[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[mll]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not really.  Tkatchuk is a better player, but Miller (being the far more mature person and better teammate) would be a better fit with the older core in Nashville.  

He's younger and should be worth his cap hit throughout his contract unlike Miller.

 

Nashville had more vets just a few season ago with Poile then admitting it was a mistake.  He was saying you don't get anything for being the oldest team in the league.  He talked of how they had lost their enthusiasm and needed to bring in more energy with youth.  It's why they changed course and shipped off Arvidsson, Ellis and Smith.

Hynes insists on two-way play and effort before anything else.  Not sure it would work well with how Miller sometimes gives up on plays.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

If he is not moved before the season starts his value weakens as the acquiring team doesn't get his play for the year. Why would Miller agree to a deal at that point by doing an extension to the acquiring team? At least at this point it is in Miller's interest to do an extension now to mitigate any injury or fall off in his play. This is why I want to move Miller now rather than later.  

It’s becoming more and more evident that Miller’s best value was as a two playoff rental back at the 2022 TDL.  But our owner didn’t want to trade him because we were in the playoff hunt.  Now we are going to get a lesser return.  And the longer this goes on (into the season) the less the return will be and the less likely our owner allows the trade anyway.  Things are actually lining up that sees Miller do the “Wee Johnny” and leave as a UFA.  

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

He's younger and should be worth his cap hit throughout his contract unlike Miller.

 

Nashville had more vets just a few season ago with Poile then admitting it was a mistake.  He was saying you don't get anything for being the oldest team in the league.  He talked of how they had lost their enthusiasm and needed to bring in more energy with youth.  It's why they changed course and shipped off Arvidsson, Ellis and Smith.

Hynes insists on two-way play and effort before anything else.  Not sure it would work well with how Miller sometimes gives up on plays.  

Tkachuk won’t put up those numbers again so no he won’t be worth his contract..

 

He’s getting overpaid 100%

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

He's younger and should be worth his cap hit throughout his contract unlike Miller.

 

Nashville had more vets just a few season ago with Poile then admitting it was a mistake.  He was saying you don't get anything for being the oldest team in the league.  He talked of how they had lost their enthusiasm and needed to bring in more energy with youth.  It's why they changed course and shipped off Arvidsson, Ellis and Smith.

Hynes insists on two-way play and effort before anything else.  Not sure it would work well with how Miller sometimes gives up on plays.  

Okay, “Ketchup” will definitely be a better fit on a team with a coach “Heinz”.  

[JM_]

3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Don't need advanced stats to tell us we were defensively porous - Demko was bailing out this club on a regular basis all season.  In the first half we lost a lot but Demko kept it respectable most nights,  in the 2nd half Demko absolutely stole games from superior teams.  

 

This is one of the main reasons why JR said the 2nd half record of the club was unsustainable - despite many believing that it was BB's system and he can simply coach the same way next season and we're guaranteed PO.  I’ve said it repeatedly only to be rebuffed by posters insisting we're a 1st place club based on our 2nd half last season - but if Demko is even 'average' next season,  we're in big trouble considering the defense is essentially the exact same personel. 

I think having the numbers helps the discussions a lot tho, particularly keeping the personal attacks side down or just snitty discussions over where the team is at. 

 

[Baratheon]

1 hour ago, Canuckster86 said:

Myers has his own thread, are we trying to run the page count up by doing all canucks talk in here!?

 

[mll]

15 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Tkachuk won’t put up those numbers again so no he won’t be worth his contract..

 

He’s getting overpaid 100%

Miller is also going to get overpaid with more years in his 30s.  

 

He probably won't get the same kind of opportunities on a team like Nashville or any other team who already has their own top players.  Forsberg is a 40 goal scorer but only averaged 18 minutes and not the 21 that Miller got in Vancouver.  Miller's production was also strongly derived from the PP where he was 3rd in the league behind McDavid/Draisaitl.  Not sure that's replicable.  

 

It's the same issue for both players (new team/role/opportunity will be different) but the better bet is generally on the younger one.  

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by mll

[MeanSeanBean]

27 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Seravalli’s a plug.

 

Miles apart on term? So basically if the Canucks go one more year they can get it done?

 

Miles apart on term means nothing. Canucks probably want 5, Miller and his camp probably want 7 or 8. You meet in the middle at 6.

 

Thats why I never listen to insiders. One minute they’re saying two sides are miles apart and then all of a sudden one phone call and a deals done.

But of the Canucks are offering 5 and JT wants 7 and both parties are entirely unwilling to waiver from that, then that's 2 years.  It could be the difference of JT being paid 8 or 9 million for those 2 years or 3 or 4 if his play declines like the average player when they are in their mid 30s and he has to sign elsewhere.

 

I'd consider 2 seasons and the potential of 8-10 million dollars miles apart. Not saying this is what's going down, just using your hypothetical situation.

[erkayloomeh]

5 minutes ago, mll said:

Miller is also going to get overpaid 

 

There all overpaid 

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

There all overpaid 

true, but I'd rather see Miller a bit overpaid than watch our best talent walk. There's a lesson happening for us in Calgary right now. Unless you're really into rebuilds. 

[Gawdzukes]

38 minutes ago, mll said:

Miller is also going to get overpaid with more years in his 30s.  

 

He probably won't get the same kind of opportunities on a team like Nashville or any other team who already has their own top players.  Forsberg is a 40 goal scorer but only averaged 18 minutes and not the 21 that Miller got in Vancouver.  Miller's production was also strongly derived from the PP where he was 3rd in the league behind McDavid/Draisaitl.  Not sure that's replicable.  

