[Trade] Canucks trade Olli Juolevi to Panthers for Juho Lammikko, Noah Juulsen

[Gnarcore]

25 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

They said he was healthy last season when he finally came back. But then Montreal lost him to Florida on waivers.  And he just sat on the taxi squad in Florida last season. The kid needs to play some actual NHL minutes. Not sure if he’s had any lingering issues but the fact that Florida put him an waivers last week and he cleared makes me wonder if he’s still an NHL player 

Or you know...Florida is a good and a deep team. 

[shiznak]

20 hours ago, gurn said:

Yes, everyone knows all injuries are exactly the same, to the exact same body parts, causing players to miss the exact same amount of games.

So simple..................really.

Well, I mean Chychrun already has had two major surgeries. One on his shoulder, and the other on his knee. He also missed a ton a games throughout his NHL career, with back tightness. Last year, was his only “full” year in the league. So, it isn’t like he’s been lucky with his injuries. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by shiznak

[Pure961089]

10 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

That’s exactly what I think. With the lack of PK forward options right now, it’s time for Green to admit Pearson is too streaky offensively, doesn’t provide anywhere near the offensive line driving play as Hoglander, and frankly is too slow for a Horvat-Garland line. 
 

Pearson is a below average second line and pp guy and an above average to good 3rd line and pk option. Time to use players where they actually fit not where you wish they would fit.
 

 

I thought when we got Garland, Pearson dropped to the 3rd line automaticity.  

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

I thought when we got Garland, Pearson dropped to the 3rd line automaticity.  

Pearson will never be away from Horvat, the top 6, and the PP until Benning and Greennare gone and assuming we hire a coach who can properly evaluate players.

[mll]

8 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Pearson will never be away from Horvat, the top 6, and the PP until Benning and Greennare gone and assuming we hire a coach who can properly evaluate players.

Pearson has probably been tied to Horvat because Green has been using them as his primary matchup line.  Suffice to look at the minutes against the top players in the division to see how little he trusted the bottom-6 last season against scoring lines. 

 

With Sutter, Motte absent and some less experienced players in the bottom-6 it might be a repeat this season - at least to start.  Only Dickinson is a proven defensive player.  

[wallstreetamigo]

21 minutes ago, mll said:

Pearson has probably been tied to Horvat because Green has been using them as his primary matchup line.  Suffice to look at the minutes against the top players in the division to see how little he trusted the bottom-6 last season against scoring lines. 

 

With Sutter, Motte absent and some less experienced players in the bottom-6 it might be a repeat this season - at least to start.  Only Dickinson is a proven defensive player.  

Maybe Green needs to figure out a better defensive system so he doesn’t have to only rely on 1 line to shut anyone down.

 

He seems to love Highmore (god knows why but he does) so put Pearson and Highmore with Dickinson and let them shut players down while letting Bo center an offensive line to force other teams to have to choose which of the top 2 lines to contain.

 

Forcing the other team to do so gives us a way better chance of winning rather than trying to play into their matchup game all the time.

[JM_]

11 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

They have about 4 career points between them in about a hundred combined games, you can compare that.

doesn't tell us much. Its like comparing two cars by saying they can both go 100 km/hr.

[Gollumpus]

11 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

You can Google their careers, I don’t know what else you need here, they do not appear to resemble NHL players in any category.

Or, I could just choose to ignore your statements because you are not bothering to provide even a reference point to the material which you were looking at which shaped your POV. Nothing to see here, I guess.

 

                                                       regards,  G.

[Gollumpus]

10 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Benning referred to him as a center. I imagine he can play there.

 

Anybody watch this guy play in the world championships a couple years ago? Looks like he played every game en route to a gold medal. Didn’t put up any points so I’m gonna assume he was in a shutdown role.

