[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Slegr said:

I have to admit that I’m starting to get impatient with our management. All this early talk about needed change, and all the leadership changes towards quite a top-heavy management group has led to very little so far. We’ve been passing key junctures in trade timelines, with radio silence from our GM. 

We still need to either sign Miller long term or trade him before the start of the season. Anything else is a much riskier endeavour that relies very much on chance. Quite honestly, I’ve expected more from the management team by this point in the off season, and I hope they prove my creeping impatience wrong.

For all of the abuse that Benning got at least he went all in to try and make us competitive last summer.  Most people were happy with the moves he made and considering Bruce took his exact team and almost made the playoffs it tells me our team isn't as bad as some people think.

 

Benning was basically working alone and made like 7-8 moves last summer.  JR/PA have 14 AGM's and they can't even decide what to have for dinner...

[YearoftheNuck]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

For all of the abuse that Benning got at least he went all in to try and make us competitive last summer.  Most people were happy with the moves he made and considering Bruce took his exact team and almost made the playoffs it tells me our team isn't as bad as some people think.

 

Benning was basically working alone and made like 7-8 moves last summer.  JR/PA have 14 AGM's and they can't even decide what to have for dinner...

It’s so nice to hear someone say this on here. I’ve been thinking the exact same thoughts for a while now. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, Ilya Mikheyev said:

with Kadri formally out of Colorado's plans, I do wonder if they try for Miller, go all in for a repeat - cup windows only last so long.

They don't have a true #1 goalie and JT Compher is on their 2nd line.  With Edmonton and Calgary loading up Colorado really needs to make another move this summer.  Miller is the perfect rental for them really.  

[Jaimito]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

For all of the abuse that Benning got at least he went all in to try and make us competitive last summer.  Most people were happy with the moves he made and considering Bruce took his exact team and almost made the playoffs it tells me our team isn't as bad as some people think.

 

Benning was basically working alone and made like 7-8 moves last summer.  JR/PA have 14 AGM's and they can't even decide what to have for dinner...

They are happy with the current group.  JB made lots of useless moves last season, tied them to cap problems. JB also failed to change the coaching staff and that cost them a playoff spot.

 

The entire 4th line is gone, Hamonic gone, Halak etc.  If you indeed believe  "it tells me our team isn't as bad as some people think.", then why would they make drastic moves?  They signed Boeser, got Lazar and  the Russian rocket II, kuzmenko and you have Podz developing, Rathbone, Höglander, as well.  Still a month to training camp, see what happens.  The current management is more disciplined and experienced. 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, YearoftheNuck said:

It’s so nice to hear someone say this on here. I’ve been thinking the exact same thoughts for a while now. 

With JR it's what have you done for me lately.  Don't care that he won 3 cups, two of them on a stacked team that he never built.  I will judge him solely based on what he does in Vancouver.  So far, it's all meh to me.  Overpaid for a 3rd pairing Dman, overpaid for a penalty killing specialist, added some 4th liners and got a freebie from Russia mostly because of the links said player had with the other players on the team.  The summer of Benning was much more productive and entertaining...

[KKnight]

2 hours ago, billabong said:

To nyi: Miller (with 8x8 extension) 

 

to van: pageau, wahlstrom, Wilde, unprotected 1st round pick 2023 

 

Podz-pettersson-boeser

kuz-horvat-wahlstrom

mikheyev-pageau-garland 

pearson-lazar-hoglander 

dickinson

 

hughes-schenn

OEL-myers

dermott-Wilde 

rathbone-burroughs

 

LTIR: ferland, poolman 

 

mikheyev-pageau-garland has the makings to be a dominant 3rd line that could help push us into a wild card spot and cover up this teams suspect blueline.
 

I see a lot of coleman-gourde-goodrow in that line

Although I hold out the .00001% chance for Dobson in a 1 for 1. I think a more likely fair trade could be...

 

Van: Pageau, Dufour or Raty and 2023 1st 

Isles: Miller with extension & Hoglander 

 

The trade could end up bad for us tbh. I just think it helps us get some assets and establish our cap structure. Ideally Miller signs for 8-8.5 over 6 and everyone's happy. 

 

Mikheyev - Pete - Boeser 

Kuzmenko - Bo - Podz 

Pearson - Pageau - Garland

Dickinson - Joshua - Lazar 

 

Defence stays the same. 

 

We could be sneaky good. Couple of question marks, how does Podz do with added responsibility, How good is Kuzmenko in translating to the NHL, Mikheyev's role? Boeser resurgence? 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

They are happy with the current group.  JB made lots of useless moves last season, tied them to cap problems. JB also failed to change the coaching staff and that cost them a playoff spot.

