Popular Post MikeyD Posted July 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2021 Haha sorry boys. &^@#in Dad brain. I read that line too. I need some sleep lolllll 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 20 hours ago, oldnews said: well I've wanted Scott Mayfield for a long time (actually about 6 years - identified as a very good uptick target in fantasy hockey long ago even if he's not necessarily 'fantasy' hockey material). His indicators were early and strong imo. He has one of, if not the best contract in the NHL imo. He's big, relatively mean, he can skate, he has solid defensive awareness - and he's been a relatively proven partner alongside a puck mover. I was hoping that the depth of the Islanders on the right side might make him a possible acquisition but he's simply upticked so much that he appears to have become a borderline untouchable, all things considered (particularly in terms of cap value). So that sailed before the opportunity was seized - and in fairness to our management group - the movement around the e.d. was considerably less than anticipated, and the 'frenzy' around spending has resumed more quickly than I anticipated. The market hasn't been particularly 'predictable' imo. Another guy I wanted in the past was Cernak (another guy I drafted in fantasy hockey) - needless to say, way too late. Cal Foote was a young two way defenseman I wanted - thought the expansion draft might provide an opportunity there as well - Tampa imo has schmeagled there way through a couple offseasons now, paying considerably less price in the process than anticipated (while another 'rich' GM, Sakic, on the other hand, hasn't exactly...) When Savard was a relatively unattractive contract in Columbus, he was another guy I wanted - but then they moved/dumped him for Lashoff / a 4th round pick...and he got SCChampionship exposure - went from stealth take to one of the primary targets in this free agency, hand-picking his dream Habs destination. Not that big a deal, because I didn't consider him the 'longer term' option that I think a few other guys could have been. I've also always like Connor Timmins hockey intelligence - not as heavy an option as the guys above, but what you give up in heaviness sometimes you can gain in mobility.... Really - my first option of all though - was to re-sign Tanev over and above any of the other expiring contracts at the time - because I did not think replacing what he brought for Hughes was going to be an easy task - and finding a two way replacement for Hughes in no way would have made what he brings 'redudant' - we still have other young LHD like Juolevi and Rathbone to find supporting partners for. In hindsight - I'd happily give him the extra year and 1.5 over what we've committed to Hamonic (but that's not simply hindsight - my position at the time was to prioritize Tanev over Markstrom, Toffoli - at a time when RHD futures was - and remains, a principal organizational need). There are of course some other options out there that could also work - but that market is not the easiest to accomplish things (it's like shopping for two-way centers - I may have had Couturier on my shopping list since the days I wanted to move on from Kesler, but making shopping lists is far easier than convincing GMs to part with assets that have uptick written all over them). One thing I do like about the Hamonic deal - it's still only placeholder length (even if a year longer than I like) - in the end, perhaps Woo becomes that guy - (or even Keeper, who knows). Unrealistically: Adam Fox, Pietrangelo, Hamilton, Ekblad. Realistically: Larsson, Savard, DeMelo, Tanev, Jensen Larsson actually would have been an incredible signing, even at 5 million he would have brought far better value than Hamonic and Poolman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 30 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said: Unrealistically: Adam Fox, Pietrangelo, Hamilton, Ekblad. Realistically: Larsson, Savard, DeMelo, Tanev, Jensen Larsson actually would have been an incredible signing, even at 5 million he would have brought far better value than Hamonic and Poolman That is definitely a valid concern. We need a guy who can play a complementary role on a top pairing with either Quinn to help defensively or OEL to create a Pk and hard minute duo. Would we have been better off with a higher end guy for that and then living with Schenn for the 3rd pairing? We have more depth but less higher end talent on D. I guess time will tell, but I am not sure we have a pairing that the coach can throw out there with confidence to shut down other teams or to steady things when they are going off the rails. I guess an OEL-Myers duo may be the best we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 32 minutes ago, Provost said: That is definitely a valid concern. We need a guy who can play a complementary role on a top pairing with either Quinn to help defensively or OEL to create a Pk and hard minute duo. Would we have been better off with a higher end guy for that and then living with Schenn for the 3rd pairing? We have more depth but less higher end talent on D. I guess time will tell, but I am not sure we have a pairing that the coach can throw out there with confidence to shut down other teams or to steady things when they are going off the rails. I guess an OEL-Myers duo may be the best we have. Brad Shaw will figure things out. What he's done in both Columbus and St. Louis is as impressive as any defensive coach in the league. If this defense isn't malleable enough