[proposal] Pettersson/Hughes for Eichel/Dahlin “swing for the fences?”

[eeeeergh]

3 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I do think Eichel would thrive on a Canucks team playing in the same division as McDavid with something to prove

I prefer EP's personality and he is better suited as a team player

 

Both Dahlin and Hughes are young defencemen and the same age and neither received a Norris vote. I do think Dahlin would excel as a Canuck as well 

I think in the future Hughes would like to play with his brothers, While Dahlin I could see being a long time Canuck (if he was a Canuck)

 

Of the 4 players, I think both EP and Dahlin would stay the longest as Canucks

Yeah you hit the nail on the head - personality and EP being a team player. JE is immensely talented and can do it all himself, but EP's the kind of person you want to win for. The quietness, work ethic, humility - future captain material there. 

[Capt. Hap]

First principles: Hockey is a TEAM sport.  Petey has the skill, attitude and team spirit for us; Eichel will not bring as much overall.  Pass one that part of the trade.

Dahlin has more upside than Hughes but may need some reclamation after Buffalo but I would do a "one for" on that part of the trade.  Love those Swedes.

[bolt]

Rather do

 

To Vancouver: Dahlin

To Buffalo: Hischier, NJ 2nd round pick

To New Jersey: Hughes

Edited July 31, 2021 by bolt

[cripplereh]

Buffalo would ask for 3 to 4 1st's in this deal and we would never do that.

 

Plus we have players we like so why bother trading if we think ours are just as good if not better??

[Patel Bure]

4 hours ago, bolt said:

Rather do

 

To Vancouver: Dahlin

To Buffalo: Hischier, NJ 2nd round pick

To New Jersey: Hughes

Man, this really would be something.  I like this idea a lot.  Only thing I’d change in your proposal is Ty Smith + 1st

 

So,

 

Buffalo to Vancouver:  Dahlin

Vancouver to NJ:  Hughes

NJ to Buffalo:  Ty Smith + 1st

 

 

[kloubek]

21 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

No worries man.   I’d probably pass on it as well to be honest but I’m just looking for good arguments as to why people would pass on this.

Personally, any time there is likely to be major back surgery I get squeamish. Not sure what he's doing but I was hearing disc replacement?

 

And no, Dahlen hasn't been amazing but I agree with the Buffalo factor and the assessment on him defensively. Benning has built this team to have an offensive guy and a defensive guy on each pairing. If successful, I think it supports Huggy to be all he can be offensively, and hopefully his linemate can be the defensive presence. 

 

I also think there is something to be said about being drafted. This is the team that wanted you, and used their pick accordingly. I have no proof, but I'd imagine that means something to players no named Virtanen, and believe there might be a propensity for such players to give just a little more, or take just a little less. What's the extra draw for E and D? Just getting out of Buffalo, perhaps...

 

Finally, while I agree Eichel is better than Petey, he's older. I believe Petey will be a top 10 guy easily, perhaps top 5. Regardless, the margin will be less when all is said and done, and Petey has more years in him.

 

Anyway, fun to speculate.

[mrturkish]

On 7/30/2021 at 7:33 PM, Patel Bure said:

[proposal] Pettersson/Hughes for Eichel/Dahlin “swing for the fences?”

 

Before I begin this post, I want to reiterate that I do not think this will happen nor do I necessarily think that it should happen. Just trying to see things “from the other side.” What I will say however, is that both Eichel and Dahlin, at full health, and at full potential, absolutely blow away both Pettersson and Hughes at full peaked potential, and if the Canucks TRULY want to swing for the fences and ice the best possible future team, then having Eichel and Dahlin here instead of Petey and Hughes would likely be the solution.

 

Why?  Because.....

 

1) Eichel, at full health, and full potential, is a Top 5 center in this league.  Period.  There’s McDavid, Mackinnon, Matthews, and then a next tier of centers that include Eichel, Crosby (aging), Draisaitl, Barkov, and perhaps a few others that I’m forgetting.  Guys like Pettersson and Sebastian Aho would be somewhere in that 10-15 spot.  So - if the Canucks TRULY want a franchise center in the truest sense of the word, then Eichel would be that guy.