Yeah, he seems to be all over the place. I've seen some sources which have him as a center (the Canucks' info for one), Wikipedia has him as a winger, and in other sources he's listed as being able to play any of the forward positions (https://www.capfriendly.com/players/juho-lammikko)

 

Maybe he should be Swiss,  due to the army knife approach he brings. I'm going to assume he's a LW until we are shown that he is actually s RD.

 

                                                             regards,  G.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

6 hours ago, mll said:

Pearson has probably been tied to Horvat because Green has been using them as his primary matchup line.  Suffice to look at the minutes against the top players in the division to see how little he trusted the bottom-6 last season against scoring lines. 

 

With Sutter, Motte absent and some less experienced players in the bottom-6 it might be a repeat this season - at least to start.  Only Dickinson is a proven defensive player.  

Yep agree 100%- sad because the healthy roster looked like Benning finally made the appropriate adjustments to the bottom-6 (and to give Bo some relief) but injuries have derailed that before the season even started. With Greener in the hot seat I can't imagine he deviates from this plan while Motte & Sutts are out.

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, mll said:

Pearson has probably been tied to Horvat because Green has been using them as his primary matchup line.  Suffice to look at the minutes against the top players in the division to see how little he trusted the bottom-6 last season against scoring lines. 

 

With Sutter, Motte absent and some less experienced players in the bottom-6 it might be a repeat this season - at least to start.  Only Dickinson is a proven defensive player.  

Pearson and Horvat also have solid chemistry.

 

And as loath as some might be too admit it, Pearson being a solid defensive presence likely also allows Horvat to worry a bit less about his own defensive coverage and create more offensively, as he knows he has reliable defensive coverage with Tanner.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a player with some 'little things' on Horvat's line, streaky offense or otherwise. Adding one of Hoglander or Garland there should only make them more potent of a match up/counter punch line.

[Gollumpus]

9 hours ago, ‹(•¿•)› said:

I mean, penalty killing 4th line center and right shot D were both positions of need, so adding to our depth there is hardly a negative. I don't think anyone suggested these are impact players.

True enough. 

 

They don't move the needle as far as cap space is concerned. The extra contract is a small pain, but one which may be fairly easily corrected. It has been pointed out by @N7Nucks that Juulsen has already cleared waivers, and he's the guy that the team is (probably) most interested in retaining. Lammikko could (likely?) be moved to the AHL if needed.

 

Lammikko gives me a bit of an Oreskovich vibe, but maybe he will prove to be useful. His faceoff numbers don't scream anything more than average. and his skating looks fairly good. He did have at least one moment in the spotlight as far as offense:

 

 

Maybe just play him against the Senators?

 

As you have suggested, the team could use additional options to fill the holes in the roster, so it doesn't hurt to bring in a couple of guys who may prove to be helpful, in return for a player who was very likely going to be lost by going through waivers. 

 

                                                                     regards,  G.

[wallstreetamigo]

12 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Pearson and Horvat also have solid chemistry.

 

And as loath as some might be too admit it, Pearson being a solid defensive presence likely also allows Horvat to worry a bit less about his own defensive coverage and create more offensively, as he knows he has reliable defensive coverage with Tanner.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a player with some 'little things' on Horvat's line, streaky offense or otherwise. Adding one of Hoglander or Garland there should only make them more potent of a match up/counter punch line.

But Hoglander and Garland are both pretty good defensively too and way more creative and aggressive offensively. 
 

So you are essentially saying that trying out Horvat without Pearson, even in the preseason, is not worth a look to see if someone else might actually be a better fit there? Or that Pearson might be more benefit stabilizing another line instead of (laughing at your notion of this) sheltering Bo?

 

Pearson is good defensively but let’s not pretend he is a Selke calibre winger. He blows coverage in the defensive zone as much or more than anyone else on this team.

Edited October 12, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[Gollumpus]

I figure the lines will be fairly fluid, and will change up as the situation requires. What is announced prior to game one will probably change some time during the first period. Hoglander and Pearson will play somewhere on the left wing, sometimes with Horvat, sometimes on the third line, or maybe even on the first line. And so on...