for Shaw, something will have to change. I'm assuming that he would have had a hand in the signings this week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Provost said: That is definitely a valid concern. We need a guy who can play a complementary role on a top pairing with either Quinn to help defensively or OEL to create a Pk and hard minute duo. Would we have been better off with a higher end guy for that and then living with Schenn for the 3rd pairing? We have more depth but less higher end talent on D. I guess time will tell, but I am not sure we have a pairing that the coach can throw out there with confidence to shut down other teams or to steady things when they are going off the rails. I guess an OEL-Myers duo may be the best we have. I actually like the depth guys. Schenn, Hunt, Keeper, Burroughs. If it weren’t for the contract there is a good chance one of them could play Poolman out of a spot, especially Schenn and Hunt. We don’t really have anyone good defensively 5 on 5. Hamonic is a good penalty killer but otherwise better offensively 5 on 5. Myers and Hughes are pure offensive players, and OEL has struggled defensively. Poolman and Schenn are just depth guys - so we don’t have anyone who can step up and shut down. My guess to your point is OEL and Myers who will likely get eaten alive unfortunately 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, canucklehead44 said: I actually like the depth guys. Schenn, Hunt, Keeper, Burroughs. If it weren’t for the contract there is a good chance one of them could play Poolman out of a spot, especially Schenn and Hunt. We don’t really have anyone good defensively 5 on 5. Hamonic is a good penalty killer but otherwise better offensively 5 on 5. Myers and Hughes are pure offensive players, and OEL has struggled defensively. Poolman and Schenn are just depth guys - so we don’t have anyone who can step up and shut down. My guess to your point is OEL and Myers who will likely get eaten alive unfortunately That was my point actually. $4-5 million on a legit top 4 guy and then one of the depth guys could have been a better answer than two slightly higher end guys in Hamonic and Poolman for the same cap hit. I hope Hamonic and Poolman can cover the extra responsibility as a consistent hard minute top 4, but that is a serious question mark to me. That 3rd pair RD could be a sheltered spot for a cheaper depth guy if we had a better top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: from that article Schenn said Vancouver offered him a one-year deal to stay, but he couldn’t pass up the chance to go to Tampa Bay pretty easy choice - to go win a cup or placehold on a transitioning team. I'm glad he had such a good showing to end his season here - probably had an impact on his ability to go provide depth to a team like Tampa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PhillipBlunt Posted July 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, oldnews said: pretty easy choice - to go win a cup or placehold on a transitioning team. I'm glad he had such a good showing to end his season here - probably had an impact on his ability to go provide depth to a team like Tampa Listening to an interview with him on 650, I loved hearing that he chose to come back here not only because of the moves made by the team this summer, but because he knew that Vancouver taking a chance on him in his first time here had a snowball effect on him signing with Tampa, which gave him the two Cup rings he was looking for. Schenn is all class. 2 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Listening Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said: I actually like the depth guys. Schenn, Hunt, Keeper, Burroughs. If it weren’t for the contract there is a good chance one of them could play Poolman out of a spot, especially Schenn and Hunt. We don’t really have anyone good defensively 5 on 5. Hamonic is a good penalty killer but otherwise better offensively 5 on 5. Myers and Hughes are pure offensive players, and OEL has struggled defensively. Poolman and Schenn are just depth guys - so we don’t have anyone who can step up and shut down. My guess to your point is OEL and Myers who will likely get eaten alive unfortunately I'm just hoping our new defense coach is able to work out the kinks with these two. I feel they are both quality defenseman with some holes in their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, The Listening said: I'm just hoping our new defense coach is able to work out the kinks with these two. I feel they are both quality defenseman with some holes in their game. What he's done with St. Louis and Columbus should give him the tools to help with Vancouver's defense. Sure, there is no Pietrangelo, Parayko, Werenski on the Canucks roster, but there are quality defensemen (as you've already mentioned) that need a smarter, more flexible, and more punishing (to the opposition) set of systems in place to make the defense more cohesive and less porous. Edited July 30, 2021 by PhillipBlunt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 hours ago, canucklehead44 said: Unrealistically: Adam Fox, Pietrangelo, Hamilton, Ekblad. Realistically: Larsson, Savard, DeMelo, Tanev, Jensen Larsson actually would have been an incredible signing, even at 5 million he would have brought far better value than Hamonic and Poolman The unrealistic options are unrealistic imo for more reasons than simply 'acquirability'. Fox isn't realistic - he's a 22 yr old, 181lbs - good two way defenseman but undersized and plays with