 

2) Dahlin, at full potential, is about 90% as good as Hughes/Makar offensively, but is MUCH MUCH MUCH better defensively.   Yes, Dahlin’s atrocious defensive numbers in Buffalo would suggest otherwise, but let’s not forget.....it’s freakin Buffalo.  Everyone has sucked in Buffalo for the better part of the last 15 years.  But seriously - there’s a reason why Dahlin was being considered to be a “generational” talent back in 2018.  The “Connor McDavid” of defensemen. The “Brian Leetch on steroids.”  Dahlin, at maxed potential, is a two way beast that can pretty much do everything.  In Chess, he’d be the Queen of the chess board.  An ugly Swedish 6’3 drag queen, but a queen nonetheless.  
 

So - the point I’m making is this:  If the Canucks truly want to go for the cup over these next few years, then having a true franchise center and a true two way all situations “generational talent” defenseman just might get them there.

 

Why Vancouver does this:

-see reasons above 

-short term cap relief.  Pettersson + Hughes, as of today, will likely cost more than both Eichel and Dahlin.

-swing for the fences

-IF everything worked out, the Canucks would basically have no weaknesses.  Their only real current weakness is that they might be lacking a true top pairing shut down guy......but IF Dahlin were to live up to that potential, that problem would be solved.  And who better for Dahlin to learn from than OEL and Brad Shaw?

 

Why Buffalo does this:

-Culture change.  Plain and simple.  Things have become so toxic in Buffalo that they need to completely revamp the team and culture.  Eichel already wants out of there and the Sabres have already started to ruin Dahlin’s development.   
-Buffalo can give Petey and Quinn their well deserved long term money right now if I understand correctly, which will allow poor JP Barry to finally feed his family.  
 

Miller-Eichel-Garland

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin
Motte-Sutter-Highmore

 

OEL-Hamonic
Dahlin-Myers
Rathbone-Poolman

 

Demko
Halak

No thanks hard pass. As for swinging for the fences you didn’t even hit an infield sac fly. Keep trying you’ll hit a good trade sooner or later. 

[Patel Bure]

50 minutes ago, mrturkish said:

No thanks hard pass. As for swinging for the fences you didn’t even hit an infield sac fly. Keep trying you’ll hit a good trade sooner or later. 

I don't think I'd trade for Eichel (we don't know how he'll perform after the surgery + doesn't really seem like a "team guy" as evidenced by his bickering with the Sabres + rumours of him and Ryan O'Reilly not really getting along due to both players wanting to be the 'alpha' of the team), but the Dahlin idea intrigues me a lot.

 

Vancouver gives New Jersey:  Hughes

New Jersey gives Buffalo:  Ty Smith + 1st

Buffalo gives Vancouver:   Dahlin

 

While Dahlin has struggled in Buffalo largely due to Krueger likely not being an NHL calibre coach, make no mistake about it:    

 

Dahlin, at full potential, absolutely blows Makar, Heiskanen, Quinn Hughes, and other young defensemen from this age category, out of the waters.  There's a reason why Dahlin was being touted as a generational defenseman and "the Connor McDavid of defenseman" back in 2018.  Unlike Hughes and Makar, Dahlin brings it at both ends of the rink *at full potential.*   I'd be willing to take a risk with Dahlin here in terms of buying (relatively) low.  With OEL and Brad Shaw here, Dahlin could quickly get up to speed and receive the necessary coaching and mentoring that has clearly been missing in Buffalo.

 

I don't know if I'd pull the trigger on this deal if it was offered (i.e. Will Dahlin be able to get up to speed quite quickly or will he struggle for quite some time due to the damage that was done in Buffalo), but the deal does intrigue me.  At some point, I also wonder if Hughes will want to eventually join his brothers in NJ.  Might only be a matter of time?

[Podz19]

OP seems to want to trade our best players all the time?

 

We have 2 young men who are as talented or better and more importantly have shown character beyond their years.

 

Eichel has quit on his team, seems to be a bit of a prima donna and yet you want to trade him for Petey, who’s actually put up similar numbers, is younger and clearly is a leader. 

 

QH has a 0.75 ppg average 

Dhalin has a 0.53 ppg average 

 

I am not sure how you say Dhalin blows Makar, Hughes, etc out of the water. 

 

I feel like OP makes up trade ideas based on what draft pick a player was vs their performance. As he says here “generational” for Dhalin, but he has not looked as such, nor has Eichel, and in fact our guys have outperformed them. 