 

The entire 4th line is gone, Hamonic gone, Halak etc.  If you indeed believe  "it tells me our team isn't as bad as some people think.", then why would they make drastic moves?  They signed Boeser, got Lazar and  the Russian rocket II, kuzmenko and you have Podz developing, Rathbone, Höglander, as well.  Still a month to training camp, see what happens.  The current management is more disciplined and experienced. 

Boeser was drafted by Benning, Maggie the Monkey could have signed him to that extension.  Podkolzin, Rathbone and Höglander are also all Benning draft picks.  The Russian Rocket 2.0 only came here because all of his buddies are here and others convinced him to come and he preferred to live in Vancouver versus the hole that is Edmonton.

 

Why is the entire 4th line gone when they were arguably our best line in many games last season?  The changes made to the 4th line are a lateral move at best to bring in JR's guys.  We didn't have an issue with the 4th line last year, it was never a problem for us.

 

Our biggest problem last year was on the ride side of defence and our penalty killing.  JR brought in a penalty killing specialist and overpaid for him just like Benning used to do.  Nothing different really.  However, he has yet to address our biggest weakness which is the right side of defence, even going so far as to state that Poolman can play in our top 4 when healthy, the same Poolman that everyone thinks shouldn't even be in the lineup.

 

Call me unimpressed.  Wake me up when JR actually makes a major move to improve this team...

[RWJC]

14 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

They are happy with the current group.  JB made lots of useless moves last season, tied them to cap problems. JB also failed to change the coaching staff and that cost them a playoff spot.

 

The entire 4th line is gone, Hamonic gone, Halak etc.  If you indeed believe  "it tells me our team isn't as bad as some people think.", then why would they make drastic moves?  They signed Boeser, got Lazar and  the Russian rocket II, kuzmenko and you have Podz developing, Rathbone, Höglander, as well.  Still a month to training camp, see what happens.  The current management is more disciplined and experienced. 

Exactly this. I don't quite understand people claiming this mgmt is dormant. There's actually been a number of changes and some quality improvements to this roster, we haven't lost any picks to move out dead cap and replaced those dollars yet - which in some ways is earmarking for the raises some of our roster will be due. We can still go over cap in the offseason and may have to until guys like Dickinson and potentially Poolman are traded/waived.

 

We also haven't gone overboard in bringing in any 2nd rate players to fill out our bottom lines, which have become bigger and grittier.

 

Is it a bit of attrition? Yeah, but I'd rather us be consistent about approach and allow the dead money to come off the books organically than waste a potentially important pick to clear cap when we aren't in a place of contention anyway. This year should be about seeing what we have, affording some players the opportunity for progression in their careers (Podz, Hogz, Kuz, Mik, Boner, Burroughs, Martin) while also creating some real competition for spots in the top 6.  It's a far more exciting offseason for me than last year in terms of taking the step forward and getting closer to being in an overall favourable position going forward.

 

I think it's fair to give mgmt a bit more time and see what transpires with the JTM and Bo contracts.

To me that's the real benchmark test/trademark of what this mgmt team might be capable of.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by RWJC

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

We could also make calculated assumptions, that we won't be there in four years too.   That's Demko's last year.  And QHs is up a year after that.   I don't disagree with this either, but find it a bit presumptuous that we will have a better shot in four years then we do right now.  

You don't plan on not signing your club controlled guys. That's silly.  Nevermind making every effort in the interim to continue improving the team for their window, ensuring they don't want to leave. Plan for THAT.

 

 

[coryberg]

27 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Boeser was drafted by Benning, Maggie the Monkey could have signed him to that extension.  Podkolzin, Rathbone and Höglander are also all Benning draft picks.  

All hail king Benning!

[teepain]

7 year x 8 million? 

 

 

[KKnight]

4 hours ago, Slegr said:

I have to admit that I’m starting to get impatient with our management. All this early talk about needed change, and all the leadership changes towards quite a top-heavy management group has led to very little so far. We’ve been passing key junctures in trade timelines, with radio silence from our GM. 

We still need to either sign Miller long term or trade him before the start of the season. Anything else is a much riskier endeavour that relies very much on chance. Quite honestly, I’ve expected more from the management team by this point in the off season, and I hope they prove my creeping impatience wrong.

I rather us be patient, then take any deal tossed our way. Miller is a very good player and is a difference maker on any team, if he's not a part of our future, we should be able to get something we're all comfortable with going forward. Our management team made some good additions. Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Lazar, Joshua. They give us a different look up front. More speed, size and grit, added to an already solid forward group. Our defence on the other hand, needs some work, but I'd say our defense is better than most of the division other than Calgary, Vegas. LA is up in the air, Doughty is a year older and so is Edler. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

You don't plan on not signing your club controlled guys. That's silly.  Nevermind making every effort in the interim to continue improving the team for their window, ensuring they don't want to leave. Plan for THAT.