 

                                               regards,  G.

[Gollumpus]

@Top Sven Baercheese @qwijibo @wallstreetamigo 

 

Additional information, which wasn't really asked for, but what the heck, baseball doesn't start for a few more hours...

 

Did some looking back to 2018, the kid was playing around 15 - 20 minutes prior to getting hit by the puck, is listed as playing only 3(ish) minutes in the game vs Washington, and then didn't play for quite some time (I stopped looking after 4 games, which was to the end of November 2018). 

 

If the kid can return to form (even in part), then this could be a steal of a deal. 

 

                                                  regards,  G.

[wallstreetamigo]

5 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

@Top Sven Baercheese @qwijibo @wallstreetamigo 

 

Additional information, which wasn't really asked for, but what the heck, baseball doesn't start for a few more hours...

 

Did some looking back to 2018, the kid was playing around 15 - 20 minutes prior to getting hit by the puck, is listed as playing only 3(ish) minutes in the game vs Washington, and then didn't play for quite some time (I stopped looking after 4 games, which was to the end of November 2018). 

 

If the kid can return to form (even in part), then this could be a steal of a deal. 

 

                                                  regards,  G.

Sort of like if Juolevi can put it all together he might be a steal of a deal for Florida.

[qwijibo]

7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Sort of like if Juolevi can put it all together he might be a steal of a deal for Florida.

Yup. The upside for Vancouver is that Juulsen has already cleared waivers.  If Joulevi had been placed on waivers there’s a chance he would have been lost for nothing. 

[Gollumpus]

10 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Yup. The upside for Vancouver is that Juulsen has already cleared waivers.  If Joulevi had been placed on waivers there’s a chance he would have been lost for nothing. 

And Juulsen plays on the right side, plus he's a local kid which is nice.

 

                                     regards,  G.

[kloubek]

Don't believe this has been posted yet regarding the trade. Positive words from Canucksarmy - for what it's worth....

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2021/10/12/canucks-exactly-needed-return-olli-juolevi-especially-form-juho-lammikko/

 

 

Less than 48 hours after news of the latest Vancouver Canucks/Florida Panthers trade broke, we think that enough ink has already been spilled about the Olli Juolevi-for-Noah Juulsen swap at the center of it.

Both Juolevi and Juulsen are former highly-touted defenders picked in the first round of the NHL draft, and both have had their careers severely hampered by various injuries.
 

Perhaps most important of all, both were destined to start their 2021/22 seasons in the AHL.

Neither has much of a future ahead of them if they cannot get past their injury-related development issues, but of the two, Juulsen looks like the better fit for the Canucks. He’s a year older, has already cleared waivers, and plays the right side, where the team is incredibly thin. He plays a more physical game than Juolevi, and he’s from Abbotsford to boot.

So, on this exchange alone, Jim Benning and Co. would seem to have come out slightly ahead.

 

But it’s the additional acquisition of Juho Lammikko that really puts this trade over the top, and places it firmly within the win column.

Satiar Shah reported last week that the Canucks were looking to the waiver wire for depth at the center and RHD positions following the training camp absences of Brandon Sutter and Travis Hamonic.

Now, in one fell swoop, they’ve acquired one of each, and all it cost them was a player they were going to put on waivers anyway.

As we’ve already said, whether Juulsen ever gets his name up to NHL snuff is unclear, and counting on him to fill in for Hamonic is certainly a gamble.

But the 25-year-old Lammikko looks like a perfectly fine Sutter replacement for the time being, and may even prove to be the superior option in the 4C slot even after Sutter makes his return.

 

Consider that, while Sutter played bottom-six center and wing roles for the lowly Canucks in 2021, Lammikko was the dedicated 4C for the Florida Panthers — owners of the fourth-best record in the league — for most of the season.

The question, then, of whether or not Lammikko is a good enough 4C for a playoff team would seem to have already been answered: he is, he was, and he just might be again.

