Juho Lammikko | #91 | RW/C

[-AJ-]

Received as part of the trade of Olli Juolevi.

 

[Alflives]

Seems like a heavy d zone minute guy.  He might be on the big Canucks.  

[-AJ-]

I think Lammikko is the more interesting of the two pieces received in the Juolevi trade.

 

Some things I found about him:

 

- Although he's a RW, he actually takes faceoffs quite often, though isn't great at them. He's listed as a RW on HockeyDB and Hockey-Reference, but a C on NHL.com

- Very defensive usage in his 84 NHL games (39.8% OZS)

- Very low offensive output at the NHL level

- Doesn't take too many penalties, but doesn't draw many either

- Was an option on the 2nd PK unit for Florida last year (looks like he was often used on that unit, but sometimes maybe subbed out)

[JustABandwagoner]

18 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think Lammikko is the more interesting of the two pieces received in the Juolevi trade.

 

Some things I found about him:

 

- Although he's a RW, he actually takes faceoffs quite often, though isn't great at them. He's listed as a RW on HockeyDB and Hockey-Reference, but a C on NHL.com

- Very defensive usage in his 84 NHL games (39.8% OZS)

- Very low offensive output

- Doesn't take too many penalties, but doesn't draw many either

- Was an option on the 2nd PK unit for Florida last year (looks like he was often used on that unit, but sometimes maybe subbed out)

 

Im surprised by his Liiga production. 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

 

By the looks of it, he seems to be a very good skater with some sneaky playmaking skills.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

[Captain Canuck #12]

46 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Reading this, it sounds like Lammikko is exactly the type of player the Canucks most wanted and needed to add to their forward group.  It's hard to imagine him not sticking with the big team.  The only caveat relates to his poor face off percentage.  Makes me wonder if they will play him as a winger instead of a centre.

[GoldenAlien]

With Sutter still out and Gadjovich claimed, getting Lammikko kills two birds with one stone -- adds some size to the bottom 6, and can play C. He's a better fit for 4C than Petan, I imagine he'd get a chance there to start the season until Sutter comes back. Maybe they move him to the wing after, but this prevents Miller having to move to C and creating a hole in the top 6. 

 

[-Moose]

But can he survive the bag skate!?

[Captain Canuck #12]

1 hour ago, GoldenAlien said:

With Sutter still out and Gadjovich claimed, getting Lammikko kills two birds with one stone -- adds some size to the bottom 6, and can play C. He's a better fit for 4C than Petan, I imagine he'd get a chance there to start the season until Sutter comes back. Maybe they move him to the wing after, but this prevents Miller having to move to C and creating a hole in the top 6. 

 

I think this is more of a question of whether Green just likes having Miller play C, so that he can potentially have 3 scoring lines.  If so, maybe he just stays there,  Dickenson centres the fourth line (until Sutter returns) and Lammikko plays wing.  If not, then probably Dickenson moves to third line C and Lammikko gets to play centre until Sutter returns (that is, unless Green likes Dowling there better than Lammikko).

Edited October 10, 2021 by Captain Canuck #12

[FaninMex]

4 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

I think this is more of a question of whether Green just likes having Miller play C, so that he can potentially have 3 scoring lines.  If so, maybe he just stays there,  Dickenson centres the fourth line (until Sutter returns) and Lammikko plays wing.  If not, then probably Dickenson moves to third line C and Lammikko gets to play centre until Sutter returns (that is, unless Green likes Dowling there better than Lammikko).

I hope this guys gets the 4 c over Miller playing C. Having 3 average scoring lines is worse than having 2 strong scoring lines.

[FaninMex]

 

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Reading this, it sounds like Lammikko is exactly the type of player the Canucks most wanted and needed to add to their forward group.  It's hard to imagine him not sticking with the big team.  The only caveat relates to his poor face off percentage.  Makes me wonder if they will play him as a winger instead of a centre.

Totally curious, where did you arrive at the conclusion that he has a poor faceoff percentage? I don't see it in this text. Do you have another source?

 

Nvm, I looked it up. 44 percent is not ideal, but I don't think it's considered 'poor'. It's not worse than what Gaudette brought to the table.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Dazzle

[Law of Goalies]

18 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Totally curious, where did you arrive at the conclusion that he has a poor faceoff percentage? I don't see it in this text. Do you have another source?

 

Nvm, I looked it up. 44 percent is not ideal, but I don't think it's considered 'poor'. It's not worse than what Gaudette brought to the table.

