[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

You never know, but it'd go against everything that's been reported regarding Bo and management. 

 

If you wanna go around in circles regarding this what if be my guest though. 

Maybe management is making public their desire to extend Bo so any offers would be better?  JR has said ourfirst choice would be to extend Miller too.  

If Bo will not extend for less that 6.5 per (don't care too much about term, but if 8 years the cap should come down to 6.25) then we should move him.  I’d rather pay Miller 8.5 per than Bo 6.5.  I think Miller will drop down to a 70 point guy in four years.  Bo might be a bottom six guy who gets 30 points in 4 years.  

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Maybe management is making public their desire to extend Bo so any offers would be better?  JR has said ourfirst choice would be to extend Miller too.  

If Bo will not extend for less that 6.5 per (don't care too much about term, but if 8 years the cap should come down to 6.25) then we should move him.  I’d rather pay Miller 8.5 per than Bo 6.5.  I think Miller will drop down to a 70 point guy in four years.  Bo might be a bottom six guy who gets 30 points in 4 years.  

Dunno, can you legitimately source that? Because from what I can tell there hasn't been so much as a whisper regarding Horvat in a while. I've been operating under the assumption Bo will be easier to sign and they're just waiting on the Miller domino to drop one way or another.

[steviewonder20]

4 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Miller isn't gonna walk so who cares?

Miller isn’t going to re-sign here so who cares?

[guntrix]

Horvat: I want to stay in the organization.

 

Miller: show me the money! 
 

I’m no insider, but I have a feeling Horvat will be easier to resign. 

[Goal:thecup]

Bottom line is, It Is Up To JT Miller.

If he cannot accept our offer and the situation/opportunities here, he will force us to trade him.

We are not in a position to hand him that 'retirement fund contract' of too many years and too much AAV.

JR has repeatedly said that management will not allow JTM to walk away for nothing.

 

[Goal:thecup]

I am pondering, and may not make much sense here, but I'm willing to sound stupid again, so here goes:

 

Given that, (assumption #1) JTM will be traded; maybe we should be reconsidering the 50% retention, to maximize the return, but also to enable a deal to actually be concluded in this extremely tight cap situation; no getting rid of dog contracts, or etc.

So, JTM out at 50% retained.

 

Next, assumption #2, there is a team (or teams, oc) out there who have an RD at about the same AAV of Miller - 50%, that they are willing to part with, and that we are willing to accept.

So at this point, we would have the initial bones of a deal.

 

Fleshing out the bones with pick(s) and prospect(s)(P&P) so as not to disrupt either teams cap crunch, let's look at what's out there under these parameters and assumptions.

I will leave that to you wizards (not being facetious; really appreciate what the good posters here bring to the table) to find the team, the RD, and the P&P.

 

Cheers!  And GO CANUCKS GO!

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Hyperbole. Very few people have suggested it would be franchise changing. Get some solid/useful  pieces to help during our actual contention window, don't commit gaudy cap to a player bound to decline halfway through contract/the start of our contention window. The end.

 

 

Nope. Wrong again. I still expect a typical "rental" return. See Giroux last year. We're not talking about settling for shiny beads here.

 

 

 

Thing is, "contention window", one of them could be considered as right now (for better or worse).   That's the unfortunate reality.   Brock, Demko, QHs, EPs maybe Podz ... with some good support guys etc.   I don't think anyones saying Miller's next deal will age well (well a couple posters who couldn't debate it really, Miller isn't going into the HHOF unless he does his best Howe / Bower impression) ...but it does it actually fit that bad with his particular window? (QHs and EPs first one)...

 

As does Horvats.   I highly doubt EP is ready yet, or that a 8-8.5 x 6 year deal hurts us that much either (not much point in debating that one yet what it could be and what it should be etc , a lot still depends on this season, and next off season market and overall cap situation, and yes taxes in BC vs Dallas etc  ...)

 

Have always had big doubts whatever Miller gets will move the needle much for a couple seasons anyways.   It's a tough to predict.  Sure wasn't Schnieder, Chytill and a first lol (and said it at the time several times, trying to use humour even to get that across).    If done right there will be two windows or just one very long one.   I'm ok with that.   We won't ever be in a position to load up like 15 US teams can, six can afford an extra Stamkos or Kucherov or a couple Millers.   That's a huge competitive disadvantage to VAN, OTT, TO and MTL especially. 

 

Your absolutely correct, best case Miller gains us for the future ... that future however, for me at least, is in serious doubt without him the next two years anyways.   Play to a teams strengths isn't a bad thing.   Right now that is forward depth (down the middle especially, a lot of C/W's available) ... very stable goaltending.     

