[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, rekker said:

Kuz still has to finish the season, and even if he does, he doesn't have the history to demand a Panarin type deal. So you trade Bo for assets? What gaurantee is there that a legit, young, top four D is in the deal. Probably magic beans and a possible good prospect. Getting rid of Bo will be the biggest mistake this franchise makes since Neely. Book it. 

so what history did panarin have when he got his deal after his 2 year elc? 1 extra year? their stats atm are almost identical assuming he keeps up his season.. i never said get rid of bo? so i don't even know wth you are talking about.. i've been on the sign bo get rid of miller train all summer... but at this point i'm all for trading everyone and start over. JR f up the horvat signing over the summer with his lowball offer. Horvat is probably just playing his hardest to get his max pay day to gtfo this franchise that's constantly spinning in mud. 

[rekker]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

so what history did panarin have when he got his deal after his 2 year elc? 1 extra year? their stats atm are almost identical assuming he keeps up his season.. i never said get rid of bo? so i don't even know wth you are talking about.. i've been on the sign bo get rid of miller train all summer... but at this point i'm all for trading everyone and start over. JR f up the horvat signing over the summer with his lowball offer. Horvat is probably just playing his hardest to get his max pay day to gtfo this franchise that's constantly spinning in mud. 

You can compare Kuz to Panarin all you want, but Kuz can also end up being a Hoffman. A quarter of the season has passed, he has some good chemistry on his line, but this still needs to play out so if I was in charge, I wouldn't wage weather or not to pay Bo on what Kuz may or may not get. Barring a tear down and rebuild, I say you keep Bo, EP and JT. JT looks to be the linemate Bo has been lacking, that's why I say keep all three. I doubt selling Bo at the deadline will get the club what it needs to plug the holes anyways. 

[LTC123]

8 Million Dollar Question:

 

If go like, 15-5-2 and find ourselves 2nd or 3rd in our division by the TD, Bo has to go, right?  That's what management has said....they will get value back for UFA's.   Who in the world do we get back from a trade that would replace Bo?  Nobody!     Bo for picks and prospects?  We'd lose the PO race with no one to replace him at center.    Who's going to cover his 80 points?....not from a playoff team!  ...they'll keep their 80 point player for the PO's.

 

 

 

 

[combover]

Back in the playoff race horvats not going anywhere 

unless he walks in the summer .
piddly playoff revenue more import than the future to Francesco,  it always has been. 
 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by combover

[5nothincanucksohno]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I agree that the team should never have signed Miller. I remember fans debating and talking about Miller and the good in signing him. I get it. They like him. But I personally didn't think he was the right choice for this team at the stage that we were at. Rutherford even said about getting younger - well, we're not stupid fans here in this city - how does signing a guy well into his late 30's signal Rutherford's desire to "get younger" - he's basically done everything the opposite of what he said he wanted to do. That doesn't strike me as someone who has a plan. And what's their plan anyways? Have they stated what their goals are this season? What about the next 1-2 years (a short term plan? What about their 5 year plan)? etc etc. 

 

We need to move out Myers, Pearson, Garland, and maybe wait on Brock (hate to say it, I love the guy). Resign Bo, Kuzmenko, and sign free agents to bolster the roster. 

 

One thing that did surprise me was that the Canucks are in the bottom six in terms of age - they are already one of the youngest teams in the league. I had no idea.

 

I agree, at this point it does seem hard to see/understand what the plan is but I am willing to give them time. If they aren't going to blow it up, and need to fit in guys like Bo/Kuz, then you have to think Boeser, Pearson and Myers have to go to free up the cap space needed for pay raises and balancing out the lineup

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

One thing that did surprise me was that the Canucks are in the bottom six in terms of age - they are already one of the youngest teams in the league. I had no idea.

 

I agree, at this point it does seem hard to see/understand what the plan is but I am willing to give them time. If they aren't going to blow it up, and need to fit in guys like Bo/Kuz, then you have to think Boeser, Pearson and Myers have to go to free up the cap space needed for pay raises and balancing out the lineup

The problem is Benning, in his “day to day” planning, didn’t realize that the contracts he foolishly gave to Myers and Pearson were one year too long.  So we will lose Bo and Kuz in 2023 bcause we cant rid ourselves of Myers and Pearson until 2024.  Thanks 

Benning!  

