[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Gurn]

42 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Hey, how many faceoffs did Pettersson lose last night? Maybe that had something to do with being -5 last night?

27% in the faceoff circle lol. He cant win draws. 

Hey, did you ever see me say E.P. was good at face offs?

[AnthonyG]

23 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Hey, did you ever see me say E.P. was good at face offs?

Whats the point of having a C that cant win draws though? 

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Whats the point of having a C that cant win draws though? 

I guess we can just put him on Bo's other wing and let our one  true  top center babysit Petey AND Miller?

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

Whats the point of having a C that cant win draws though? 

There's a lot more to playing C than just winning face offs. In fact statistically, winning draws doesn't vastly move the needle in regards to team performance.

 

That said, improving his faceoffs is one facet of his game that he could certainly stand to improve.

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

There's a lot more to playing C than just winning face offs. In fact statistically, winning draws doesn't vastly move the needle in regards to team performance.

 

That said, improving his faceoffs is one facet of his game that he could certainly stand to improve.

I’m quite aware there is more to that than just winning draws. But if you are losing draws 73% of the time. You are chasing the puck and playing D. Which kinda goes to back up my point of how bloody important faceoffs. Petey was 27% in the faceoff circle and was a -5

Dries, Horvat and Lazar were all above 70% they were all even.

Faceoffs go very much hand in hand with what happens on the ice. If Petey isnt going to win draws and they are serious about wanting to make playoffs, they need to shift him back to wing. Let Miller take faceoffs and Petey can practice faceoffs all season and next off-season. 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Whats the point of having a C that cant win draws though? 

So here is an interesting stat worth the Canucks investing more time in development wise.

 

Niks Aman  ,  in his first 23 games in the NHL is at 40% in FO’s .

(65 / 162) .

 

Yes that is the bottom line, but it’s not always against the opponents 4th line .

 

regardless , I hope to see Aman get better opportunities throughout this teams lineup.

He is. Turning out to be an exceptional player.

 

Perhaps the team takes some incentive from his game ,  and his position to support him at his position to enhance his FO prowess.

 

I enjoy watching him play.

[86Viking]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Hey, how many faceoffs did Pettersson lose last night? Maybe that had something to do with being -5 last night?

27% in the faceoff circle lol. He cant win draws. 

It is not a popular opinion of mine but I think he should be moved to wing. He is bad at faceoffs and getting pushed off the puck last night while trying to apply his reverse hit on a player like Eller goes to show how his lack of size is an issue when it comes to playing C imo

[HKSR]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Whats the point of having a C that cant win draws though? 

 

4 minutes ago, Neutral said:

It is not a popular opinion of mine but I think he should be moved to wing. He is bad at faceoffs and getting pushed off the puck last night while trying to apply his reverse hit on a player like Eller goes to show how his lack of size is an issue when it comes to playing C imo

All of these guys have FO% under 45% over their careers. 

 

Evgeni Malkin

Elias Pettersson

Jack Hughes

Matthew Barzal

Tage Thompson

Evgeni Kuznetsov

Jack Eichel

 

And to get my point across... guys under 46%?

 

Nathan Mackinnon

 

Petey is fine as our #1C. 

 

[HOFsedins]

14 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

All of these guys have FO% under 45% over their careers. 

 

Evgeni Malkin

Elias Pettersson

Jack Hughes

Matthew Barzal

Tage Thompson

Evgeni Kuznetsov

Jack Eichel

 

And to get my point across... guys under 46%?

 

Nathan Mackinnon

 

Petey is fine as our #1C. 

 

Its funny how some people think being good at C means you have to be great at faceoffs or you should be playing W. Wonder if they even understand what Centremen in hockey do besides taking faceoffs.

Edited November 30, 2022 by HOFsedins

[Alflives]

23 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

All of these guys have FO% under 45% over their careers. 