Ryan Lindgren - I don't see him as a partner for Hughes unless this team had a more veteran remainder of their blueline, with a different makeup as well. Hamilton - whether or not there'd be a willingness to give him the absurd contract he got - he's never been the 'foundation' partner on a pairing - always played with Norris quality partners - has improved a bit off the puck but nevertheless not a pairing I'd want to see. Yeah - AP and Ekblad - are unrealistic for sure - AP may have hit free agency, but it's rare that guys like those two are dealt or not re-signed... Larsson should go in the 'unrealistic' category because he was off the market before fa and never really available. Savard - already addressed him - I'm not concerned about missing out on him - it leaves this task open and ideally we find a longer term solution. DeMelo - good tweener imo, good skater, good puck mover, good penalty killer - nothing that stands out as a must have - but imo comparable to Poolman - a 3 million cap hit - and not sure I'd put him in a class with the rest of the guys on those wishlists. Tanev - enough said - I wanted to re-sign him and wouldn't have regretted - in hindsight - if we had (although if they then missed the opportunity to land one of the younger guys I named in my last post, I may have second-guessed re-signing him. Jensen - is a somewhat stealth option (that not a lot of people know) - perhaps comparable to what you'd get with DeMelo - good defensive and penalty killing D - and has 2 x 2.5 remaining on his contract (at 30 yrs / near 31). He'd be a placeholder essentially - that would cost assets - but what I'd like about Jensen is how great a skater he is - something I'd like to see with Hughes (would not only put a lot of pressure on opponents, but also give that recovery ability against transition - when Hughes takes the risks he does). If I could 'order' a prospect in an upcoming draft - a right handed Bret Hedican would be on my wishlist. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post oldnews Posted July 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: Brad Shaw will figure things out. What he's done in both Columbus and St. Louis is as impressive as any defensive coach in the league. If this defense isn't malleable enough for Shaw, something will have to change. I'm assuming that he would have had a hand in the signings this week. I keep hearing that Poolman can't defend and is a 'bottom pairing' D....but what do his numbers say (and his coaches' deployment?) 1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said: I actually like the depth guys. Schenn, Hunt, Keeper, Burroughs. If it weren’t for the contract there is a good chance one of them could play Poolman out of a spot, especially Schenn and Hunt. We don’t really have anyone good defensively 5 on 5. Hamonic is a good penalty killer but otherwise better offensively 5 on 5. Myers and Hughes are pure offensive players, and OEL has struggled defensively. Poolman and Schenn are just depth guys - so we don’t have anyone who can step up and shut down. My guess to your point is OEL and Myers who will likely get eaten alive unfortunately You make this claim - at the same time as suggesting the DeMelo would be one of your wishlist guys. I like the depth they signed as well - who knows - but I don't expect any of them to be leapfroggin Poolman (although I like Keeper as a stealth riser). Let's look at what the numbers from last season said about DeMelo and Poolman (a season where by most accounts, Poolman was held back by both IR and a couple weeks of covid (protocol) - and DeMelo missed the second round of the playoffs... https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/2879804/tucker-poolman But let's dig into their 5 on 5 defensive outcomes this season and see if they warrant the gap you seem to perceive between the two. Poolman 39 games 18:18 ice time/game 69 hits 49 blocks 47.6% ozone starts 47.0% corsi 8 takeaways, 34 giveaways .932 on ice sv% 1.9 on ice goals against per 60 5on5 1:19/game penalty killing (3.4 on ice goals against per 60) DeMelo 52 games 16:58 ice time/game 76 hits 58 blocks 49.8% ozone starts 48.8% corsi 9 takeaways, 48 giveaways .925 on ice sv% 2.0 on ice goals against per 60 5on5 2:35/game penalty killing (5.3 on ice goals against per 60) * I'd mitigate this goal metric by saying he was a top unit killer, so higher ga may not be 'meaningful'. Both of these defensemen played primarily with Morrissey and Stanley - with very similar 5on5 context and outcomes - so we actually have decent conditions for considering them 'comparables'. There is clearly very little that separates them above. Poolman played 16:54 / game 5on5 DeMelo played 14:20 / game 5on5. Poolman with slight edges where on ice goals against and sv% are concerned. DeMelo was relied upon more to kill penalties... If you want to dig into the (imo less relevent offensive production - but worth noting) - DeMelo with 9 and 10 pt seasons, Poolman with 1pt and 16 pt seasons.... DeMelo got a 4 yr deal worth $3 million per prior to last season - reupping in Winnipeg. Poolman just got 4 x $2.5 (obviously - so highly contested on these boards). Edited July 30, 2021 by oldnews 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Listening Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, oldnews said: The unrealistic options are unrealistic imo for more reasons than simply 'acquirability'. Fox isn't realistic - he's a 22 yr old, 181lbs - good two way defenseman but undersized and plays with Ryan Lindgren - I don't see him as a