Canucks record on drafting and developing talent

[fanfor42]

Current Canucks drafted by the team:

 

Demko 2nd rd

Petey 1st rd

Horvat 1st rd

Boeser 1st rd

Hogz 2nd rd

Podz 1st rd

Hughes 1st rd.

 

That is 7 players out of the current roster of 23. That is all the current Canucks who have been drafted since 2013 who are playing for the team now. Horvat of course was drafted by the previous regime. So only 6 have been drafted by Benning.

 

How many current Canucks were developed in the minors by the Canucks Utica/Abby.  Answer Demko. That's it. 1player.

 

No current forward or defensemen on the Canucks roster were developed by the Canucks minor league system.  Not a single one.

 

That's in 8 years. That's with all the players that we drafted and all the years that fans felt so good about the drafting and the pipeline and the possibilities. (Remember all the posts and conversations about how great the future looked?)

 

This is the current reality.

 

Minors have Klim Dipietro Woo Silovs Rathbone McDonaugh and a handful of others.  But not great and by all accounts in the bottom half of NHL prospect pools currently.

 

Drafted and gone include Virtanen McCann Forsling Gaudette Juolevi Gadjovich Tryamkin and a bunch of others.

 

Ok.  Time to assess the current Canuck regime.  

 

Have they done a good job drafting and developing talent? Is their job good enough to be a competitive team? Is their job good enough to be a Cup winner? 

 

Or have they done a lousy job and left the organization in a mess?

 

Thx.

 

 

 

[Bounce000]

Hmm, nothing wrong with making the big club right off the bat if they deserve it.

[khay]

Drafting, yes.

 

Developing? A big FAIL.

 

The organization is not in a total mess. It's got good pieces but it's missing some players that make the team hard to play against and players that can chip in gritty goals in a game like tonight's.

 

I think the first thing I would try is to change the coach and see if that's going to do anything. Kinda like the Flames. Their GM knew they had good roster but without results, so he changed the coach.

 

But if our ownership is not behind the idea of firing a coach in his first year to save money, then I think it's time for a new management to come in and make the necessary change at the end of the season. Well, unless JB makes some roster changes now and we miraculously make the playoffs and go to the WCF.

 

Again, look at Calgary. They got a coach who knows what kind of hockey wins you games. And they added some nice players that makes the team harder to play against, i.e., Tanev and Marky but there are others like Blake Coleman and all of a sudden, their core players are delivering big time.

 

We could be like Calgary if we ship out some players and add players that better complete the roster. 

 

 

 

[DeNiro]

Anaheim and Detroit are showing what JB did was not that special.

 

6 bottom 10 finishes in his 8 years and he doesn’t have more to show for it than any other team that was that bad during those years.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by DeNiro

[Drakrami]

Our 1st round picks over the last 8 years 6, 23, 5, 5, 7, 10, 20, 9. Any John Doe shoulda at least drafted 4-5 pretty good roster players. We have Boeser/Pettersson/Hughes/Polkolzin to show for and traded for Miller/Garland. Benning's draft results are overrated have been saying for some time; there is no later round drafting success at all. Demko's emergence is adding to the resume though. 

[DS4quality]

12 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Our 1st round picks over the last 8 years 6, 23, 5, 5, 7, 10, 20, 9. Any John Doe shoulda at least drafted 4-5 pretty good roster players. We have Boeser/Pettersson/Hughes/Polkolzin to show for and traded for Miller/Garland. Benning's draft results are overrated have been saying for some time; there is no later round drafting success at all. Demko's emergence is adding to the resume though. 

Canucks have been so bad for so long and not one top 3 pick. Like so bad... Edmonton had 4 1st overall picks in 10 years...4.  Canucks won't get any help until they get a top 3 pick. And some fresh voices

[Elias Pettersson]

51 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Current Canucks drafted by the team:

 

Demko 2nd rd

Petey 1st rd

Horvat 1st rd

Boeser 1st rd

Hogz 2nd rd

Podz 1st rd

Hughes 1st rd.