 

Evgeni Malkin

Elias Pettersson

Jack Hughes

Matthew Barzal

Tage Thompson

Evgeni Kuznetsov

Jack Eichel

 

And to get my point across... guys under 46%?

 

Nathan Mackinnon

 

Petey is fine as our #1C. 

 

Very true.  But we do need a right shot, defensively minded, high FO% winning center.  Much like what Gillis did when bringing in Manny Malholtra.  That's what we need to get in the next year or two to round out our strength down the middle.  

[wai_lai416]

4 hours ago, Eastsidenuck said:

I mean I’m not going to comment on how certain guys are going to age..I’m also not going to pretend like I was in support of giving him this contract but with the cap surely going up in the next 2-3 years, you can easily navigate around that cap hit..but it becomes a lot more difficult with the other money already allocated to guys lower in the lineup. Again, at this stage, I think the notion that they should bottom out is irrelevant because they’re too good for that but I think they can and should take a step back to move forward and the most immediate piece of business is to collect a bunch of assets for the expiring contracts. I just think 1.5 years worth of disciplined hoarding of assets will allow this club to explode. Again I just don’t believe in this mindset of “it’ll take 5-6 years to rebuild” or whatever. They have the building blocks but certainly need more.

1.5 years of hoarding asset selling? I’m sure EP will take his qualifying or JR will trade him before he can take the QO and run. There’s no chance EP will sign long term as oppose to taking the QO to leave if we are selling this season and the next. So no I don’t think we will compete anytime soon once the teams leading goal scorer is traded for asset and EP not willing to sign long term. How often do you see a player about to hit ufa status re-sign long term with a rebuilding team? 

[Eastsidenuck]

45 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

1.5 years of hoarding asset selling? I’m sure EP will take his qualifying or JR will trade him before he can take the QO and run. There’s no chance EP will sign long term as oppose to taking the QO to leave if we are selling this season and the next. So no I don’t think we will compete anytime soon once the teams leading goal scorer is traded for asset and EP not willing to sign long term. How often do you see a player about to hit ufa status re-sign long term with a rebuilding team? 

I would disagree with that if we’re talking about selling expiring assets. It’s not like you have to convince petey to stay through a total tear down. You still have miller/Hughes/demko signed long term. Plenty of guys sign with teams in the same sort of spot as this team is especially when he will quite clearly be stepping into more of a leadership role. 

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, Neutral said:

It is not a popular opinion of mine but I think he should be moved to wing. He is bad at faceoffs and getting pushed off the puck last night while trying to apply his reverse hit on a player like Eller goes to show how his lack of size is an issue when it comes to playing C imo

i agree I think he would be fantastic off the wing right now.
 

But I think he’s a C long term and needs to learn the nuances of the position. and to do that he needs to play the positions. There will be some bumps along the road.

 

but he will learn and improve steadily. 
 

He’s also going to continue getting stronger, heavier and will improve at Faceoffs.
 

Also when he played with Miller, he’d line up on the wing but would slot back into the C for the C responsibilities after draws 

 

hes defensively too good and his IQ is that of a C 

Edited November 30, 2022 by R3aL

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Very true.  But we do need a right shot, defensively minded, high FO% winning center.  Much like what Gillis did when bringing in Manny Malholtra.  That's what we need to get in the next year or two to round out our strength down the middle.  

Correct... we need a true 3rd line centre that can take on the defensive assignments.  Surprisingly, it's not easy to get a high end 3C.

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Very true.  But we do need a right shot, defensively minded, high FO% winning center.  Much like what Gillis did when bringing in Manny Malholtra.  That's what we need to get in the next year or two to round out our strength down the middle.  

I agree with this I did have a feeling they were looking at Pagaeu on the isles 

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

 

All of these guys have FO% under 45% over their careers. 

 

Evgeni Malkin

Elias Pettersson

Jack Hughes

Matthew Barzal

Tage Thompson

Evgeni Kuznetsov

Jack Eichel

 

And to get my point across... guys under 46%?

