Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[FaninMex]

11 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

I get its frustrating but by all accounts they both want to be here long-term but as of now its really not an option for both. Plus both having the same agent makes it trickier because he has an obligation to get the best deals for both his clients and finally for all we know there are multiple deals that Quinn has agreed on but hinge on Petey who has to be announced before or at the same time to avoid a team from offer-sheeting him because they would know based on Quinns contract exactly how to structure it to make it a pain in the ass to match.

That being said its paramount that both are here for camp, in Peteys case he seemed to struggle without a real camp last year and Quinn needs to learn a new system and they need to see who out of OEL, Hamonic and Poolman is the best fit for him, they cannot have a rotating partner like last season.

 

You had suggested moving him to NJ, I think it would be a mistake to move him at all but if they did they make a terrible partner. No matter what the haters say his value is sky high and NJ has nobody that moves the needle, a D who has been a 55 point D who had a record setting bubble would get at worst a top prospect and a 1st.

From the Wings its Seider and a 1st. I know people love him but he's had zero NHL games and will be likely not get a ton of points but his defensive game should be elite. 

Hes worth more than any top D prospect, trading him would be a massive risk considering none will touch him offensively and if he can get back to 2019 as a baseline or even better and likely is he becomes a guy who isn't elite defensively but is 60+ points a year EK who will be in the running for the Norris potentially through his peak.

This is the big problem that we all foresee. Petty could not get it going and then got injured right when he was starting too.

QH was all over the place last year and our team D was terrible because of no training camp.

 

So, if they miss training camp, we can expect another terrible start that will bring down the team. 

[Alienhuggyflow]

27 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

9+ sounds right for Petey on a long term but how did you come to 5-6 on Hughes on a bridge deal?

That seems a little low and perhaps that's where the sticking point is. 

9.5 x 8 Petterson

6.5 x 3 Hughes

 

Doesnt that fit?

Why arent they signing lol

Just going by evolving hockey who use Charlie and a few others and the fact 2 years would be Quinn betting on himself that he takes a huge leap and at 23 and cashes in for a Zack or Nurse type deal opposed to a Chabot deal now. Only drawback for him is being a ufa at 31 instead of 29 but either way he likely gets to sign another big long contract.

[CanucksJay]

Interesting video.

Athletic has Hughes #1  and Dahlin at #3 in a redraft.

The youtuber makes some great points about their development paths, freedom to grow which resulted in different trajectories but he would still take Dahlin at #1

I have no idea who this dude is and he is not a qualified judge of talent but what he says pretty much echos my sentiments on why I value someone like Dahlin over Hughes.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by CanucksJay

[Alienhuggyflow]

Just now, FaninMex said:

This is the big problem that we all foresee. Petty could not get it going and then got injured right when he was starting too.

QH was all over the place last year and our team D was terrible because of no training camp.

 

So, if they miss training camp, we can expect another terrible start that will bring down the team. 

Yup that's why I'm not worried. Everyone is aware of how paramount it is that they sign in time for the ex games and I gotta believe that happens. Green has voiced every chance he gets that he wants them here and we know Benning does to. Kap signing should open the gates ad well.

[CanucksJay]

37 minutes ago, Xol said:

Sure, but he also refused to play while Burke looked for a fair trade. It worked out OK getting Jovo, but it wasn't what Bure was worth at the time

If I was the star of the team and they tried to make me the only guy paid in CDN instead of USD, I would ask for a trade immediately.

[4petesake]

22 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Anybody know what kind of money Dahlin is asking for? 

The talk on the Sabres boards is that he wants to be in the Heiskenen range. Sabres are thought to want a short term deal (Elliotte F thinks it will be a three year deal) and I suspect Dahlin doesn’t want to sign long term in Buffalo either unless Buffalo backs up the truck for him. This is all just speculation though.

[Rush17]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Interesting video.

Athletic has Hughes #1  and Dahlin at #3 in a redraft.

The youtuber makes some great points about their development paths, freedom to grow which resulted in different trajectories but he would still take Dahlin at #1

I have no idea who this dude is and he is not a qualified judge of talent but what he says pretty much echos my sentiments on why I value someone like Dahlin over Hughes.