 

Not so sure how management is leaning they've done their job in keeping their lips tight, and a few comments, without proper context added, definitely isn't tipping a hand.   And it's extremely fluid. Lundkvist  and a first lol... Rathbone is a better player right now by a large margin.   Sure maybe that could change (but the point is, Rathbone is a better player right now and the year before as well)..so Miller for a bag of pucks.  Allvin would have been burned for that deal and rightly so. 

 

   Don't see how that's good for a team,  taking their best player and trading for a B level D prospect and a late first just because it's "better then nothing".      And won't ever see it that way.   I'm totally happy with Millers value just being a good season, and some valuable playoff experience.   Would go a long way in decision making next off season.     Playoffs rarely follow a script, and some guys surprise, others just do their job and some disappoint.    That's the team i want management to work with.   Maybe this season  we can do both (trade Miller and have a post season).     Down the stretch this team was scary good.   Not fooled by that either.   But am curious if they can take steps on that and do it through the entire season.    And if they can can't wait to see how many posters on this site are on the "keep Miller for the post season!" bandwagon - go for it!  be buyers etc lol.    

 

Capwise - i know JB buggered it pretty good, but our best chance really should be this season.   Virtually our entire core is on their second deals. 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by IBatch

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I guess I should've been more clear, I am more concerned about the deal including one premium piece rather then a mish mash of mediocre picks and grade B prospects.  

 

I know that premium players get 2 or 3 pieces coming back. 

 

Some posters seem less clear on that point...

 

17 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Thing is, "contention window", one of them could be considered as right now (for better or worse).  

 

Are we though? Given management's comments, they don't seem to think so. Our roster holes, right D succession issues, cap, organizational depth, core not/barely in their prime... Don't seem to jive with that either.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by aGENT

[IBatch]

22 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Bottom line is, It Is Up To JT Miller.

If he cannot accept our offer and the situation/opportunities here, he will force us to trade him.

We are not in a position to hand him that 'retirement fund contract' of too many years and too much AAV.

JR has repeatedly said that management will not allow JTM to walk away for nothing.

 

Maybe i missed the memo, but i don't re-call one time Allvin or JR said "we can't let Miller walk away for nothing"... all I remember, was a good old fashioned dig on JB, soon after JR taking over which paraphrased was " this TEAM can't afford to let UFAs leave for nothing",  and since then it's been a lightning rod for pro trade Miller camp.   Surprised Horvat fear hasn't emerged yet ... but just for fun why not worry about that too?   His family lived in ONT and TO is awfully close to losing their love affair with both Tavares and Mathews ... a better option in Horvat would solve a lot of things - and OTT for sure would love to add him and can afford him, have a glut of guys they could trade to fit him in. 

 

Just teasing you and i could have picked someone else instead to make a point so please don't take it personally, everyone (yours a lot more then some lol) on this site has value to it and like looking at all the angles including the devils advocate.   And maybe i missed something, don't listen to every presser. 

 

For sure he's going to look like a bit of a hypocrite if he doesn't sign or trade him.   But i'd rather he didn't sign him then screw us with a totally ridiculous contract.   That's a LOT better then NOTHING.   Especially if it means playoffs too.      We do need to trade him before the season  ... or the CDC could become insufferable and i love this part of my day(s) lol. 

[Jester13]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Maybe i missed the memo, but i don't re-call one time Allvin or JR said "we can't let Miller walk away for nothing"... all I remember, was a good old fashioned dig on JB, soon after JR taking over which paraphrased was " this TEAM can't afford to let UFAs leave for nothing",  and since then it's been a lightning rod for pro trade Miller camp.   Surprised Horvat fear hasn't emerged yet ... but just for fun why not worry about that too?   His family lived in ONT and TO is awfully close to losing their love affair with both Tavares and Mathews ... a better option in Horvat would solve a lot of things - and OTT for sure would love to add him and can afford him, have a glut of guys they could trade to fit him in. 

 

Just teasing you and i could have picked someone else instead to make a point so please don't take it personally, everyone (yours a lot more then some lol) on this site has value to it and like looking at all the angles including the devils advocate.   And maybe i missed something, don't listen to every presser. 

 

For sure he's going to look like a bit of a hypocrite if he doesn't sign or trade him.   But i'd rather he didn't sign him then screw us with a totally ridiculous contract.   That's a LOT better then NOTHING.   Especially if it means playoffs too.      We do need to trade him before the season  ... or the CDC could become insufferable and i love this part of my day(s) lol. 