Some of the time, Lammikko platooned with fellow center Noel Acciari, sharing some of his pivot duties.

Most of the time, however, Lammikko was flanked by a series of wingers like Ryan Lomberg, Owen Tippett, Frank Vatrano, Brett Connolly, and Vinnie Hinostroza, and he handled sole possession of the center lanes quite well.

 

Lammikko was not placed into much of a shutdown role by the Panthers. He played primarily with and against fellow third- and fourth-liners, facing off with opposing first lines less frequently than even the average NHL forward.

But there’s a big, obvious reason for that, and his name is Aleksander Barkov.

Lammikko had the good fortune to play behind Barkov, 2021’s Selke Trophy winner, for the entire season. That meant Barkov gobbling up all the difficult minutes on a nightly basis and leaving the rest for centers further down the depth chart. It’s also important to note that Lammikko’s quality of teammates lagged even further behind than his quality of competition.

 

Which is not to say, however, that Lammikko received anything approaching sheltered minutes. He started just 32.5% of his shifts in the offensive zone, meaning Lammikko and his linemates were constantly thrown into their own end and expected to move the puck out and up the ice.

In that regard, he performed admirably, if not astonishingly. Lammikko’s near-even possession rates and other on-ice metrics will not dazzle, but they should at least lightly impress when understood within the context of his constant defensive zone starts.

 

If there’s one center-related area in which Lammikko currently struggles, it’s faceoffs. Lammikko won just 44.9% of his draws in 2021, which isn’t awful, but one hopes for better from someone who may be taking them in the d-zone with a game on the line.

 

Fortunately, players tend to improve their faceoff numbers when they come to Vancouver. And, if not, the Canucks will at least have other options available to take draws, as we’ll discuss more shortly.

Where Lammikko really stands out from the pre-establishing bottom-six pack in Vancouver is in his ability to play down the middle of the ice on the penalty kill. The PK was obviously a major priority for coach Travis Green and his staff during training camp, with preseason standouts Jonah Gadjovich and Phil Di Giuseppe jettisoned for their lack of shorthanded experience in favour of PKers like Justin Dowling and Matthew Highmore.

Lammikko spent much of the 2021 season in the top-four PK rotation for the Panthers alongside Barkov, Acciari, and Eetu Luostarinen, killing an average of about a minute per game. That makes him especially valuable to the Canucks as a lynchpin of their second unit, with Jason Dickinson centring the first, at least until Sutter returns.

Lammikko’s offence is certainly nothing to get excited about, but it’s not the worst the Canucks have ever seen at the bottom-end of their lineup, either. With 11 points through 84 career NHL games, Lammikko will never be a big scorer, but a couple of sojourns back to Europe have helped unearth at least a modicum of the offensive spark that once got him drafted at 65^th overall in 2014.

In 2019/20, Lammikko returned to the SM-liiga, where he notched 51 points in 57 games. The start of the 2021 season saw him playing for Magnitogorsk Metallurg of the KHL, where he managed six goals and eight points in 22 games.

 

There could be some untapped potential left in there, waiting to pop.

On top of all that, of course, come the intangibles.

All across various hockey message boards, Panther fans can be found lamenting the loss of Lammikko today. Although they understand the reality of roster space, most seem to wish they could have found a way to keep Lammikko, who plays “playoff hockey,” in the picture.

 

Thomas Drance, who previously worked for the Florida organization, called Lammikko “one of the best characters I’ve ever worked with.”

 

Lammikko is feisty, physical, and tenacious. If not an outright agitator, he’s widely recognized as a player who is annoying to play against.

 

He’s a relentless forechecker, which comes in particularly handy when it’s his job to lug the puck up the ice and keep it in the opposition’s end for as long as possible.

 

 

And it’s no mystery where he got all these high-character attributes from, either. Lammikko is a young Finn who has played his entire NHL career under the guidance of Barkov, perhaps the greatest on-ice leader in Finnish hockey history.