 

 

Exactly.   And right now Demko plus QHs are cost controlled.   Who knows what their next deals look like, but just like Millers next one, in 4-5 years those guys will be up for theirs too (legacy deals that is).   Capwise this team is entering its peak right now (thanks JB lol it's pretty decent but could be better!).   Possibly even at it this season.

 

Personally i consider this part of our "window" even though it's not wide wide,  it's worth a look at what this team can do with Miller this season .... if the wheels fall of it's pretty easy to trade a few guys to help for the future.    Tricky part is doing it in a way those guys do want to stay indeed, and also manage to ascend or at least stay pretty even while we wait for the D to be sorted.   Teams usually have to wait for cap to go up once their core is on their third deals.    And often (CHI, LA), it doesn't work...once the stars get paid ... yikes. 

 

Question, i do get that it's the 26-32 age you get the best from your group...i've read quite a few saying our window is in four years.   I could agree with that, the majority of our guys will be in that age group then.   Miller (if he stays), would be 33 so just outside it...I'm hoping that we get a long window, like PIT, WSH, Boston,  even St. Louis and SJ had.   And that there will be a few bumps in the road.   

 

I guess i see value in Miller and playoffs versus trading Miller just to avoid his next deal.    It's really tough to guess how this season plays out.   Do we play like we did down the stretch the entire season?   Or do things sink down to Earth a little.   I think the former.   I'm glad Miller hasn't been traded yet, it means like they've said, they are in no rush.   And playoffs for sure is the goal this season.   Hedican/Brown Lafayette ... well maybe Miller becomes that for us at or before the trade line, sure would be nice for us.   Cap won't go up in time to sign both Horvat and Miller ... will it, not without some less then ideal trades return wise.   Tiny bit of space left for next season as it is.   Kadri getting 7 years means Miller likely will want 8. 

 

Edit: Food for thought.   If we simply have to trade Miller because no way he's going to earn his next deal...what makes QHs and Demko so different in 4-5 years?   Will they also need to be traded because they can't earn their legacy deals?  Get QHs will be a couple years younger ... But not Demko. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, teepain said:

7 year x 8 million? 

 

 

With Kadri's deal... Zib's, others.  I think we'd better accept it will either be an 8 year deal with us or 7 somewhere else.   With cap going up likely quite a bit, two seasons from now, only Millers (Horvats too!) first year will be flat cap.   He's worth 8.5-9 right now, currently as he's been playing.   Actually more then that (if he has another boffo season), it's what the Sedins got after just a couple seasons of PPG play.   I think their deals were 11% ish of the cap, also at a time when the cap stalled.  So 8.8-9 definitely is on par.    No way Miller regresses playing on this team.    It's going to get better.   Also i'd say 50/50 Miller either scores 85 points or 100.   That's no longer a fluke (four seasons in a row)....He loves being the man.   And it shows.  

 

There is a way we could shoehorn Miller and Horvat in.    Between the two we are looking at 4-6 million in raises.   That's  Brock and Pearson.    We'd get a tidy return for both those guys.    And it doesn't have to happen until next off season.    Options.    Garland and Ilya M, plus even Kuzmo provide options.    Kuzmo...well THN predicts he's going to score 50ish points ... if he does well we are likely contenders this season.    Garland 62... Brock mid 50's (but also getting his goals).   

 

Miller won't earn his next deal.   Tiny odds he's Pavelski or becoming a HHOFer...only those guys earn their deals in the 33-38 range.   

 

My guess is if he scores 85ish then 8.75 x 7 ... if he scores 100 again, well then double digits is possible.   Down the stretch he was on pace for 120 points ... at one point he had 27 in 15 games lol. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by IBatch

[Hairy Kneel]

I guess the wildcard in all this is how we play this year. Nothing beats winning. And if the Canucks look strong in our division towards securing a playoff spot. If all cylinders are going, Miller might see a future in staying. He might be the exact same Miller that went all beast mode last year. If JT and Bo drag us up the standings, it might be a battle he'd enjoy to see through. 

The right coach, the right time for Petie and Huggy, defense by committee, goal stoppers, and 2 strong leaders in Bo and JT, that could be incentive enough for all parties to work out a deal. 

The team first mentality is a factor that is hard to gauge in the middle of all these contract shenanigans. JT might want to stay and be a part of our progress we made under Coach B. And our forward additions bolster the top 6.

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I guess the wildcard in all this is how we play this year. Nothing beats winning. And if the Canucks look strong in our division towards securing a playoff spot. If all cylinders are going, Miller might see a future in staying. He might be the exact same Miller that went all beast mode last year. If JT and Bo drag us up the standings, it might be a battle he'd enjoy to see through. 

The right coach, the right time for Petie and Huggy, defense by committee, goal stoppers, and 2 strong leaders in Bo and JT, that could be incentive enough for all parties to work out a deal. 