JR has 100% specifically said that they won't let Miller walk for nothing. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

Some posters seem less clear on that point...

 

 

Are we though? Given management's comments, they don't seem to think so. Our roster holes, right D succession issues, cap, organizational depth, core not/barely in their prime... Don't seem to jive with that either.

 

 

No we aren't.   It's a pickle aGENT.    Right now we should be in the early part of our prime cap place "contending window"... we kind of are ok but we both know it's not enough.   I think maybe we should get off the Miller stuff and go to the Brock stuff lol.    Miller .. fine for 6 years i'm cool with that but not at much over 8.     Add some tax stuff we are over 9.... so ... back to the big pickle that I won't stop bringing up until any CAN team wins a cup.    Miller is important but his importance has gone a little out of whack on this thread.    Maybe we can all have a good laugh one day (let's hope so!) and it becomes the new "Burrows do we really need him?! " thread.      Hard not to like the way he plays and the guy personally isn't it?  

 

Ugh...dog days of summer.  What a slog. 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

JR has 100% specifically said that they won't let Miller walk for nothing. 

Can you please refer me to that exact quote?

[Jester13]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Can you please refer me to that exact quote?

https://www.nhl.com/news/canucks-may-not-trade-miller-until-deadline/c-335008674

[Strawbone]

I’m bored. Is anyone else bored?

 

This thread could really use a trade or signing. Enough rumours, I want some action!

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/canucks-may-not-trade-miller-until-deadline/c-335008674

I read this article too, when it came out... so what he said was "i don't see any urgency to trade him until the deadline".. pretty much a normal chat about any future UFA from any GM ... pretty generic.  Don't think this is, or should we take this as the gospel of what happens with Miller.   You also have to consider these were sound bites taken from a discussion, if we don't have the context it's kind of silly isn't it?   Question:  Are you willing to trade Miller and if so when would you do it "  we have to get the best return we can" "there is no urgency until the trade deadline".    Aren't these automatics? 

 

Here's the article:  Again what else is supposed to say.   It's going to be pretty fluid until it isn't anymore:

Canucks won't feel pressure to deal Miller until 2023 NHL Trade Deadline

Would 'have to get the best return we can' if they can't re-sign forward, Vancouver president says

by Kevin Woodley / NHL.com Independent Correspondent

 July 15, 2022

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The Vancouver Canucks won't feel pressure to trade forward J.T. Miller until the 2023 NHL Trade Deadline approaches, president of hockey operations Jim Rutherford said Friday.

Speaking on "Donnie & Dhali -- The Team" on CHEK television, Rutherford pushed back on the idea of growing impatience surrounding the future of Miller, who led the Canucks in points (99) and assists (67) and tied Elias Pettersson for the Vancouver lead in goals (32) last season. The 29-year-old can become an unrestricted free agent after this season.

Rutherford said the Canucks are trying to re-sign him but said it won't be easy to match Miller's contract expectations.

"I'll state the obvious: It can go two ways," Rutherford said. "We can come to an agreement and keep him and we have a very good player. That's always difficult to do when a player is heading to free agency within a year and he's got really good numbers, so of course what the player is expecting in the way of a contract compared to the team is usually different."

If the sides can't agree on a contract, Rutherford said the Canucks will trade Miller, but there wouldn't be pressure to do so for a while.

"If [trying to sign him] doesn't work, we have to get the best return we can for him," Rutherford said. "But I think when the impatience should come on J.T. Miller is when we get closer to the trade deadline, and if we don't have him signed at that point, making sure that we get a return for him. But I don't see where there's any urgency until we get to the trade deadline."

 

 

Top 5 J.T. Miller Plays from the 2021-22 Season

• 02:05 • July 5th, 2022

 

The Canucks improved their forward depth, speed and penalty-killing with the free agent additions Wednesday of Ilya Mikheyev, who signed a four-year contract; Curtis Lazar, who agreed to a three-year contract; Andrei Kuzmenko, who signed a one-year contract; and Dakota Joshua, who agreed to a two-year contract (financial terms not disclosed). But they hope to bolster a defenseman group that remains unchanged from last season, when Vancouver (40-30-12) missed the Stanley Cup Playoffs for the sixth time in seven seasons.

Besides adding help at defenseman, Rutherford has talked about wanting to create more space under the NHL salary cap, and both could be accomplished by trading Miller, whose contract has an average annual value of $5.25 million. Since being acquired in a trade with the Tampa Bay Lightning on June 22, 2019, Miller leads Vancouver in goals (74) and points (217) and is tied with defenseman Quinn Hughes for the team lead in assists (143).

