[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Warhippy]

6 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

Huh. I thought he took a crazy small contract for the 1 year in Detroit. Obviously it’s been a while lol. 

His 1 year contract in Detroit was for $7.45 million in 2008 which was the 9th highest paid contract of that year.

[N4ZZY]

21 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Whatever happens, I think it happens during this offseason. From the Canucks perspective, his value will never be higher than it is right now in a trade, and we can't afford to let him walk to free agency. From Miller's perspective, he can't bank on having another season like the one he just had next season. If he wants to cash in, it's in his best interest to sign now, unless he really wants to leave. 

yeah, that's curious to me now that you've mentioned it. Like, what if he has a "down" year next season? Would he get less? Ideally he becomes a free agent this off-season, to cash in on his massive year. But what if, next season he goes from 99 points down to 70-75? 

 

I'm not sure he'll be getting the big payout he was looking for. 

 

[BPA]

26 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

yeah, that's curious to me now that you've mentioned it. Like, what if he has a "down" year next season? Would he get less? Ideally he becomes a free agent this off-season, to cash in on his massive year. But what if, next season he goes from 99 points down to 70-75? 

 

I'm not sure he'll be getting the big payout he was looking for. 

 

If Miller goes down to 70-ish pts next year then this season was the outlier.  His range would then be in the $7.5-8M AAV.

[Provost]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

If Miller goes down to 70-ish pts next year then this season was the outlier.  His range would then be in the $7.5-8M AAV.

That is if you assumed he would be equally productive for the entire term of his contract, which is a bad bet unless it was a 1-2 year term.

[BPA]

5 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is if you assumed he would be equally productive for the entire term of his contract, which is a bad bet unless it was a 1-2 year term.

Certainly wouldn’t be a good thing if Miller show eventual decline in the later years.  Much like the Sedins getting $7M while only getting 50+pts (or so).  Max 4yr deal.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, BPA said:

If Miller goes down to 70-ish pts next year then this season was the outlier.  His range would then be in the $7.5-8M AAV.

Might be more affordable to be able to retain right?

 

[73 Percent]

3 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Might be more affordable to be able to retain right?

 

 

5 hours ago, BPA said:

If Miller goes down to 70-ish pts next year then this season was the outlier.  His range would then be in the $7.5-8M AAV.

I was thinking the exact thing today.

[Gawdzukes]

18 hours ago, stawns said:

Personally, I'd just rather hang on to Myers for those two seasons than move him and then try to replace those mins, in that role.  He gets a bad rap, but he's a workhorse and guys like that are a lot harder to replace than many think.

Yeah I agree it could be more trouble than not. I just don't think it can get much worse. I personally just find big, immobile, d-men aggravating and very hard to plan safety nets around. They need some real puck movers on the other side and the same side to insulate them from getting targeted and taken advantage of. Or maybe it is a matter of coaching as has been alluded to. It's very hard to trust guys like that with the game on the line. Imo he's great as a second/third line/PK deterrent but he gets really stinky sometimes. I think I'd be a lot more fine with him if we had a player that actually moves the needle offensively on the RD to take the heat off Myers. You're in trouble when he's you're fastest, fittest, and quicker player on the right side.

 

I guess I'd personally rather have a Manson type than Myers. All I know is I'm getting pretty tired of him setting up the opposition for goals what seems like every game.

 

  

17 hours ago, Warhippy said:

If he re-signs anywhere he'll get 8-10 million just for being crosby.  What's insane is McJesus' next contract is due when he's barely turned 29 years old.  How much do you think he's gonna get?

 

Yeah I wasn't really arguing your actual point ... just shooting the sh!t lol. I can't even imagine but probably twice what Crosby is making now. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Provost]

8 hours ago, BPA said:

Certainly wouldn’t be a good thing if Miller show eventual decline in the later years.  Much like the Sedins getting $7M while only getting 50+pts (or so).  Max 4yr deal.

Or you just take the average age decline and reduce his salary in those years to reflect his expected production levels.

 

His camp will never go for it.