partner for Hughes unless this team had a more veteran remainder of their blueline, with a different makeup as well. Hamilton - whether or not there'd be a willingness to give him the absurd contract he got - he's never been the 'foundation' partner on a pairing - always played with Norris quality partners - has improved a bit off the puck but nevertheless not a pairing I'd want to see. Yeah - AP and Ekblad - are unrealistic for sure - AP may have hit free agency, but it's rare that guys like those two are dealt or not re-signed... Larsson should go in the 'unrealistic' category because he was off the market before fa and never really available. Savard - already addressed him - I'm not concerned about missing out on him - it leaves this task open and ideally we find a longer term solution. DeMelo - good tweener imo, good skater, good puck mover, good penalty killer - nothing that stands out as a must have - but imo comparable to Poolman - a 3 million cap hit - and not sure I'd put him in a class with the rest of the guys on those wishlists. Tanev - enough said - I wanted to re-sign him and wouldn't have regretted - in hindsight - if we had (although if they then missed the opportunity to land one of the younger guys I named in my last post, I may have second-guessed re-signing him. Jensen - is a somewhat stealth option (that not a lot of people know) - perhaps comparable to what you'd get with DeMelo - good defensive and penalty killing D - and has 2 x 2.5 remaining on his contract (at 30 yrs / near 31). He'd be a placeholder essentially - that would cost assets - but what I'd like about Jensen is how great a skater he is - something I'd like to see with Hughes (would not only put a lot of pressure on opponents, but also give that recovery ability against transition - when Hughes takes the risks he does). If I could 'order' a prospect in an upcoming draft - a right handed Bret Hedican would be on my wishlist. That's a lot of words for "we can't afford it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Listening said: That's a lot of words for "we can't afford it" we can/could have afforded anyone in the 'realistic' category imo (although some would cost assets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Provost said: That is definitely a valid concern. We need a guy who can play a complementary role on a top pairing with either Quinn to help defensively or OEL to create a Pk and hard minute duo. Would we have been better off with a higher end guy for that and then living with Schenn for the 3rd pairing? We have more depth but less higher end talent on D. I guess time will tell, but I am not sure we have a pairing that the coach can throw out there with confidence to shut down other teams or to steady things when they are going off the rails. I guess an OEL-Myers duo may be the best we have. If one of Poolman, Hamonic or Schenn can provide stability alongside of Hughes I think it would help a lot. In his first year, Hughes ability to retrieve and move the puck killed opposing teams attack… this last year we didn’t see that so much. Perhaps that’s a partner issue, perhaps that’s teams gunning for him a bit more… probably a bit of both. that being said… as it stands OEL and Meyers looks like the most probably option and that may not work out so well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 hours ago, canucklehead44 said: I actually like the depth guys. Schenn, Hunt, Keeper, Burroughs. If it weren’t for the contract there is a good chance one of them could play Poolman out of a spot, especially Schenn and Hunt. We don’t really have anyone good defensively 5 on 5. Hamonic is a good penalty killer but otherwise better offensively 5 on 5. Myers and Hughes are pure offensive players, and OEL has struggled defensively. Poolman and Schenn are just depth guys - so we don’t have anyone who can step up and shut down. My guess to your point is OEL and Myers who will likely get eaten alive unfortunately I don’t think it’s fair (or correct) to call Poolman a depth guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: I don’t think it’s fair (or correct) to call Poolman a depth guy. To some fans McDavid in Vancouver is a depth guy. For the sole purpose that Horvat and Pettersson were drafted by our team. Ok I exaggerate. McDavid should play LW to Pettersson is more like it. Edited July 30, 2021 by Me_ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 8 hours ago, canucklehead44 said: Unrealistically: Adam Fox, Pietrangelo, Hamilton, Ekblad. Realistically: Larsson, Savard, DeMelo, Tanev, Jensen Larsson actually would have been an incredible signing, even at 5 million he would have brought far better value than Hamonic and Poolman You're trading 'brand name' for depth. Realistically, all the Canucks needed were players who could tidy up the defensive zone. That's it. Hughes/OEL can do their own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 hours ago, J-Dizzle said: I don’t think it’s fair (or correct) to call Poolman a depth guy. Technically a poolman has to be a depth guy otherwise he won't be filling the pool correctly. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TNucks1 Posted July 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2021 9 hours ago, Provost said: My recollection is that we did and at the stage of his career and the chance to make similar money on a contending team he took that. No hard feelings though. yeah two cups doubt he regrets it 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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