Because of the term left on his contract, he has been mentioned in trade rumors since the lead-up to the 2022 NHL Trade Deadline on March 21.

"What are they impatient about?" Rutherford said when asked about concerns that the sides haven't agreed on a contract. "We have our best forward we still have in our lineup. What's the impatience for?"

On Wednesday, when the free agent market opened, Canucks general manager Patrik Allvin said they would be happy to have Miller to start the season.

"Well, I didn't get any calls today," Allvin said. "Hey, he was our best player last year. I think Jim mentioned there has been teams kicking tires, checking in. It hasn't gone much further than that. We're really excited to have J.T. here for another year. I believe he's excited and ready to come back, and who knows, anything could happen over the next couple of weeks, months, but we're happy to have him back."

The Canucks are facing a similar situation with center Bo Horvat, who can become an unrestricted free agent after this season and whose contract has an AAV of $5.5 million. But Rutherford sounded more optimistic about getting an extension done with him.

"These things will pick up with some of the guys we're trying to get signed like Horvat now that we're through the [2022 Upper Deck NHL] Draft, through the initial part of free agency, but clearly he's a guy we want to be with the Canucks for a long time." Rutherford said. "He's the captain of the team. This should be his team going forward, and hopefully we can get something done sooner than later."

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Edit:  Read what NHL.com wrote... "they will trade Miller"

 

Because JR said "we'd have to get the best return for him".   Also if you've played poker well he's doing that.   He's setting boundaries.  In the media.   As well as letting the team and Miller know to expect changes possibly.    I can paste some articles too, on why Miller won't get traded if it isn't before the season starts if you like, 

Edited August 9, 2022 by IBatch

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

I’m bored. Is anyone else bored?

 

This thread could really use a trade or signing. Enough rumours, I want some action!

[Jester13]

35 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I read this article too, when it came out... so what he said was "i don't see any urgency to trade him until the deadline".. pretty much a normal chat about any future UFA from any GM ... pretty generic.  Don't think this is, or should we take this as the gospel of what happens with Miller.   You also have to consider these were sound bites taken from a discussion, if we don't have the context it's kind of silly isn't it?   Question:  Are you willing to trade Miller and if so when would you do it "  we have to get the best return we can" "there is no urgency until the trade deadline".    Aren't these automatics? 

 

Here's the article:  Again what else is supposed to say.   It's going to be pretty fluid until it isn't anymore:

 

If the sides can't agree on a contract, Rutherford said the Canucks will trade Miller, but there wouldn't be pressure to do so for a while.

"If [trying to sign him] doesn't work, we have to get the best return we can for him," Rutherford said. "But I think when the impatience should come on J.T. Miller is when we get closer to the trade deadline, and if we don't have him signed at that point, making sure that we get a return for him. But I don't see where there's any urgency until we get to the trade deadline."

 

 

 

Edit:  Read what NHL.com wrote... "they will trade Miller"

 

Because JR said "we'd have to get the best return for him".   Also if you've played poker well he's doing that.   He's setting boundaries.  In the media.   As well as letting the team and Miller know to expect changes possibly.    I can paste some articles too, on why Miller won't get traded if it isn't before the season starts if you like, 

Sometimes the best thing to do is admit you're wrong rather than try to justify an untenable stance. It's staring you right in the face, so there's no point tip toeing around this. They aren't not going to let him walk for nothing; they may not get a good return for him, but it'll be better than zero. 

[ilduce39]

The deadline is going to be ridiculous if we’re in contention and Miller is unsigned. You’d think they’ll have to trade him but what a circus.  I could actually see them hanging on at that point.

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I read this article too, when it came out... so what he said was "i don't see any urgency to trade him until the deadline".. pretty much a normal chat about any future UFA from any GM ... pretty generic.  Don't think this is, or should we take this as the gospel of what happens with Miller.   You also have to consider these were sound bites taken from a discussion, if we don't have the context it's kind of silly isn't it?   Question:  Are you willing to trade Miller and if so when would you do it "  we have to get the best return we can" "there is no urgency until the trade deadline".    Aren't these automatics? 

 

Here's the article:  Again what else is supposed to say.   It's going to be pretty fluid until it isn't anymore:

Canucks won't feel pressure to deal Miller until 2023 NHL Trade Deadline

Would 'have to get the best return we can' if they can't re-sign forward, Vancouver president says

by Kevin Woodley / NHL.com Independent Correspondent

 July 15, 2022

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The Vancouver Canucks won't feel pressure to trade forward J.T. Miller until the 2023 NHL Trade Deadline approaches, president of hockey operations Jim Rutherford said Friday.