 

It's the same issue for both players (new team/role/opportunity will be different) but the better bet is generally on the younger one.  

 

All things being equal Tkachuk is probably the desired option logically but there's a multitude of things going on with each club involved that we're not privy too. Nashville could easily go for Miller after all is said and done based on many possible factors.

 

There is:

 

price to acquire

desired salary

length of salary

willingness to play or re-sign in Nashville

players demeanor

playing position

desired skillset

leadership qualities

powerplay/pk ability

availability

 

almost too many to name

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[NHL97OneTimer]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

VAN should trade Miller to CGY now, and then let CGY try to re-sign him and ultimately lose him for nothing 

 

for (RD) Rasmus Anderson, (C) Ilya Nikolayev and a 2nd (2023)

 

JT would not be happy in CGY, so don't fret. He would be frustrated there, him and Marky, angry af under Sutter. His production would drop, Treliving would be fired. C'mon could be fun.

Amusing for sure, but I think we all know Miller would take what Toffoli did to us and ramp it up a few notches.  You only send Calgary players you don't like also.  

[Bobby James]

Do we know if Canucks management is letting teams talk to Miller about an extension first before agreeing to a trade? 

[mll]

50 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

All things being equal Tkachuk is probably the desired option logically but there's a multitude of things going on with each club involved that we're not privy too. Nashville could easily go for Miller after all is said and done based on many possible factors.

 

There is:

 

price to acquire

desired salary

length of salary

willingness to play or re-sign in Nashville

players demeanor

playing position

desired skillset

leadership qualities

powerplay/pk ability

availability

 

almost too many to name

 

 

Tkachuk is still 24 and only turns 25 in December - it's a significant difference age wise where a team has him for all his best years.  Not sure Nashville has the assets to acquire him though vs what a team like NJD could offer.  

 

As much as NJD wants to keep Bratt, Tkachuk would bring the something different up front that Fitzgerald talks about.  Ideally they keep both but NJD would have to clear cap elsewhere.  They look to have more quality young assets to offer than Nashville.

 

Miller to Nashville would be a nice backup plan but not sure they would part with the necessary assets.  Can't really see Poile giving Miller the term he would be looking for either - he initially walked away from Niederreiter and Granlund over term.  Poile was also concerned about their team getting too old and always talks of father time being undefeated.  

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by mll

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

Seravalli says Miller and the Canucks are still miles apart on term.

Ferraro says, that if the Canucks have Miller playing unsigned into the season, the bargaining power shifts to the player.

Glass half full way of looking at it is that Miller seems to be willing to stay at least, which seems to prove that the people saying he would only play in US after his current contract was up were talking out of their ass. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Tkachuk is still 24 and only turns 25 in December - it's a significant difference age wise where a team has him for all his best years.  Not sure Nashville has the assets to acquire him though vs what a team like NJD could offer.  

 

As much as NJD wants to keep Bratt, Tkachuk would bring the something different up front that Fitzgerald talks about.  Ideally they keep both but NJD would have to clear cap elsewhere.  They look to have more quality young assets to offer than Nashville.

 

Miller to Nashville would be a nice backup plan but not sure they would part with the necessary assets.  Can't really see Poile giving Miller the term he would be looking for either - he initially walked away from Niederreiter and Granlund over term.

 

Yeah Thachuk could easily get swooped up by somebody else. Would be a good target for Jersey absolutely. Poile might just want a one year player too. I would have to think JT will be quite a bit cheaper as well. Who knows exactly what they want or what traits they are looking for. I'm sure a lot of that type of stuff is discussed behind closed doors and those discussions could lead anywhere.

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, mll said:

Tkachuk is still 24 and only turns 25 in December - it's a significant difference age wise where a team has him for all his best years.  Not sure Nashville has the assets to acquire him though vs what a team like NJD could offer.  

 

As much as NJD wants to keep Bratt, Tkachuk would bring the something different up front that Fitzgerald talks about.  Ideally they keep both but NJD would have to clear cap elsewhere.  They look to have more quality young assets to offer than Nashville.

 

Miller to Nashville would be a nice backup plan but not sure they would part with the necessary assets.  Can't really see Poile giving Miller the term he would be looking for either - he initially walked away from Niederreiter and Granlund over term.  Poile was also concerned about their team getting too old and always talks of father time being undefeated.  

 

 

I bet NJ could get it all done with picks and prospects, no roster players back other than maybe Tatar. 

[NorthWestNuck]

41 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

Do we know if Canucks management is letting teams talk to Miller about an extension first before agreeing to a trade? 

Freidman has said the team has allowed other teams to talk to Miller’s agent. PA/JR have said no other team have done so yet, but they are also playing their cards close to their chest so who knows. 

[Comeback_Kings]

I'd rather have Miller than Tkachuk.  Miller is the more versatile, better overall player, a centre.  The age difference doesn't move the meter for me.  Just can't picture Tkachuk a Canuck, might be the whole chewing on the mouth guard thing, can't stand watching it.    

   
 

[48MPHSlapShot]

7 minutes ago, NorthWestNuck said:

Freidman has said the team has allowed other teams to talk to Miller’s agent. PA/JR have said no other team have done so yet, but they are also playing their cards close to their chest so who knows. 

Seems odd that the Isles haven't talked to Miller's agent, considering how the deal at the draft blew up. I guess Lou Lamoriello is still butthurt about it or they just aren't interested any more.