[wai_lai416]

8 hours ago, rekker said:

You can compare Kuz to Panarin all you want, but Kuz can also end up being a Hoffman. A quarter of the season has passed, he has some good chemistry on his line, but this still needs to play out so if I was in charge, I wouldn't wage weather or not to pay Bo on what Kuz may or may not get. Barring a tear down and rebuild, I say you keep Bo, EP and JT. JT looks to be the linemate Bo has been lacking, that's why I say keep all three. I doubt selling Bo at the deadline will get the club what it needs to plug the holes anyways. 

If Jr wants to re-sign bo he’s be negotiating. He’s not he’s literally letting it play out and each game that passes Horvat increase his value. So what’s JR planning? Bo to go on a cold streak for 1/4 1/3 of the season so he can re sign him for less? Jr pretty much have no plans on re signing bo at this point by the looks of it

[mordekai]

9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

If Jr wants to re-sign bo he’s be negotiating. He’s not he’s literally letting it play out and each game that passes Horvat increase his value. So what’s JR planning? Bo to go on a cold streak for 1/4 1/3 of the season so he can re sign him for less? Jr pretty much have no plans on re signing bo at this point by the looks of it

Landeskog wasn’t signed til July. So I would say plenty of time to sign him. Signing him now wouldn’t be prudent. Having career year base on the start. JR should wait til at least mid season to see how Bo does. Who is to say Canucks didn’t offer something like 7x$7.5 and Bo’s agent declined due to Bo torrid start to the year.

[wai_lai416]

3 minutes ago, mordekai said:

Landeskog wasn’t signed til July. So I would say plenty of time to sign him. Signing him now wouldn’t be prudent. Having career year base on the start. JR should wait til at least mid season to see how Bo does. Who is to say Canucks didn’t offer something like 7x$7.5 and Bo’s agent declined due to Bo torrid start to the year.

Lol it’s not like bo have only been hot for 20 games.. he’s literally been on hot since last half of last season till now.. let’s be serious.. you really think the Canucks made an offer while the team were sitting at the bottom of the standing almost the entire season till now? Landeskog is a different situation.. the guy is playing on a cup contender.. bo is playing on a lottery contender.. there was no concerns of landeskog being moved at the TDL. But ya it’s no big deal to leave bo unsigned till July like landeskog coz we can trade his right for a 3rd round pick if he doesn’t sign?

[mordekai]

25 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol it’s not like bo have only been hot for 20 games.. he’s literally been on hot since last half of last season till now.. let’s be serious.. you really think the Canucks made an offer while the team were sitting at the bottom of the standing almost the entire season till now? Landeskog is a different situation.. the guy is playing on a cup contender.. bo is playing on a lottery contender.. there was no concerns of landeskog being moved at the TDL. But ya it’s no big deal to leave bo unsigned till July like landeskog coz we can trade his right for a 3rd round pick if he doesn’t sign?

Pretty sure Canucks made an offer Bo refused. You think JR n co is just sitting there? Nobody had a sniff JT or brock was going to get signed and they did. I wouldn’t make any assumptions that Bo isn’t offered anything or won’t be signed by the Canucks. But you do you. 

[Alflives]

41 minutes ago, mordekai said:

Landeskog wasn’t signed til July. So I would say plenty of time to sign him. Signing him now wouldn’t be prudent. Having career year base on the start. JR should wait til at least mid season to see how Bo does. Who is to say Canucks didn’t offer something like 7x$7.5 and Bo’s agent declined due to Bo torrid start to the year.

Avs were a Cup favourite so they will hold onto their best players and be buyers at the TDLs.  They kept Kadri too, and he walked.  We aren’t in the same cycle right now and can’t afford to lose valuable assets for nothing.  We have until the 2023 TDL to sign or trade Bo.  

[R3aL]

On 11/27/2022 at 5:21 PM, N4ZZY said:

Yep. I wouldn’t mind seeing Garland traded. He’s on a good deal, but I don’t see him as part of this core moving forward (or the new core). If he’s traded, I hope that gives the team room to sign Bo. 

 

This management team is very strange. They seem to have adopted the No Plan Plan. Just like under Benning and Weisbrod. 

 

I’m frustrated as hell. 

 

I don’t think that’s the case they’ve been very clear about what they want to do and fell short in accomplishing it all. They can’t really improve our d without moving OEL / MYERS and replacing their minutes.

 

Boeser was a forced play.

 

and if you look at all of there moves they’ve been pretty solid / aligned with their messaging. The only head scratcher has been Stillman. But they wanted to clear some cap to get Bear but losing the second is only thing that’s gone against their messaging.