 

Nathan Mackinnon

 

Petey is fine as our #1C. 

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

I’m quite aware there is more to that than just winning draws. But if you are losing draws 73% of the time. You are chasing the puck and playing D. Which kinda goes to back up my point of how bloody important faceoffs. Petey was 27% in the faceoff circle and was a -5

Dries, Horvat and Lazar were all above 70% they were all even.

Faceoffs go very much hand in hand with what happens on the ice. If Petey isnt going to win draws and they are serious about wanting to make playoffs, they need to shift him back to wing. Let Miller take faceoffs and Petey can practice faceoffs all season and next off-season. 

We've played 23 games, he's taken 260 faceoffs. That averages to 11.3 per game. He's sitting at a 41.5% average win %. That's 4.7 won draws per game.

 

At a REALLY good for the NHL, 55%, he'd be winning 6.2 draws. That's a difference of 1.5 draws per game. And again, that's elite faceoff guys.

 

Hardly seems like worth all the fuss.

 

 

[wai_lai416]

12 minutes ago, Eastsidenuck said:

I would disagree with that if we’re talking about selling expiring assets. It’s not like you have to convince petey to stay through a total tear down. You still have miller/Hughes/demko signed long term. Plenty of guys sign with teams in the same sort of spot as this team is especially when he will quite clearly be stepping into more of a leadership role. 

ya good luck trying to sell him a future when every year you are saying we'll be a playoff team and we are a laughing stock of the league every single season.. after you get rid of Bo.. we have 1 center.. EP.. who's not even really good at faceoff.. Miller? ya he can play center if you want the other team to blow you out on the scoreboard. anyone that thinks this team's future is bright even after they sell of horvat i think needs to come back to reality.. this team is weak at center already with just EP and Bo.. behind is dries.. will be even weaker with just EP.. the defence is like swiss cheese.. and demko may or may not even recover his form.

[86Viking]

20 minutes ago, R3aL said:

i agree I think he would be fantastic off the wing right now.
 

But I think he’s a C long term and needs to learn the nuances of the position. and to do that he needs to play the positions. There will be some bumps along the road.

 

but he will learn and improve steadily. 
 

He’s also going to continue getting stronger, heavier and will improve at Faceoffs.
 

Also when he played with Miller, he’d line up on the wing but would slot back into the C for the C responsibilities after draws 

 

hes defensively too good and his IQ is that of a C 

Exactly, removing him from faceoffs and shifting him back to C most of the time after the puck drops is what I believe would work fine, or he goes out and makes it a priority to get better at faceoffs...

 

But then I get told I know nothing about the position etc by CDC, can never have your own opinion without getting backlash from posting your own thoughts...sad world that we live in when everything gets picked apart by others all the damn time. That is why this is my one and only source of what I call social media, I barely tolerate it because of my love for hockey and the Canucks I have zero time for all forms of social media that is full of trash

[Eastsidenuck]

6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

ya good luck trying to sell him a future when every year you are saying we'll be a playoff team and we are a laughing stock of the league every single season.. after you get rid of Bo.. we have 1 center.. EP.. who's not even really good at faceoff.. Miller? ya he can play center if you want the other team to blow you out on the scoreboard. anyone that thinks this team's future is bright even after they sell of horvat i think needs to come back to reality.. this team is weak at center already with just EP and Bo.. behind is dries.. will be even weaker with just EP.. the defence is like swiss cheese.. and demko may or may not even recover his form.

Okay..go ahead and completely misinterpret what I said all you want. It’s a matter of opinion that I believe in this core (demko, petey, Hughes, and would even include Podkolzin/Hoglander and kuzmenko). I never said half of what you implied but again I believe in the core, not necessarily the management group to get it done. Blue line clearly needs to be reworked. I don’t think it’s a complete tear down that’s needed which is all I said.