 

That is 7 players out of the current roster of 23. That is all the current Canucks who have been drafted since 2013 who are playing for the team now. Horvat of course was drafted by the previous regime. So only 6 have been drafted by Benning.

 

How many current Canucks were developed in the minors by the Canucks Utica/Abby.  Answer Demko. That's it. 1player.

 

No current forward or defensemen on the Canucks roster were developed by the Canucks minor league system.  Not a single one.

 

That's in 8 years. That's with all the players that we drafted and all the years that fans felt so good about the drafting and the pipeline and the possibilities. (Remember all the posts and conversations about how great the future looked?)

 

This is the current reality.

 

Minors have Klim Dipietro Woo Silovs Rathbone McDonaugh and a handful of others.  But not great and by all accounts in the bottom half of NHL prospect pools currently.

 

Drafted and gone include Virtanen McCann Forsling Gaudette Juolevi Gadjovich Tryamkin and a bunch of others.

 

Ok.  Time to assess the current Canuck regime.  

 

Have they done a good job drafting and developing talent? Is their job good enough to be a competitive team? Is their job good enough to be a Cup winner? 

 

Or have they done a lousy job and left the organization in a mess?

 

Thx.

 

 

 

Colorado, which apparently has a great record for drafting and developing talent under Joe Sakic, also have 7 players in their current lineup that have been drafted since 2011 not 2013:

 

MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Byram, Jost, Newhook, Rantanen.  They have an 8th player, Kaut, who's been in and out of their lineup similar to Rathbone, so both of those players wash out.

 

The difference with Benning versus Sakic is that Benning was able to obtain top talent outside of the 1st round.  Demko and Hoglander are 2rd round picks.  Every one of Sakic's draft picks were drafted in the top 10 of the 1sr round except Newhook, who was drafted at 16.  Sakic doesn't have one single home grown player in his current lineup that was drafted outside of the 1st round.

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Colorado, which apparently has a great record for drafting and developing talent under Joe Sakic, also have 7 players in their current lineup that have been drafted since 2011 not 2013:

 

MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Byram, Jost, Newhook, Rantanen.  They have an 8th player, Kaut, who's been in and out of their lineup similar to Rathbone, so both of those players wash out.

 

The difference with Benning versus Sakic is that Benning was able to obtain top talent outside of the 1st round.  Demko and Hoglander are 2rd round picks.  Every one of Sakic's draft picks were drafted in the top 10 of the 1sr round except Newhook, who was drafted at 16.  Sakic doesn't have one single home grown player in his current lineup that was drafted outside of the 1st round.

Now look at what’s in their system currently being developed and compare that to Van.

[wallstreetamigo]

The Canucks have been horrible at developing players in their system for a decade or more now. 

[fanfor42]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Colorado, which apparently has a great record for drafting and developing talent under Joe Sakic, also have 7 players in their current lineup that have been drafted since 2011 not 2013:

 

MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Byram, Jost, Newhook, Rantanen.  They have an 8th player, Kaut, who's been in and out of their lineup similar to Rathbone, so both of those players wash out.

 

The difference with Benning versus Sakic is that Benning was able to obtain top talent outside of the 1st round.  Demko and Hoglander are 2rd round picks.  Every one of Sakic's draft picks were drafted in the top 10 of the 1sr round except Newhook, who was drafted at 16.  Sakic doesn't have one single home grown player in his current lineup that was drafted outside of the 1st round.

You are cherry picking by selecting Colorado.  Edm has 12 drafted players on their current roster and Tampa has 13.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Now look at what’s in their system currently being developed and compare that to Van.

That wasn't really the OP's statement.  He was analyzing the current lineup versus other teams.  Sakic's current lineup is identical to Benning's in terms of home grown talent, with the exception that Sakic was allowed to draft 1st and 2nd overall while Benning hasn't had any picks inside the top 4.  And Benning was able to snag two top players in the 2nd round while Sakic has nobody outside of the top 10 in his current lineup other than Newhook.

 

Colorado may have some better prospects in the AHL, but until they actually develop and make the roster it's a moot point.  For all we know those prospects could end up like Lind and Gadjovich.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

You are cherry picking by selecting Colorado.  Edm has 12 drafted players on their current roster and Tampa has 13.