 

Kuzmenko and Mikehyev were a slam dunk so far. 
 

Mikehyev with Petey long term should have us all excited. And his contract is very fair considering he was a UFA signing and has a pretty unique player profile. Not a lot of guys with speed size and defensive awareness like him. His offensive game is not elite but it’s not horrendous and he thinks the game at a higher level to the point he can play very well with Petey. Very excited about him and to watch him continue to grow with Petey.

 

Kuzmenko is looking like a complete steal. He’s making great adjustments and will continue to get better I think.

 

the reconstructed fourth line has been stellar when healthy and together.

 

Aman found money.

Dakota Joshua great pro scouting evaluation and a great fit.

Lazar same thing and signed what looked like a little bit of a discount deal. 
 

Bolstered our RHD Pool with Johansnen who’s our best d prospect out of no where.

 

Studnika was a good gamble on a position of need and we will see how he looks when he settles in and has an extended look while healthy but I thought he started to look better as he played more.

 

overall they’ve done a decent job in one year without ruining our team too.

 

toud have to think their biggest targets to trade are:

 

Pearson

Myers

Garland

Boeser

 

and pearson and Myers will be easier to move next  offseason 

[mordekai]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Avs were a Cup favourite so they will hold onto their best players and be buyers at the TDLs.  They kept Kadri too, and he walked.  We aren’t in the same cycle right now and can’t afford to lose valuable assets for nothing.  We have until the 2023 TDL to sign or trade Bo.  

That’s my feeling as well. bo will either be dealt by tdl or signed. But I don’t think is a foregone conclusion that he isn’t going to be signed by the canucks 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Keeping Bo has to be a team priority if he wants to stay. Right now our team looks like a playoff team so if we keep this up and stay in a playoff race, I'm sure Bo will be happy to stay. Management have to prove to him that they're serious about winning.

 

That being said, he's going to command 7-8M easily, and Kuzmenko is going to ask for 6M at least. We simply don't have that cap space.

 

Right now we're spoilt with offensive riches so are going to have to decide who to get rid of to keep who. We can't have Boeser, a point per game player, on our 3rd line - it just doesn't work balance-wise. And that's ignoring the fact that we have ignored our defence, even up front we're going to have to make some decisions.

 

Miller at 8M, Petey at 7M, Mikheyev at 5M, Kuzmenko at 6M, Brock at 6.5M, Bo at 8M, Garland at 5M, that's all too much. 

 

My preferred option would be to trade Myers for a pick if we can manage that, free up 6M, then replace him with a Garland-for-defenceman trade where we'd probably save around 1-2M in cap space. We're still way over though. Realistically we may have to trade Brock as well to keep Kuzmenko - that's a difficult decision, but we may get a 1st round pick out of him at this rate. I think shifting Miller will be too hard.

 

Which team is better:

1) Keeping Bo, Miller, Petey, Kuzmenko. Losing Garland, Myers and Brock. Gaining a top-4 defenceman, 2nd and 1st.

2) Keeping Petey, Miller, Brock, Garland, Myers. Losing Bo and Kuzmenko. Gaining some riches from a Horvat trade and maybe Kuzmenko if he doesn't walk (probably a 1st, top player and prospect for Bo, maybe a 1st for Kuzmenko)

 

We can't have it all. I'd much prefer option 1. It's a lot of work from management though either way.

[wai_lai416]

28 minutes ago, mordekai said:

Pretty sure Canucks made an offer Bo refused. You think JR n co is just sitting there? Nobody had a sniff JT or brock was going to get signed and they did. I wouldn’t make any assumptions that Bo isn’t offered anything or won’t be signed by the Canucks. But you do you. 

yes actually I do think jr is just sitting there and do nothing and hoping bo continues so he can trade him for a massive return. Jr started his contract offers with rnh you really think he’s going to go up almost 3mil to 8? Which is what it’ll take to sign Horvat at this point? On a team that’s not even in a playoff position? They going to do their annual win few lose couple win few and miss the playoff by couple points like always. 

[mordekai]

34 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

yes actually I do think jr is just sitting there and do nothing and hoping bo continues so he can trade him for a massive return. Jr started his contract offers with rnh you really think he’s going to go up almost 3mil to 8? Which is what it’ll take to sign Horvat at this point? On a team that’s not even in a playoff position? They going to do their annual win few lose couple win few and miss the playoff by couple points like always. 