 

 

The YouTuber is from Vancouver

[King Heffy]

33 minutes ago, mll said:

They have about 16.5M with a roster of 23 and full relief for Ferland.  They could even push to 18M if they drop the roster to 21.  That's without accounting for Motte who might be unavailable to start the season.

 

They won't be able to maximise their LTIR relief for Ferland if they aren't signed by the start of the season though.

 

They've kept so much cap space that there's no mathematical way for them to build a roster close enough to 81.5M and would be going into the season without any LTIR relief and Ferland on IR.  The over approach is not available in season so they would need to find a way to fit everyone under 81.5M including Ferland and only then apply LTIR. Might be challenging because of roster limits (min 20) and the waiver risk.  They could also do like Toronto during the Marner negotiations and trade for an LTIR contract to ear-mark the space kept.

 

Or they can just tell Pettersson and Hughes that the offer will be reduced by Ferland's salary between them if their agent doesn't stop being unreasonable and starts negotiating properly.

[Alienhuggyflow]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Interesting video.

Athletic has Hughes #1  and Dahlin at #3 in a redraft.

The youtuber makes some great points about their development paths, freedom to grow which resulted in different trajectories but he would still take Dahlin at #1

 

 

That article was really well done and that Lego kid is a clown. He sadly is the next Sekeres. 

The article did a great job explaining why Quinn is better now and since they are only 5 months apart he believes the fact RD needs to go up an entire tier just to catch up by then Quinn will most likely improved at a similar rate.

I've watched Ras a lot and he's got some glaring issues physically and mentally and the mental issue is always the hardest to correct. Quinn is so cerebral that he's gonna adapt and continue to learn the defensive side of the game and Shaw has a great track record.

[-DLC-]

Quote

In Vancouver, both team and Hughes/Pettersson have been grinding hard on almost a daily basis. Sounds like there’s a bit of a stalemate in both cases, and Pettersson joined his teammate in Michigan. It’s believed the Canucks are currently thinking short term in both cases, but Kaprizov’s deal makes me wonder if the true solution is Mikko Rantanen’s six-year, $9.25M contract that would buy the Canucks two years of free agency. (See above rule: sign cornerstones for as long as you can.) There’s been pushback to rumours the team might move a player to open room, especially since Tyler Motte is injured. I can understand why the Canucks wouldn’t be crazy about that right now.

 

Friedman's take

[CanucksJay]

4 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

That article was really well done and that Lego kid is a clown. He sadly is the next Sekeres. 

The article did a great job explaining why Quinn is better now and since they are only 5 months apart he believes the fact RD needs to go up an entire tier just to catch up by then Quinn will most likely improved at a similar rate.

I've watched Ras a lot and he's got some glaring issues physically and mentally and the mental issue is always the hardest to correct. Quinn is so cerebral that he's gonna adapt and continue to learn the defensive side of the game and Shaw has a great track record.

Thanks for this. So good to hear the other side of the argument. 

Is it true though that Buffalo tried to change his style of play? We can probably all agree that if Green stifled Hughes freedom, he might not be the same player he is currently

[Nuxfanabroad]

QUESTION: If we & the Desert Dogs met at the hoe-down..might we dance again?

 

Hughes for Chychrun(GREAT contract)..question is, how many of them crazy stash of 2022 2nd's, do the 'Yotes throw in?

[-Moose]

14 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Friedman's take

I for one have been calling for a Rantanen comparable, I think it works really well for Petey. Unfortunately, it doesn't leave much money for Hughes. If Motte goes onto LTIR, perhaps they can make it work. I think Hughes should come in around 7-8 million on a 6-8 year deal.

[FaninMex]

37 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

Yup that's why I'm not worried. Everyone is aware of how paramount it is that they sign in time for the ex games and I gotta believe that happens. Green has voiced every chance he gets that he wants them here and we know Benning does to. Kap signing should open the gates ad well.