All of which combines to make Lammikko sound like a mighty fine temporary replacement for Sutter as he recovers from the lingering effects of COVID-19, and at least as good a fit to hold on to the 4C job even when Sutter comes back.

The neat part, of course, is that the Canucks don’t really have to choose. Both Lammikko and Sutter have proven themselves capable of playing on the right wing if need be.

Lammikko shoots left, and Sutter shoots right.

A fully healthy fourth line of Tyler Motte, Lammikko, and Sutter is a fourth line on which all three members can take draws, all three members can kill penalties, and in which all three members are eminently comfortable starting shifts in their own end.

Or, in other words, they’re exactly what the Canucks need out of a fourth line.

All this, and all it cost Benning and Co. was a slightly-used Olli Juolevi? And they get a ticket in the Noah Juulsen lottery on top of it?

That’s what we call making the best out of a bust situation.

[vancan2233]

45 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Don't believe this has been posted yet regarding the trade. Positive words from Canucksarmy - for what it's worth....

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2021/10/12/canucks-exactly-needed-return-olli-juolevi-especially-form-juho-lammikko/

 

 

Less than 48 hours after news of the latest Vancouver Canucks/Florida Panthers trade broke, we think that enough ink has already been spilled about the Olli Juolevi-for-Noah Juulsen swap at the center of it.

Both Juolevi and Juulsen are former highly-touted defenders picked in the first round of the NHL draft, and both have had their careers severely hampered by various injuries.
 

Perhaps most important of all, both were destined to start their 2021/22 seasons in the AHL.

Neither has much of a future ahead of them if they cannot get past their injury-related development issues, but of the two, Juulsen looks like the better fit for the Canucks. He’s a year older, has already cleared waivers, and plays the right side, where the team is incredibly thin. He plays a more physical game than Juolevi, and he’s from Abbotsford to boot.

So, on this exchange alone, Jim Benning and Co. would seem to have come out slightly ahead.

 

But it’s the additional acquisition of Juho Lammikko that really puts this trade over the top, and places it firmly within the win column.

Satiar Shah reported last week that the Canucks were looking to the waiver wire for depth at the center and RHD positions following the training camp absences of Brandon Sutter and Travis Hamonic.

Now, in one fell swoop, they’ve acquired one of each, and all it cost them was a player they were going to put on waivers anyway.

As we’ve already said, whether Juulsen ever gets his name up to NHL snuff is unclear, and counting on him to fill in for Hamonic is certainly a gamble.

But the 25-year-old Lammikko looks like a perfectly fine Sutter replacement for the time being, and may even prove to be the superior option in the 4C slot even after Sutter makes his return.

 

Consider that, while Sutter played bottom-six center and wing roles for the lowly Canucks in 2021, Lammikko was the dedicated 4C for the Florida Panthers — owners of the fourth-best record in the league — for most of the season.

The question, then, of whether or not Lammikko is a good enough 4C for a playoff team would seem to have already been answered: he is, he was, and he just might be again.

Some of the time, Lammikko platooned with fellow center Noel Acciari, sharing some of his pivot duties.

Most of the time, however, Lammikko was flanked by a series of wingers like Ryan Lomberg, Owen Tippett, Frank Vatrano, Brett Connolly, and Vinnie Hinostroza, and he handled sole possession of the center lanes quite well.

 

Lammikko was not placed into much of a shutdown role by the Panthers. He played primarily with and against fellow third- and fourth-liners, facing off with opposing first lines less frequently than even the average NHL forward.

But there’s a big, obvious reason for that, and his name is Aleksander Barkov.

Lammikko had the good fortune to play behind Barkov, 2021’s Selke Trophy winner, for the entire season. That meant Barkov gobbling up all the difficult minutes on a nightly basis and leaving the rest for centers further down the depth chart. It’s also important to note that Lammikko’s quality of teammates lagged even further behind than his quality of competition.