Speaking on "Donnie & Dhali -- The Team" on CHEK television, Rutherford pushed back on the idea of growing impatience surrounding the future of Miller, who led the Canucks in points (99) and assists (67) and tied Elias Pettersson for the Vancouver lead in goals (32) last season. The 29-year-old can become an unrestricted free agent after this season.

Rutherford said the Canucks are trying to re-sign him but said it won't be easy to match Miller's contract expectations.

"I'll state the obvious: It can go two ways," Rutherford said. "We can come to an agreement and keep him and we have a very good player. That's always difficult to do when a player is heading to free agency within a year and he's got really good numbers, so of course what the player is expecting in the way of a contract compared to the team is usually different."

If the sides can't agree on a contract, Rutherford said the Canucks will trade Miller, but there wouldn't be pressure to do so for a while.

"If [trying to sign him] doesn't work, we have to get the best return we can for him," Rutherford said. "But I think when the impatience should come on J.T. Miller is when we get closer to the trade deadline, and if we don't have him signed at that point, making sure that we get a return for him. But I don't see where there's any urgency until we get to the trade deadline."

 

 

Top 5 J.T. Miller Plays from the 2021-22 Season

• 02:05 • July 5th, 2022

 

The Canucks improved their forward depth, speed and penalty-killing with the free agent additions Wednesday of Ilya Mikheyev, who signed a four-year contract; Curtis Lazar, who agreed to a three-year contract; Andrei Kuzmenko, who signed a one-year contract; and Dakota Joshua, who agreed to a two-year contract (financial terms not disclosed). But they hope to bolster a defenseman group that remains unchanged from last season, when Vancouver (40-30-12) missed the Stanley Cup Playoffs for the sixth time in seven seasons.

Besides adding help at defenseman, Rutherford has talked about wanting to create more space under the NHL salary cap, and both could be accomplished by trading Miller, whose contract has an average annual value of $5.25 million. Since being acquired in a trade with the Tampa Bay Lightning on June 22, 2019, Miller leads Vancouver in goals (74) and points (217) and is tied with defenseman Quinn Hughes for the team lead in assists (143).

Because of the term left on his contract, he has been mentioned in trade rumors since the lead-up to the 2022 NHL Trade Deadline on March 21.

"What are they impatient about?" Rutherford said when asked about concerns that the sides haven't agreed on a contract. "We have our best forward we still have in our lineup. What's the impatience for?"

On Wednesday, when the free agent market opened, Canucks general manager Patrik Allvin said they would be happy to have Miller to start the season.

"Well, I didn't get any calls today," Allvin said. "Hey, he was our best player last year. I think Jim mentioned there has been teams kicking tires, checking in. It hasn't gone much further than that. We're really excited to have J.T. here for another year. I believe he's excited and ready to come back, and who knows, anything could happen over the next couple of weeks, months, but we're happy to have him back."

The Canucks are facing a similar situation with center Bo Horvat, who can become an unrestricted free agent after this season and whose contract has an AAV of $5.5 million. But Rutherford sounded more optimistic about getting an extension done with him.

"These things will pick up with some of the guys we're trying to get signed like Horvat now that we're through the [2022 Upper Deck NHL] Draft, through the initial part of free agency, but clearly he's a guy we want to be with the Canucks for a long time." Rutherford said. "He's the captain of the team. This should be his team going forward, and hopefully we can get something done sooner than later."

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Edit:  Read what NHL.com wrote... "they will trade Miller"

 

Because JR said "we'd have to get the best return for him".   Also if you've played poker well he's doing that.   He's setting boundaries.  In the media.   As well as letting the team and Miller know to expect changes possibly.    I can paste some articles too, on why Miller won't get traded if it isn't before the season starts if you like, 

Well, others have given you enough, but it was in The Province newspaper but I threw the clipping away.

(My sister gets the Province and sends me all the Nux and Lions news weekly; but I don't always read them right away.)

I am not going to try to look it up; but it was very clear to me that trading JTM on or before the TDL, was the last resort; and he would not let him walk for naught.

Cheers I-B!

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'd walk away from a third but take a second. I don't think we're making the playoffs anyway. 

thanks I appreciate the honest response on it.

 

For me that 26-31 pick is the same as a 2nd round pick (which has been shown to be true in terms of # games played by draft position). And for a playoff run I would walk from that. 

 

A top 15... thats a different beast.