Agreed. I am not worried either. I think most on the board are on the same page when I say it is important to get them signed but not at the cost of some absurd amount of money. I think with the fanbase turning on them it shows that we support Benning holding the line and watching them sit and miss the season. The ploy by the agent to force the GM to sign a big contract will not play here. If Benning gives them a huge ugly contract then I may join the fire Benning club. Sit them and make them watch or trade them. 

[King Heffy]

18 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

QUESTION: If we & the Desert Dogs met at the hoe-down..might we dance again?

 

Hughes for Chychrun(GREAT contract)..question is, how many of them crazy stash of 2022 2nd's, do the 'Yotes throw in?

I do that deal 1 for 1 in a heartbeat.  Chychrun has the chance to be a true #1.

[48MPHSlapShot]

34 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

QUESTION: If we & the Desert Dogs met at the hoe-down..might we dance again?

 

Hughes for Chychrun(GREAT contract)..question is, how many of them crazy stash of 2022 2nd's, do the 'Yotes throw in?

None. If we have the opportunity to move Hughes for Chychrun 1 for 1 we do it in a heartbeat.

 

On a somewhat different note, I think as time goes on we won't be seeing as many front loaded teams having success on the playoffs. In the flat cap era, with players and agents still demanding to be paid as though the cap is still going up a few million dollars every year, I think the truly successful teams going forward are going to be the teams that spread that money more evenly throughout their lineups. Instead of having two 9 or 10 million dollar players they have 3 6-7 million dollar players. I think that's going to be the way of things going forward as these players looking for double digit or close to double digit figures price themselves off of competative teams. 

[Strawbone]

If they both signed 3x8m contracts tomorrow, I would be surprised but happy! I want them on the team ASAP, and I honestly don't know which player will be more valuable to the Canucks if they both hit their full potential. And A LOT changes in 3 years. Get 'er done!

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

None. If we have the opportunity to move Hughes for Chychrun 1 for 1 we do it in a heartbeat.

 

On a somewhat different note, I think as time goes on we won't be seeing as many front loaded teams having success on the playoffs. In the flat cap era, with players and agents still demanding to be paid as though the cap is still going up a few million dollars every year, I think the truly successful teams going forward are going to be the teams that spread that money more evenly throughout their lineups. Instead of having two 9 or 10 million dollar players they have 3 6-7 million dollar players. I think that's going to be the way of things going forward as these players looking for double digit or close to double digit figures price themselves off of competative teams. 

Funny, but that sums up a predictive thread I'd made, around 18-24 mos(?) back.

 

Also feel it's wise to sink good money into a talented, sizeable, & durable top-4, as they can be on-ice perhaps 80-85% of a game's entirety. Especially the key moments, in the bigger tilts.

 

Just don't see young, slight, skill(sy) D-men giving enough bang-for-buck, if such a paradigm is pursued.

[48MPHSlapShot]

35 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Funny, but that sums up a predictive thread I'd made, around 18-24 mos(?) back.

 

Also feel it's wise to sink good money into a talented, sizeable, & durable top-4, as they can be on-ice perhaps 80-85% of a game's entirety. Especially the key moments, in the bigger tilts.

 

Just don't see young, slight, skill(sy) D-men giving enough bang-for-buck, if such a paradigm is pursued.

I think, even moreso than size (although that is a factor), having blueliners (and players in general) with multidimensional games is going to be key going forward. Like you alluded to, players that can be on the ice in any and all situations. You're not going to see too many one dimensional players on good teams any more, especially if those players are supposedly that team's "star" players.

 

Same goes for forwards. A player like Horvat is going to be absolutely invaluable going forward. Bottom line is teams are going to have to economize their lineups, and that includes having durable players that don't miss a lot of time, which is why comitting big bucks to a small Dman that can't play in his own end and a beanpole that can't stay healthy or play the PK is a mistake. 

 

LikenI said before, if agents and star players want to pretend that the flat cap era doesn't exist, they'll end up pricing themselves off of competitive teams until they're willing to take a bit less. 

[Timråfan]

7 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

What an absolutely stupid question. This is a fan forum not a slimy agents forum.

I guess you don’t know why there are agents at all.

Maybe because of slimy companies, owners, GMs… Where are people objectivity?