 

If you assume 70-80 points in the first two years of his contract. Then 50-60 when he is 33-35, then 30-40 when he is 36-37… that would put a fair AAV for a six year contract in the $6.0-6.5 million range.  If you believe he is really a 90-100 point guy for the next three years, and start the decline from there… then that moves up the contract only to the $7 million range AAV.

 

There is a reason older free agents get overpaid and have their contracts age badly… and it is short term, save a GMs job kind of thinking.

[granpappy]

18 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Signing what is/was still the richest contract in NHL history for his age is not helping the team.  It is also not exactly leaving much if any real money on the table.  $5 million over the length of the contract isn't scratch to be fair but it's also not leaving millions per year on the table.

 

At no point in leage history outside of really Selanne and Kariya in Colorado or Stamkos in Tampa has a player left literal millions on the table to take a massively friendly contract to help their team.

 

Miller will be a minimum low end $8.5 million as a starter and someone will suffer for it

if i remember correctly, without looking it up, bobby orr tore up his contract with the blackhawks when he could no longer play due to his injuries

[aGENT]

18 hours ago, stawns said:

Personally, I'd just rather hang on to Myers for those two seasons than move him and then try to replace those mins, in that role.  He gets a bad rap, but he's a workhorse and guys like that are a lot harder to replace than many think.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's not about Myers being a "bad" player, I agree he takes FAR too much flack in this market.

 

His problem is that he's simply an ill fit with the other pieces we have, doesn't fit particularly well with our two best D in Hughes/OEL (so not a good fit in our top 4) and is too expensive for hence playing on the third pair.

 

Not a bad player, just a poor fit.

 

This team needs more Marino, Lyubushkin and Manson types to complement the puck movers we have on the left. If management can figure out a way to swap Myers for guys like those, while also clearing some cap... Win, win.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

Or you just take the average age decline and reduce his salary in those years to reflect his expected production levels.

 

His camp will never go for it.

 

If you assume 70-80 points in the first two years of his contract. Then 50-60 when he is 33-35, then 30-40 when he is 36-37… that would put a fair AAV for a six year contract in the $6.0-6.5 million range.  If you believe he is really a 90-100 point guy for the next three years, and start the decline from there… then that moves up the contract only to the $7 million range AAV.

 

There is a reason older free agents get overpaid and have their contracts age badly… and it is short term, save a GMs job kind of thinking.

And if all the other teams see the same scenario you're pointing out, then they will only want Miller as a one year rental.  Which means our return is 1/2 of what it would have been a this past TDL, when JT was a two year rental.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's not about Myers being a "bad" player, I agree he takes FAR too much flack in this market.

 

His problem is that he's simply an ill fit with the other pieces we have, doesn't fit particularly well with our two best D in Hughes/OEL (so not a good fit in our top 4) and is too expensive for hence playing on the third pair.

 

Not a bad player, just a poor fit.

 

This team needs more Marino, Lyubushkin and Manson types to complement the puck movers we have on the left. If management can figure out a way to swap Myers for guys like those, while also clearing some cap... Win, win.

Myers is way overpaid for a guy who needs his partner to carry him if he's playing top four.  He should be about 4 million per.  If JR can dumperoo Myers' full contract and not take back money (like he did with Hamonic) that's a huge win for us.

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Myers is way overpaid for a guy who needs his partner to carry him if he's playing top four.  He should be about 4 million per.  If JR can dumperoo Myers' full contract and not take back money (like he did with Hamonic) that's a huge win for us.

After watching the play offs so far, who is going to do the heaviness on the back end, once Myers goes?

Not against trading Myers, but one thing has become brutally evident... Canucks would be murdered this year, and we need more, not less size and strength on the back end.

 

Think we are at a cross road...again... 

 

I personally wanted to get two heavy defensive D-men instead of Myers, but I'm just not sure we can afford that.

[Warhippy]

26 minutes ago, granpappy said:

if i remember correctly, without looking it up, bobby orr tore up his contract with the blackhawks when he could no longer play due to his injuries

Sigh before players were protected by the NHLPA

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

After watching the play offs so far, who is going to do the heaviness on the back end, once Myers goes?