 

How about we keep our best players who are young and win a cup rather than making trades for the sake of it 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Podz19

[Patel Bure]

5 hours ago, Podz19 said:

OP seems to want to trade our best players all the time?

 

We have 2 young men who are as talented or better and more importantly have shown character beyond their years.

 

Eichel has quit on his team, seems to be a bit of a prima donna and yet you want to trade him for Petey, who’s actually put up similar numbers, is younger and clearly is a leader. 

 

QH has a 0.75 ppg average 

Dhalin has a 0.53 ppg average 

 

I am not sure how you say Dhalin blows Makar, Hughes, etc out of the water. 

 

I feel like OP makes up trade ideas based on what draft pick a player was vs their performance. As he says here “generational” for Dhalin, but he has not looked as such, nor has Eichel, and in fact our guys have outperformed them. 

 

How about we keep our best players who are young and win a cup rather than making trades for the sake of it 

I don’t always want to trade our best players.  Just like to verbalize outloud a lot of times (much to the chagrin of many) and ponders Devils advocate positions.

 

As far as Dahlin goes, I stand by my comments.  “The Buffalo factor”, in terms of ruining developments of players, is a real thing, just as it was a real thing in Edmonton from 2006-2015.  #LosingCulture.   Getting back to Dahlin, there’s a reason why people were calling him “The Connor McDavid of defensemen” or “Brian Leetch on steroids” during his draft year......or why he was being called a ‘generational talent.’  Dahlin is supposed to be as good in his own end as he is on the offensive side of things.  Whether he can still be that guy is a different issue entirely (ie has Buffalo ruined him beyond repair?), but you can’t deny the guy’s talent.

 

You seemed to have missed the part of my post where I said that I probably wouldn’t make this deal (a few posts up), but perhaps you only read the first post and not the thread.

[IBatch]

On 7/30/2021 at 10:43 PM, Patel Bure said:

Pure Devil’s advocate position.

 

While Eichel has health issues, and Dahlin has struggled, there’s absolutely no denying their potential and peak.  At their peaks, as much as I might not want to admit it, they collectively blow Petey and Hughes out of the water.  Eichel is a top 5 center while Dahlin’s potential is that of a two way generational talent.  Buffalo is in dire need of a culture change, while Vancouver might be in need of a top pairing shut down guy in the future.  If the Canucks are looking to “swing for the fences” and “go big or go home,” then this is the deal that could set them apart. The risk however, is that Eichel doesn’t end up being the same player psotnnefk surgery while Dahlin may have already been ruined beyond repair.

Sorry i'm not going near Quasi Motto, Goonies love child Eichel with a one hundred foot pole, even at 7.5.    He's no Gary Roberts, won't fix his own neck via hard work, and doubt he will ever approach his numbers either.   Dahlin.   Said at the time - he's NOT the next Lidstrom.   The threads on this site were hilarious.   Trade Horvat and BB and give them five firsts.   That's SLIGHT hyperbole.   Saw it again for Jack freaking Hughes.   I'm happy with EP and QHs thanks. 

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Sorry i'm not going near Quasi Motto, Goonies love child Eichel with a one hundred foot pole, even at 7.5.    He's no Gary Roberts, won't fix his own neck via hard work, and doubt he will ever approach his numbers either.   Dahlin.   Said at the time - he's NOT the next Lidstrom.   The threads on this site were hilarious.   Trade Horvat and BB and give them five firsts.   That's SLIGHT hyperbole.   Saw it again for Jack freaking Hughes.   I'm happy with EP and QHs thanks. 

Fully agree with you on Eichel.  Dahlin seems like more of a Brian Leetch (on steroids) than a Nik Lidstrom to me.  Although I believe that Dahlin’s development has been hampered by a terrible Buffalo environment, I wouldn’t make this proposed trade either.  Eichel’s questionable long term health + Dahlin possibly not being able to maximize his potential = too risky of a trade to make on either front.  

[Cup2022]

On 7/30/2021 at 9:51 PM, Patel Bure said:

No worries man.   I’d probably pass on it as well to be honest but I’m just looking for good arguments as to why people would pass on this.   Eichel’s upcoming surgery is obviously is a major issue, while Dahlin hasn’t looked all that great in Buffalo.  I do get it.  I just can’t help but wonder as to how these two guys would look in our system with a clean Bill of health + maximized potential.