 

 

It's actually in the stats AJ provided 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I know most CDCers don’t like reading/listening to Drance, but apparently they know each other from Florida, and I definitely appreciated what Tommy Boy had to say about Juho:

 

We have quite a few guys who are the opposite of a “bit limited with the puck,” but can definitely can use a 6’2”, 200 lb two-way C/W who “will work his absolute bag off every shift.”

[GB5]

8 hours ago, GoldenAlien said:

With Sutter still out and Gadjovich claimed, getting Lammikko kills two birds with one stone -- adds some size to the bottom 6, and can play C. He's a better fit for 4C than Petan, I imagine he'd get a chance there to start the season until Sutter comes back. Maybe they move him to the wing after, but this prevents Miller having to move to C and creating a hole in the top 6. 

 

I know nothing about this player but I agree that it almost sounds like he may be the best option at this point for 4C as long as he works hard defensively and can get at least 45% faceoff wins. 

 

[Captain Canuck #12]

58 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Totally curious, where did you arrive at the conclusion that he has a poor faceoff percentage? I don't see it in this text. Do you have another source?

 

Nvm, I looked it up. 44 percent is not ideal, but I don't think it's considered 'poor'. It's not worse than what Gaudette brought to the table.

 

 

I base the "poor" description on the fact that Petterson has usually been considered to at least be 'weak' on faceoffs and his yearly percentages have fallen with the 41%-45% range, similar to Gaudette, who was also never considered strong on faceoffs here.  Last year, between Horvat, Miller, Sutter & Beagle, none ended up lower than 53%. Lammikko falls within the same range as Petterson and Gaudette, which at least on this team, makes him seem weak on faceoffs and liable to either be put on the wing or to have someone else step in and take faceoffs for him.

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

I base the "poor" description on the fact that Petterson has usually been considered to at least be 'weak' on faceoffs and his yearly percentages have fallen with the 41%-45% range, similar to Gaudette, who was also never considered strong on faceoffs here.  Last year, between Horvat, Miller, Sutter & Beagle, none ended up lower than 53%. Lammikko falls within the same range as Petterson and Gaudette, which at least on this team, makes him seem weak on faceoffs and liable to either be put on the wing or to have someone else step in and take faceoffs for him.

I would agree. Personally, I would say anything below 47% is poor for a centreman, other than particularly young players. Once a centre is about 24 or so, I would expect him to have gotten at least to around 47% minimum to avoid being a detriment. Henrik Sedin, for example, was usually closer to being a mediocre face-off guy, averaging 48.7% from 2007-08 onwards, but during his prime, he was at 50.7%.

 

I would especially expect a defensive forward to put significant work in his faceoffs and be at least at about 49% or higher on average. Notable Canuck examples would be Ryan Johnson (50.3%), Brandon Sutter (52.5%), Ryan Kesler (54.9%), Maxime Lapierre (51.3%), Manny Malhotra (60.6%), Jay Beagle (57.3%), and even Michael Chaput (53.6%).

 

There are exceptions, but I think they limit their usefulness in a defensive role by not being great. Some poor examples would be Shawn Matthias (45.5%) and Nick Bonino (47.4%, though he's since improved). Markus Granlund (41.7%) was so bad at them that he was often used as a winger instead, thus lowering his versatility. Gaudette (41.1%) stuck out like a sore thumb, though he was young so it was more forgivable. Pettersson (41.7%) is also abhorrent, but he did make a big improvement this past year up to 45.0%, which is encouraging.

 

I think both Dickinson and Lammikko are at roughly the age where players often take a big jump in their face-off percentages. Both have been trending upward--Lammikko is close to Petey's level and Dickinson just above that, though neither are very good now--hopefully that changes this year.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I got caught up in the excitement of research.

[Mackcanuck]

Juho Lammikko was taken one pick before Nikita Tryamkin! 

 

[JM_]

9 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I know most CDCers don’t like reading/listening to Drance, but apparently they know each other from Florida, and I definitely appreciated what Tommy Boy had to say about Juho:

 

We have quite a few guys who are the opposite of a “bit limited with the puck,” but can definitely can use a 6’2”, 200 lb two-way C/W who “will work his absolute bag off every shift.”

 

I'm starting to wonder if this is the piece we should be excited about for this year. Our 4th line isn't settled in the least and if we ended up with another Motte that would be fantastic.