00 (he posted a GAA higher then 4.1 and only managed to get 7 starts) 

Jake Allen 2.9 mil 

Alex Georgiev 2.5 mil 

Linus Ullmark 2.6 mil 

 

 

Can't we pick goalies from KHL, SHL? 

Or trade for other in NHL and AHL?

[Hairy Kneel]

I think Holtby will be needed more in the full 82 game schedule more so than than in the previous 56 game schedule. 

He will have more opportunities to show his worth. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

It literally had nothing to do with my happiness or unhappiness about Holtby or 20/20 hindsight.

 

There are a few posters that will respond to any of my posts with disingenuous arguments and outright fabrications… if I posted that the ice was cold they would be up on their soap boxes shouting to the heavens that it wasn’t.

 

I was fine with the Holtby signing.  We needed some sort of veteran presence.

 

Someone made a false statement and I just pointed out that it was false.  Virtually everyone understood and agreed except for the small peanut gallery.

 

Holtby was signed to (I think) the 3rd biggest cap hit of any goalie on the market last year after Markstrom And Lehner.  He was objectively brought in to insulate Demko so that they weren’t gambling on Demko being ready to carry the load as the starter.  

 

That is just what happened.  Ice is cold, water is wet.

Virtually everyone?  How do you know that is there a poll out there (a joke lol)...Maybe make one like during the season where most of the CDC was debating during the season.   Part of the peanut gallery includes regular posters like Jimmy McGill who's takes are great and i highly respect, EP who makes this place more fun and adds good takes too.   I don't care that you don't like JB, you've made that abundantly clear in other posts/threads. Anyone who knows that might get their back up by critiquing the couple millions we could have saved, and that little credit is given where it's due or at least that's how i saw it.   We also saved 36-25 Markstrom vs Demko as well.   Demko and Holtby combined was around one year of Markstrom last season correct?     I know you hate being wrong and won't ever let things go or at least it appears that way.    The entire CDC was involved in the Captain Obvious thread, lucky for you we got covid.   Without EP we clawed our way back to odds similar to MTLs correct?   Anyways if i'm the peanut gallery i guess your the conductor and part of that too lol...I challenge a lot of things said on this site,  sometimes and only with two posters all year, the other we've more then made amends so hope the same with you it gets silly like this is.  We both said the same thing several times too BTW - and i saw several contradictions which snowballed this, even on this page i see two.   You were fine with the signing (Holtby) but don't like that we could have saved a couple million.   I'm with you on that one too.   Maybe it's dealt with today who knows.   Have a good day Provost and i mean it.  No hard feelings. 

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I think Holtby will be needed more in the full 82 game schedule more so than than in the previous 56 game schedule. 

He will have more opportunities to show his worth. 

He's not worth buying out.   Seattle took three goalies that teams need to replace and have the cap to steal Greuber Vezina finalist from COL.   Holbty will have a market.   But who do we get to replace him?   Smith is off the board.  Elliot would work i suppose.   Signing Demko was great but we aren't out of the woods yet goaltending wise.   We'd better hope MD is going to be ready soon and can be a NHL goalie, that would make things a lot simpler for us ... certainly won't be this year unless one gets injured.   JB will have to save 1.5-2.5 every year until someone emerges from our pool to challenge him.   Won't be surprised if he takes a goalie later today.   

 

So yes for sure Holbty has value.  He's also playing for his NHL career right now.... incentivized for sure.  I think it would take a small miracle to get a better backup and save a couple million but it is possible.   It's just as possible Holtby plays well. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by IBatch

[BarnBurner]

18 hours ago, appleboy said:

The cost of moving out salary is high. Why waist assets for one year.

Oh, I don't know. Why don't you ask some of the posters here who would gladly throw away the 9th OA to shed contracts and waste assets. Not very bright imo.

[appleboy]

29 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

Oh, I don't know. Why don't you ask some of the posters here who would gladly throw away the 9th OA to shed contracts and waste assets. Not very bright imo.

They shed a bunch of salary just to spend it on a couple defensive goons. Every GM is looking at the playoffs and seeing that a few teams had big defensemen. It is the new fad. Tampa had Schenn for god sakes.

 

We have enough mobility in our D to compensate for some plodders.   Go and sign Schenn and Guddy.

[JM_]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

"we like 9 guys, unfortunately we aren't sure our guy will be their at 9 so might trade down". 

actually I'd be fine with swapping picks with CHI and taking Svechkov today if It meant bringing in Zadorov and clearing some cap. I wonder if CHI would move up to 9 for Zadorov and taking Roussel?