I wonder how Gretzky at 19 would look in a Canucks jersey

[Ferlands_Head]

On 7/31/2021 at 12:28 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Devil's advocate here but I'd do it. I think Hughes doesn't have a very high ceiling defensively, I'm worried he'll be a very good Brodie/Barrie at best but because of his size and defensive awareness (or lack thereof) I don't think he can ever be a true top defenceman in this league. All the star defencemen are big, strong, solid guys like Hedman who started off as good defensive defencemen and then their offence grew out of it, not the other way around. Hughes doesn't have the physicality either. Dahlin isn't quite Hedman-esque, but he is much safer in his own zone and I think the offence might come out of him as he develops.

 

As for Pettersson, I'm quite skeptical on whether he truly is a star center or not. Last year he wasn't close to a point per game before being injured. He's been good at times but then also very inconsistent and only really good on the PP. Again, does he have the physicality to survive in a long playoff run? He's a bit like the Sedins in that he's not massive or strong, pretty sound defensively and obviously very skilled offensively, but will that lack of physicality hurt us in the long run? Look at Eichel, the man is a machine when he's on his game, a bit like Landeskog/Nate in Colorado. He's pretty strong as well. Petey COULD turn into that sort of star center who carries a team to the Cup, but I think Eichel looks much more like that sort of center right now.

 

I don't think Buffalo does this swap straight up in a million years and that alone just tells you that Eichel + Dahlin > Pettersson + Hughes. That being said, the Buffalo guys are more experienced and older.

 

Realistically, this trade wouldn't happen because of the worries as well of Eichel being a bit of a diva and trading our two young starts would certainly cause an uproar in the locker room. Look at what has kicked off after we let Marky, Tanev and Toffoli leave - everyone's wanting out, including Edler.

IMO Hughes is WAY more dynamic offensively than a Brodie or Barrie they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentense. Brodie and Barrie  at the same age never even recorded their first NHL points yet. Hughes at this point already has 2 season in the 60pt range and is only getting better. Barrie only reached these heights last year playing with McJesus and Brodie hasn't even come close. 

 

HE may never be a Hedman type but he's at the very least Karlsson esque a guy who in his prime will put up close to ppg numbers. You're really underrating Hughes here IMO.

 

We tend for forget Petey and Hughes are still 2-3 years away from their prime. Petey is already a star centre in this league and like Hughes is still getting better. If you compare their seasons at the same age EP is already producing at the same rate as Eichel. Now Jack Eichel broke out the year after for 82pts in 77 games which is very do-able for Petey this season. In fact with the extra scoring support it's likely he even reaches greater heights but we'll see. 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

I would do it if they retained 3m of Eichel's salary and threw in a conditional pick 2022 based on number of games. Eichel plays next year alll the way to a 1st rounder if Eichel misses half the season etc

[Gurn]

I'd wouldn't trade more than a third round pick for Eichel.

Damaged

Damaged

Damaged

Until Eichel is proven healthy, and playing at his former level, no deal.

[Patel Bure]

For the record,

 

I am NOT an advocate of this idea.  

 

When I created this thread a few months back, it was purely to play Devil's Advocate and elicits responses to confirm my true feelings.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 9/19/2021 at 12:52 PM, Patel Bure said:

For the record,

 

I am NOT an advocate of this idea.  

 

When I created this thread a few months back, it was purely to play Devil's Advocate and elicits responses to confirm my true feelings.  

Yet as time ambles along, threads like this one might actually invite worthwhile analysis & discussion.

 

Van: Our 2 holdouts

 

Buff:Eichel(2 mill retained); as someone above^ said, a 2022 1st(no protection) if he didn't play a pre-agreed number of games.

& Dahlin

 

IF these negotiations include BS-games from players & Barry, becoming intolerable for the fanbase, this would be a pretty interesting option.

[Gator]

Everyone saying Dahlin > Hughes has me scratching my head. Only thing Dahlin has over Hughes at this point in their careers is the draft position. Hughes has been the better NHL Dman thus far imho

[Gator]

On 9/18/2021 at 5:44 PM, gurn said:

I'd wouldn't trade more than a third round pick for Eichel