Not against trading Myers, but one thing has become brutally evident... Canucks would be murdered this year, and we need more, not less size and strength on the back end.

 

Think we are at a cross road...again... 

 

I personally wanted to get two heavy defensive D-men instead of Myers, but I'm just not sure we can afford that.

We can aquire D to play the "heavy" game for a lot less on the cap than 4 million.  Myers is overpaid by two to three mil per.  He is the second fiddle on a top four pairing.  He is perfect as a bottom pair guy, but how much do they get paid?  Yes, Myers does a lot of heavy work but he doesn't do it particularly well (he's not mean or overly tough).

[HKSR]

5 minutes ago, spook007 said:

After watching the play offs so far, who is going to do the heaviness on the back end, once Myers goes?

Not against trading Myers, but one thing has become brutally evident... Canucks would be murdered this year, and we need more, not less size and strength on the back end.

 

Think we are at a cross road...again... 

 

I personally wanted to get two heavy defensive D-men instead of Myers, but I'm just not sure we can afford that.

I think we have 3 guys that can hold their own...

 

Myers

Schenn

OEL

 

To a lesser extent, I'd say Burroughs could as well.

 

Poolman isn't a small guy either... 6'2" 200lbs.

 

It really is guys like Hughes, Hunt, and Dermott that are more of an issue.  Honestly, I think management really didn't need to bring in Dermott.  He's been good, but as a LHD, we probably could have brought in a Zadorov or equivalent instead.

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We can aquire D to play the "heavy" game for a lot less on the cap than 4 million.  Myers is overpaid by two to three mil per.  He is the second fiddle on a top four pairing.  He is perfect as a bottom pair guy, but how much do they get paid?  Yes, Myers does a lot of heavy work but he doesn't do it particularly well (he's not mean or overly tough).

Bottom pair? 

Yes it would be cool, if you could play him on the third pair, but he is more than a 3rd pair player, just not for us...

He is way too offensive in his playing style, to be the defensive part of any pairing, and with OEL and Quinn is doesn't work.

 

When we acquired Myers, he was going for around 7M in all reports, and getting him for 6M was considered a good deal... As for not being mean or overly tough, last time we had playoffs games, he was the only one able to properly take the fight to the 'enemy'... and the amount of ridiculous penalties he got were testimony to that.

Again I am all for moving him, but I fear we end up with a softer back end, than we have now, and that is the last thing, we need, while wanting to introduce Rathbone to the top team...

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think we have 3 guys that can hold their own...

 

Myers

Schenn

OEL

 

To a lesser extent, I'd say Burroughs could as well.

 

Poolman isn't a small guy either... 6'2" 200lbs.

 

It really is guys like Hughes, Hunt, and Dermott that are more of an issue.  Honestly, I think management really didn't need to bring in Dermott.  He's been good, but as a LHD, we probably could have brought in a Zadorov or equivalent instead.

Yep but take Myers out of the line up, and we are soft looking. OEL is not a hard man, although I agree, he can stand up to the hard play. 

If we get rid of Myers, we need two RHD defensive tough D-men for the top 2 pairing... especially if we are trying to introduce Rathbone into the line up.

 

PS. I'd probably prefer Zadorov to Rahbone tbh, as I just want us to be able to compete without always worrying about us defensively...

[HKSR]

Just now, spook007 said:

Yep but take Myers out of the line up, and we are soft looking. OEL is not a hard man, although I agree, he can stand up to the hard play. 

If we get rid of Myers, we need two RHD defensive tough D-men for the top 2 pairing... especially if we are trying to introduce Rathbone into the line up.

 

PS. I'd probably prefer Zadorov to Rahbone tbh, as I just want us to be able to compete without always worrying about us defensively...

What I'd like to see is trade Myers, and sign Lyubushkin and Zadorov.

 

Hughes-Schenn (this pair works, just keep it going for another year or 2)

OEL-Lyubushkin (OEL can go on the offence with Lyubushkin playing D)

Zadorov-Burroughs (would be a pretty nasty pair to play against)

Dermott