eeeeergh Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Just now, RWJC said: 1 year removed from 1st overall pick. 1st overall. I agree Miller is worth more, but that said, to the Rags, Laffy is their future superstar elite F. He’s worth as much to them in his state now as Miller is to us. I love Miller as a player and for what he represents/his importance to the Nux, but if I was the Rags, I wouldn’t trade Lafreniere for Miller in any way. Especially when after 1 more season you’re looking at a potential 6-8million cap difference between the two. the only way it makes sense is if the Rags think they can use Miller for a cup run AND also potentially recoup what they lost in Lafreniere by trading him if the wheels come off. All it takes is two major injuries and playoff hopes can be dashed. major risk/reward on both sides, imho Laffys stock has taken a bit of a hit imo. He's been getting 1st line minutes and teammates, but not 1st line results. Its no longer certain that he can be what he was projected to be at the draft. Compare his 1st and 2nd year to EP and QHs 1st and 2nd year to see the diff. Laffy as a "could potentially be a 1st line winger one day" for JT "i will win you a championship as your 1C" Miller isnt a fair deal 1 for 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: Laffys stock has taken a bit of a hit imo. He's been getting 1st line minutes and teammates, but not 1st line results. Its no longer certain that he can be what he was projected to be at the draft. Compare his 1st and 2nd year to EP and QHs 1st and 2nd year to see the diff. Laffy as a "could potentially be a 1st line winger one day" for JT "i will win you a championship as your 1C" Miller isnt a fair deal 1 for 1. While I agree, I’m arguing this from the Rags perspective / devil’s advocate. 1st overall generally should garner 3-4 years to develop in the NHL and prove their draft position, imho. to put it bluntly, we gave 6 years I think to Jake Virtanen. and when was the last time the Nux drafted 1st overall, had their pick of the best junior player in the world. In the last 50 years? Not once. that’s how valuable a 1st overall pick is to any franchise. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 39 minutes ago, Quint said: The difference is they now actually chase. Two forecheckers going after the puck, 1st one disrupts, knocks the puck loose and bangs at the opposition, 2nd one gets the puck. Under Green it was one forechecker and that is not really designed to get the puck in the offensive zone. Dumb really. As far as Miller goes, I keep thinking of Nieuwendyk for Iginla. Miller could get someone their championship, all we need is an Iginla coming the other way. agreed, they do it more, they just do it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 36 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: Yea but they actually chase now. The dump and send 1 guy in but keep the rest back to avoid an odd man rush plan wasnt working. they're just better at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, RWJC said: While I agree, I’m arguing this from the Rags perspective / devil’s advocate. 1st overall generally should garner 3-4 years to develop in the NHL and prove their draft position, imho. to put it bluntly, we gave 6 years I think to Jake Virtanen. and when was the last time the Nux drafted 1st overall, had their pick of the best junior player in the world. In the last 50 years? Not once. that’s how valuable a 1st overall pick is to any franchise. Yeah, I don't see the Rags giving up on Laffy either. They have a bigger problem with underperforming Kaakko, who will be a RFA at the end of the season. I can see some offer sheets incoming... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 38 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: I 100% think it's part of the game with JR. He has done more interviews in his time here then Benning did his entire tenure. He's a professional, he knows the waves he's creating. Refreshing to have management who will manipulate the media in their favour for once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zduck14 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I think Miller adds so much to whatever team he ends up with that a Lafreniere+ package actually makes sense for both sides. It reminds me of the Iginla/Nieuwendyk trade. The proven star player puts the contender over the top despite knowing that the kid they're trading away will be a star. I think it's a win/win for both sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 5 hours ago, eeeeergh said: Laffys stock has taken a bit of a hit imo. He's been getting 1st line minutes and teammates, but not 1st line results. Its no longer certain that he can be what he was projected to be at the draft. Compare his 1st and 2nd year to EP and QHs 1st and 2nd year to see the diff. Laffy as a "could potentially be a 1st line winger one day" for JT "i will win you a championship as your 1C" Miller isnt a fair deal 1 for 1. Is the Rangers checking if he is tradeable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, zduck14 said: I think Miller adds so much to whatever team he ends up with that a Lafreniere+ package actually makes sense for both sides. It reminds me of the Iginla/Nieuwendyk trade. The proven star player puts the contender over the top despite knowing that the kid they're trading away will be a star. I think it's a win/win for both sides. I think any deal for Miller has to bring back at least a young, top 4 dman, preferable potential top pairing. I think he's going to be a dominant player, but the Canucks need d prospects/young roster players. Edited March 1, 2022 by stawns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackdawg Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 56 minutes ago, zduck14 said: I think Miller adds so much to whatever team he ends up with that a Lafreniere+ package actually makes sense for both sides. It reminds me of the Iginla/Nieuwendyk trade. The proven star player puts the contender over the top despite knowing that the kid they're trading away will be a star. I think it's a win/win for both sides. Exactly ..!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 9 hours ago, higgyfan said: Yeah, I don't see the Rags giving up on Laffy either. They have a bigger problem with underperforming Kaakko, who will be a RFA at the end of the season. I can see some offer sheets incoming... I’m not convinced that Laff is going to be the player the Rangers feel like he could be. I guess they have to believe it because they chose him 1st OA. Miller is a needle mover for the Rangers if he’s traded there. We need a young player that would also move the needle for us. If that player isn’t coming back, then no deal. Sorry. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 6 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I’m not convinced that Laff is going to be the player the Rangers feel like he could be. I guess they have to believe it because they chose him 1st OA. Miller is a needle mover for the Rangers if he’s traded there. We need a young player that would also move the needle for us. If that player isn’t coming back, then no deal. Sorry. I can't think of a 1st overall draft pick being traded in his 2nd year after Jrs. So who on the Rangers moves the needle for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, higgyfan said: I can't think of a 1st overall draft pick being traded in his 2nd year after Jrs. So who on the Rangers moves the needle for you? -Eric lindros was traded after sitting out his first year. -Joe Murphy was traded after only 90 games with the wings. -Brian Berard was traded halfway through his 3rd season. -Jovonovski was traded after his 4th. -Sundin after his 4th -Wickenheiser after his 4th There are of course a bunch of players that the teams wished they had traded right away while they still had their "1st overall shine" but they were stubbornly held onto until they were worthless (Stephan,Daigle,Yakapov etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 17 hours ago, eeeeergh said: Laffys stock has taken a bit of a hit imo. He's been getting 1st line minutes and teammates, but not 1st line results. Its no longer certain that he can be what he was projected to be at the draft. Compare his 1st and 2nd year to EP and QHs 1st and 2nd year to see the diff. Laffy as a "could potentially be a 1st line winger one day" for JT "i will win you a championship as your 1C" Miller isnt a fair deal 1 for 1. He only moved up to top line a little over a month ago due to injury.. he plays significantly less 5v5 than his linemate and the tail end of pp2... rangers do most of their damage on the powerplay so not really surprising to see lafreniere lack of production when he doesn't get powerplay mins and only gotten it recently due to injuries. How many 1st overall picks turns out to be a bust? Last one probably yakupov. The rest all turned out good some great. You are comparing a player that was deployed as a 3rd/4th liner to learn the game and grow in his 1st year and again in the 2nd year until recent injury promoted him up the lineup to a player that played his entire 1st 2-3 years on the top line max pp time most offensive zone start? Apples to orange. He has an elite shot and needs to play with an elite playmaker like panarin not zib and kreider where they are a shoot first type of player. Too many shooters not enough pucks to go around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 46 minutes ago, coryberg said: -Eric lindros was traded after sitting out his first year. -Joe Murphy was traded after only 90 games with the wings. -Brian Berard was traded halfway through his 3rd season. -Jovonovski was traded after his 4th. -Sundin after his 4th -Wickenheiser after his 4th There are of course a bunch of players that the teams wished they had traded right away while they still had their "1st overall shine" but they were stubbornly held onto until they were worthless (Stephan,Daigle,Yakapov etc.) Lindros wouldn't play for Quebec. He gave them no choice. Jovo, Sundin + Wickenheiser after 4th year is plenty of time to assess a player, although trading Sundin was dumb. Stephan, Daigle + Yakapov were traded after 4yrs Murphy + Berard are the only 2 that were traded after 2 years. It is uncommon to give up on a 1st overall pick in such a short timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Lindros wouldn't play for Quebec. He gave them no choice. Jovo, Sundin + Wickenheiser after 4th year is plenty of time to assess a player, although trading Sundin was dumb. Stephan, Daigle + Yakapov were traded after 4yrs Murphy + Berard are the only 2 that were traded after 2 years. It is uncommon to give up on a 1st overall pick in such a short timeframe. Uncommon but it's happened. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 hours ago, higgyfan said: I can't think of a 1st overall draft pick being traded in his 2nd year after Jrs. So who on the Rangers moves the needle for you? Schneider for me hits all the marks - RHD, he’s young at 20 years old, and he’s already on the Ranger’s roster. He’s the kind of player the Canucks need. He’s got size at 6’2, and he plays naturally the right side of defense. He’d be the absolute ideal pairing for Quinn moving forward. Schneider would move the needle for us, Miller for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 18 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Schneider for me hits all the marks - RHD, he’s young at 20 years old, and he’s already on the Ranger’s roster. He’s the kind of player the Canucks need. He’s got size at 6’2, and he plays naturally the right side of defense. He’d be the absolute ideal pairing for Quinn moving forward. Schneider would move the needle for us, Miller for them. And Emma Watson moves my needle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 29 minutes ago, HKSR said: And Emma Watson moves my needle... hopefully its at least a crochet needle there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Schneider for me hits all the marks - RHD, he’s young at 20 years old, and he’s already on the Ranger’s roster. He’s the kind of player the Canucks need. He’s got size at 6’2, and he plays naturally the right side of defense. He’d be the absolute ideal pairing for Quinn moving forward. Schneider would move the needle for us, Miller for them. Schneider is projected to be a 2nd pairing defensive dman. He would likely do a great job alongside Quinn. I am thinking you would want more than Schneider for JT. Right? I'd like to see what you would add to this trade. Quinn's need for a shutdown dman as a partner has changed, now that he is solid on the d-side of his game. This opens up a broader range of possibilities in a partner for Quinn; a player that might not play is well as S on defence, but has more offensive upside. It would be great for the team to have another dman that could put up points; especially on the 2nd PP. Who knows...maybe that will become Rathbone's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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