So is not possible to trade jt to devils for a player like Tatar and picks or trade brock/garland/kuzmenko

got it! 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, R3aL said:

I don’t think that’s the case they’ve been very clear about what they want to do and fell short in accomplishing it all. They can’t really improve our d without moving OEL / MYERS and replacing their minutes.

 

Boeser was a forced play.

 

and if you look at all of there moves they’ve been pretty solid / aligned with their messaging. The only head scratcher has been Stillman. But they wanted to clear some cap to get Bear but losing the second is only thing that’s gone against their messaging.

 

Kuzmenko and Mikehyev were a slam dunk so far. 
 

Mikehyev with Petey long term should have us all excited. And his contract is very fair considering he was a UFA signing and has a pretty unique player profile. Not a lot of guys with speed size and defensive awareness like him. His offensive game is not elite but it’s not horrendous and he thinks the game at a higher level to the point he can play very well with Petey. Very excited about him and to watch him continue to grow with Petey.

 

Kuzmenko is looking like a complete steal. He’s making great adjustments and will continue to get better I think.

 

the reconstructed fourth line has been stellar when healthy and together.

 

Aman found money.

Dakota Joshua great pro scouting evaluation and a great fit.

Lazar same thing and signed what looked like a little bit of a discount deal. 
 

Bolstered our RHD Pool with Johansnen who’s our best d prospect out of no where.

 

Studnika was a good gamble on a position of need and we will see how he looks when he settles in and has an extended look while healthy but I thought he started to look better as he played more.

 

overall they’ve done a decent job in one year without ruining our team too.

 

toud have to think their biggest targets to trade are:

 

Pearson

Myers

Garland

Boeser

 

and pearson and Myers will be easier to move next  offseason 

Yeah, I guess, if you've broken it down that way. 

 

I can't see Kuzmenko staying with the team unless management makes moves, and even then the primary target is Bo. 

 

This team has a gaping hole at centre without him, and don't tell me Miller is going to play there in the middle, because he sucks there. 

 

[N4ZZY]

41 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Management have to prove to him that they're serious about winning.

I mean, they signed Mikeyev and Kuzmenko, bolstered their bottom six with Lazar, Aman signings. I'm not sure what more they can do with cap so tight, to prove to Bo that they're serious about winning. All of their off-season moves indicate win now mode. 

 

What else do they need to do to prove to Bo that they're serious about winning?

 

[N4ZZY]

43 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Petey at 7M,

Sorry? He's not taking 7M. LOL 

 

He's taking at least 8-9M, probably the first Canuck to be in double digits in terms of being paid. He's getting paid more than Miller, and JT's making 8M for the next 7 years after this season. 

 

Petey's making at least 8M, and without any debate, probably more. I can easily see 9-9.5M for him, over the max number of years (8). 

 

[N4ZZY]

46 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Keeping Bo has to be a team priority if he wants to stay. Right now our team looks like a playoff team so if we keep this up and stay in a playoff race, I'm sure Bo will be happy to stay. Management have to prove to him that they're serious about winning.

 

That being said, he's going to command 7-8M easily, and Kuzmenko is going to ask for 6M at least. We simply don't have that cap space.

 

Right now we're spoilt with offensive riches so are going to have to decide who to get rid of to keep who. We can't have Boeser, a point per game player, on our 3rd line - it just doesn't work balance-wise. And that's ignoring the fact that we have ignored our defence, even up front we're going to have to make some decisions.

 

Miller at 8M, Petey at 7M, Mikheyev at 5M, Kuzmenko at 6M, Brock at 6.5M, Bo at 8M, Garland at 5M, that's all too much. 

 

My preferred option would be to trade Myers for a pick if we can manage that, free up 6M, then replace him with a Garland-for-defenceman trade where we'd probably save around 1-2M in cap space. We're still way over though. Realistically we may have to trade Brock as well to keep Kuzmenko - that's a difficult decision, but we may get a 1st round pick out of him at this rate. I think shifting Miller will be too hard.

 

Which team is better:

1) Keeping Bo, Miller, Petey, Kuzmenko. Losing Garland, Myers and Brock. Gaining a top-4 defenceman, 2nd and 1st.

2) Keeping Petey, Miller, Brock, Garland, Myers. Losing Bo and Kuzmenko. Gaining some riches from a Horvat trade and maybe Kuzmenko if he doesn't walk (probably a 1st, top player and prospect for Bo, maybe a 1st for Kuzmenko)

 

We can't have it all. I'd much prefer option 1. It's a lot of work from management though either way.

Option 1 obviously better.