The team first mentality is a factor that is hard to gauge in the middle of all these contract shenanigans. JT might want to stay and be a part of our progress we made under Coach B. And our forward additions bolster the top 6.

This could be on the table for sure.   I did wonder what worked out with Horvats explosion down the stretch too (actually best on team, even EP)... Also hope JR/Allvin follows up with his comments, that he'd be signed before the start of the season.   Sure would be nice to see some buy in with this group. Leaving a little money on the  table that is.    

 

Not sure that pace is sustainable, but do think these guys know what they have to do to win.   And that we are a dark horse based on what we managed with Bruce.   Team got a little stronger this off season.   And look at how many guys on this team that can score 15-40 goals.    EP, Horvat, Miller, Brock, Garland, Podz, Kuzmo, Pearson, Ilya M,  maybe even Linus Karlsson.    4 30 goal scorers and possibly one or two 40 goal scorers and maybe 8 20 goal scorers.  It's crazy.   Haven't seen that since the early 90's Linden teams.    This team has a chance to have one of the best seasons this clubs ever had.    Our PP under Bruce, was better then the peak Sedin years.   Our GF went way up and our GA way down.    

 

Edit:  I think we could be buyers this TDL.   Seems counterintuitive going into the season... Severson would be a great add though.   And wouldn't have to change much to jam him in.   He's going to get futures ... and he's almost certainly traded ... UFA next summer and they both can't afford him and already have their R side sorted out for a long time with their prospects plus Hamilton and Marino. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I guess the wildcard in all this is how we play this year. Nothing beats winning. And if the Canucks look strong in our division towards securing a playoff spot. If all cylinders are going, Miller might see a future in staying. He might be the exact same Miller that went all beast mode last year. If JT and Bo drag us up the standings, it might be a battle he'd enjoy to see through. 

The right coach, the right time for Petie and Huggy, defense by committee, goal stoppers, and 2 strong leaders in Bo and JT, that could be incentive enough for all parties to work out a deal. 

The team first mentality is a factor that is hard to gauge in the middle of all these contract shenanigans. JT might want to stay and be a part of our progress we made under Coach B. And our forward additions bolster the top 6.

Miller has said all the right things.   Loves Vancouver, being a Canuck, the province, the fans,  and his teammates.   Also acknowledges and is grateful that our team finally gave him a shot to be a first line player.  

 

 JR also is saying the right things too... that they are far off in what this team can afford to pay him, and that they are in no rush to trade him.   And won't feel that pressure until closer to the TDL.    Personally i think he's going to feel a lot of heat then.   Because he's could and quite likely will damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.    Can't re-call,  many if any times, a team that's doing very well trading away their best player just because he's going to be a UFA.   Often they don't even if they suck (NYI and Tavares).     The owners might be the ones to make the decision for him.   Playoffs mean money.   As does having a player like Miller on the team (merchandising and seat filling)  and there for sure is a certain logic to getting this core playoff reps now.   Those experiences are awfully important in their "playoff development".

 

    And well, we are a much better team then the bubble one on paper.   What if Demko has a switch in him he can flip.    That's a contender right there with what else we've already got.    To me i'm totally fine with playoffs and Miller chasing money somewhere else if he's not willing to come down or meet JR/Allvin somewhere in the middle. 

[KirkSave]

8 hours ago, cripplereh said:

That is what any coach would say

Boudreau said it was not just Miller's production but his well-rounded game that makes him such an effective player.

"He just comes to play and he cares about winning," Boudreau said. "I remember as soon as I got to Vancouver, he told me all he cares about is winning and those guys are hard to find. ... He pretty well was part of every situation that we had. To us he did an awful lot."

 

BB wants JT back. Can't blame him for that. He does it all for this team.

[Baratheon]

24 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Can't re-call,  many if any times, a team that's doing very well trading away their best player just because he's going to be a UFA.   Often they don't even if they suck (NYI and Tavares).

Huh?  NYI went from missing the playoffs to winning a round in the first year that Tavares left.  They then made it to the conference finals in the next two.  Or am I misunderstanding you here?

[D.B Cooper]

9 hours ago, Slegr said:

I have to admit that I’m starting to get impatient with our management. All this early talk about needed change, and all the leadership changes towards quite a top-heavy management group has led to very little so far. We’ve been passing key junctures in trade timelines, with radio silence from our GM. 

We still need to either sign Miller long term or trade him before the start of the season. Anything else is a much riskier endeavour that relies very much on chance. Quite honestly, I’ve expected more from the management team by this point in the off season, and I hope they prove my creeping impatience wrong.

Agreed.  
Id care less if they did’t get us all the big talk and lip service when they arrived. 
They have done next to nothing and the moves they did make weren’t impressive, or even really good at all.