 

Which is not to say, however, that Lammikko received anything approaching sheltered minutes. He started just 32.5% of his shifts in the offensive zone, meaning Lammikko and his linemates were constantly thrown into their own end and expected to move the puck out and up the ice.

In that regard, he performed admirably, if not astonishingly. Lammikko’s near-even possession rates and other on-ice metrics will not dazzle, but they should at least lightly impress when understood within the context of his constant defensive zone starts.

 

If there’s one center-related area in which Lammikko currently struggles, it’s faceoffs. Lammikko won just 44.9% of his draws in 2021, which isn’t awful, but one hopes for better from someone who may be taking them in the d-zone with a game on the line.

 

Fortunately, players tend to improve their faceoff numbers when they come to Vancouver. And, if not, the Canucks will at least have other options available to take draws, as we’ll discuss more shortly.

Where Lammikko really stands out from the pre-establishing bottom-six pack in Vancouver is in his ability to play down the middle of the ice on the penalty kill. The PK was obviously a major priority for coach Travis Green and his staff during training camp, with preseason standouts Jonah Gadjovich and Phil Di Giuseppe jettisoned for their lack of shorthanded experience in favour of PKers like Justin Dowling and Matthew Highmore.

Lammikko spent much of the 2021 season in the top-four PK rotation for the Panthers alongside Barkov, Acciari, and Eetu Luostarinen, killing an average of about a minute per game. That makes him especially valuable to the Canucks as a lynchpin of their second unit, with Jason Dickinson centring the first, at least until Sutter returns.

Lammikko’s offence is certainly nothing to get excited about, but it’s not the worst the Canucks have ever seen at the bottom-end of their lineup, either. With 11 points through 84 career NHL games, Lammikko will never be a big scorer, but a couple of sojourns back to Europe have helped unearth at least a modicum of the offensive spark that once got him drafted at 65^th overall in 2014.

In 2019/20, Lammikko returned to the SM-liiga, where he notched 51 points in 57 games. The start of the 2021 season saw him playing for Magnitogorsk Metallurg of the KHL, where he managed six goals and eight points in 22 games.

 

There could be some untapped potential left in there, waiting to pop.

On top of all that, of course, come the intangibles.

All across various hockey message boards, Panther fans can be found lamenting the loss of Lammikko today. Although they understand the reality of roster space, most seem to wish they could have found a way to keep Lammikko, who plays “playoff hockey,” in the picture.

 

Thomas Drance, who previously worked for the Florida organization, called Lammikko “one of the best characters I’ve ever worked with.”

 

Lammikko is feisty, physical, and tenacious. If not an outright agitator, he’s widely recognized as a player who is annoying to play against.

 

He’s a relentless forechecker, which comes in particularly handy when it’s his job to lug the puck up the ice and keep it in the opposition’s end for as long as possible.

 

 

And it’s no mystery where he got all these high-character attributes from, either. Lammikko is a young Finn who has played his entire NHL career under the guidance of Barkov, perhaps the greatest on-ice leader in Finnish hockey history.

All of which combines to make Lammikko sound like a mighty fine temporary replacement for Sutter as he recovers from the lingering effects of COVID-19, and at least as good a fit to hold on to the 4C job even when Sutter comes back.

The neat part, of course, is that the Canucks don’t really have to choose. Both Lammikko and Sutter have proven themselves capable of playing on the right wing if need be.

Lammikko shoots left, and Sutter shoots right.

A fully healthy fourth line of Tyler Motte, Lammikko, and Sutter is a fourth line on which all three members can take draws, all three members can kill penalties, and in which all three members are eminently comfortable starting shifts in their own end.

Or, in other words, they’re exactly what the Canucks need out of a fourth line.

All this, and all it cost Benning and Co. was a slightly-used Olli Juolevi? And they get a ticket in the Noah Juulsen lottery on top of it?

That’s what we call making the best out of a bust situation.

But, I looked at his stats and know he is no good.