 

 

Edmonton has the best player in the world who was drafted #1 overall.  His sidekick was drafted 3rd overall.  If Benning had the luxury of drafting 1st overall pick and was allowed to draft McDavid we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  As for Tampa, they are the exception, that is why they have won 2 cups in a row.  No other team is like them so that is cherry picking the other way.

[fanfor42]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Edmonton has the best player in the world who was drafted #1 overall.  His sidekick was drafted 3rd overall.  If Benning had the luxury of drafting 1st overall pick and was allowed to draft McDavid we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  As for Tampa, they are the exception, that is why they have won 2 cups in a row.  No other team is like them so that is cherry picking the other way.

What? How does drafting 1 and 3 mean Edm gets 12 drafted players on their roster and nux have only 7?

 

If you want to disagree at least make sense please. Their other picks were 22 14 8 10 22 4 and 7 which are arguably worse than the Canucks picks during those years. No 1 and 3 but the nux had 5's and 6's and 9's etc. 

 

The point is they have 5 more drafted players on their roster than the nux do. And they are a much better team right now by any measure.

 

 

 

[Drakrami]

32 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

Canucks have been so bad for so long and not one top 3 pick. Like so bad... Edmonton had 4 1st overall picks in 10 years...4.  Canucks won't get any help until they get a top 3 pick. And some fresh voices

Yeah a full rebuild was needed back in 2015/16. Gut everything and trade the veterans; that should guarantee us a top 5 pick each year. Instead we retooled and even went it up a notch the last 2 years by trading away our 1sts. Now we are in limbo. 

[hammertime]

NVM misunderstood. There sure is some narrative here. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by hammertime

[Quinn Huges]

4 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Markstrom would like a word. 

Why?

[DS4quality]

20 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Yeah a full rebuild was needed back in 2015/16. Gut everything and trade the veterans; that should guarantee us a top 5 pick each year. Instead we retooled and even went it up a notch the last 2 years by trading away our 1sts. Now we are in limbo. 

Club 16 jimbo limbo

[Elias Pettersson]

Just now, fanfor42 said:

What? How does drafting 1 and 3 mean Edm gets 12 drafted players on their roster and nux have only 7?

 

If you want to disagree at least make sense please. Their other picks were 22 14 8 10 22 4 and 7 which are arguably worse than the Canucks picks during those years. No 1 and 3 but the nux had 5's and 6's and 9's etc. 

 

The point is they have 5 more drafted players on their roster than the nux do. And they are a much better team right now by any measure.

 

 

 

My point was it doesn't matter how many home grown draft picks Edmonton has on their team.  Without McDavid they are not even a playoff team.  So it's a moot point.  Colorado is a much better comparable to Vancouver because they have the same number of picks in their lineup and Sakic is known as a good drafter of talent.  Sakic's record isn't any better than Benning's. 

 

Also, Ken Holland never even drafted any of those players on Edmonton other than Broberg who has played one game in the NHL.  Chiarelli is the mastermind behind most of Edmonton's picks not Holland.  

 

Also, Edmonton only has 10 guys in their lineup since 2013 and not 12, unless you are going all the way back to 2011.  If that is the case then you are looking at 4 GM's that have picked those 12 players versus 2 GM's for the Canucks (Gillis only accounts for one player).  In 2 more years Benning might have another 3-4 drafted players in his lineup.

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, DS4quality said:

Canucks have been so bad for so long and not one top 3 pick. Like so bad... Edmonton had 4 1st overall picks in 10 years...4.  Canucks won't get any help until they get a top 3 pick. And some fresh voices

Drafting is rigged. Open it up. 

Bettman has his fingers in everything. 

He even massaged Chicago's cup win over us. PR protection move. We were expendable in that Chi fiasco. 

[Coconuts]

Our inability to develop complimentary players is def concerning, particularly how long Benning's had to do so. We've very little to show on our current roster beyond top prospects who made the jump almost immediately. 

 

Surely another GM could draft well and navigate how we develop prospects differently.