[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[N4ZZY]

22 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Yes I agree that that Garland is one i would consider moving

I think the management is frustrated too (as other teams are strapped too)

I think it speaks more for the market though

Just like if your asset was a house you bought 2 years ago, sellers had bidding wars and sold fast and for more

Now you don't want to give your asset away unless it is for a fair return

for that reason i am ok waiting to the tdl or off-season if that is what it takes for value

Garland makes the most sense to move out to be honest. almost at 5M, that's a decent cap hit. 

 

I get it that we're not the only team that is tight with the cap, lots of other teams are also tight too, which is why there isn't a lot of movement right now. But if Bo's going to sign, I think the team has to create space to be able to do that, because they don't have space right now. If they wait until the off-season, then they risk losing Bo for absolutely nothing if he decides to sign elsewhere. 

 

I get the sense that the Canucks are gaining traction and turning a corner possibly. But they'll need to play like they did against the Avs, Vegas and Sharks for another (at least to me) 5-6 games, before I can consider them turning a corner in their game. 

 

[N4ZZY]

2 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Good player but this year is likely an anomaly and we can't expect this type of production in non contract years.

I mean that's always the risk right. But to be fair management took that risk with Miller, a player who isn't young, and will be entering into his 30's starting next season or the season beyond. How is that contract going to age at 8M for the next 7 years? If they're going all in, they need to be going all in with Bo as well as Miller. Trade one, and you trade the other, and build with Petey, Hughes, and Demko as your new core moving forward. 

 

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I mean that's always the risk right. But to be fair management took that risk with Miller, a player who isn't young, and will be entering into his 30's starting next season or the season beyond. How is that contract going to age at 8M for the next 7 years? If they're going all in, they need to be going all in with Bo as well as Miller. Trade one, and you trade the other, and build with Petey, Hughes, and Demko as your new core moving forward. 

 

Bo next contract will be in the $8M x 7-8yr range.  I can’t see it being less than Miller.

[5nothincanucksohno]

8 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I mean that's always the risk right. But to be fair management took that risk with Miller, a player who isn't young, and will be entering into his 30's starting next season or the season beyond. How is that contract going to age at 8M for the next 7 years? If they're going all in, they need to be going all in with Bo as well as Miller. Trade one, and you trade the other, and build with Petey, Hughes, and Demko as your new core moving forward. 

 

Agreed, if you trade Bo then you try and move on from Miller as well. In my opinion they should have never signed Miller (like him as a player just fine but feel a trade made more sense). With that being said, I believe his contract is buyout friendly the last two seasons.

 

I would rather resign Kuz, add some more young pieces, and invest in one or two solid #3 d men (especially one with size that could play up with Hughes).

 

 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Agreed, if you trade Bo then you try and move on from Miller as well. In my opinion they should have never signed Miller (like him as a player just fine but feel a trade made more sense). With that being said, I believe his contract is buyout friendly the last two seasons.

 

I would rather resign Kuz, add some more young pieces, and invest in one or two solid #3 d men (especially one with size that could play up with Hughes).

 

 

 

 

I agree that the team should never have signed Miller. I remember fans debating and talking about Miller and the good in signing him. I get it. They like him. But I personally didn't think he was the right choice for this team at the stage that we were at. Rutherford even said about getting younger - well, we're not stupid fans here in this city - how does signing a guy well into his late 30's signal Rutherford's desire to "get younger" - he's basically done everything the opposite of what he said he wanted to do. That doesn't strike me as someone who has a plan. And what's their plan anyways? Have they stated what their goals are this season? What about the next 1-2 years (a short term plan? What about their 5 year plan)? etc etc. 

 

We need to move out Myers, Pearson, Garland, and maybe wait on Brock (hate to say it, I love the guy). Resign Bo, Kuzmenko, and sign free agents to bolster the roster. 

 

[N4ZZY]

17 minutes ago, BPA said:

Bo next contract will be in the $8M x 7-8yr range.  I can’t see it being less than Miller.

Your probably right. He's either getting the same as Miller, or he's traded. I can't see him settling for less. 

 

But what does that do to their cap management and their ability to surround him with good players to win and compete? 

 

 

[rekker]

13 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Your probably right. He's either getting the same as Miller, or he's traded. I can't see him settling for less. 

 

But what does that do to their cap management and their ability to surround him with good players to win and compete? 

 

 

JT at 8, Bo at 8, EP at 9? I think it's doable moving forward with the cap going up?

[Petey Castiglione]

As everyone has stated, we've got to trim the fat somehow.  Boeser, Garland, Pearson and Myers is over 20m right there.  I believe Garland and Boeser have some value while retaining on Myers and Pearson makes them serviceable and we'll only be eating cap for 1 season.  Kuz, Miller and Bo's raises will eat about 11-13m of that which gives us room to fill out the roster and maybe upgrade the defense.  

 

I have a feeling Kuz will sign at a bit of a discount.  You can tell he fits in well with the group, is well liked and I doubt he wants to shake things up as he's really just getting settled here. They most likely bridge him at 2/3 years and that gives him time to cash in down the road.

 

With the team starting to gel, Bo must be leaning towards staying.  You don't throw hard work in the can and move your young family away from what's been his home for almost a decade.  Management will have to create the space for Bo and Kuz.

 

I mentioned before that I feel like managements plan all along was to sign both Miller and Bo.  Will they be able to pull it off with them both looking at a big raise, Bear as an RFA and Petey's raise looming?  We will see.

 

 

[wai_lai416]

14 minutes ago, rekker said:

JT at 8, Bo at 8, EP at 9? I think it's doable moving forward with the cap going up?

lol if EP continues his rate he's not going to settle for 9.. especially after the cap hits 90mil.. you are going to be easily looking at 10+.. 

[BPA]

If Bo gets $8, then we have a top line of…

 

Miller ($8M), Bo ($8M), Hogz ($1-2M type player).  Keep Miller and Bo duo.  Rotate winger to keep cap down if needed.  Someone that is fast and can battle for pucks.  So that line would be about $17-18M.

 

EP gets $7.3M x 2yr.  Let’s say he re-signs for $10M.  Mik gets $4.75M x 4yr.  And let’s hope Kuz signs for $7M.  So that line is about $19-22M.  If Kuz goes elsewhere, I’d try Podz in that slot.  It would keep costs down for that line.  And I believe EP and Mik creates chances, so Podz just needs to bury his shots.

 

Need cap savings elsewhere to keep our 2 top lines together.

[rekker]

20 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol if EP continues his rate he's not going to settle for 9.. especially after the cap hits 90mil.. you are going to be easily looking at 10+.. 

Ok. But even if that is the scenario. JT at 8, Bo at 8, EP at 10. Why not? You have center depth and options. You have a pairing in Bo and JT that is money. You have Mikayev to play with EP at reasonable cap and maybe Kuz at 5 or 6 per. If the cap does go up to 90, this should be doable. 

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, rekker said:

Ok. But even if that is the scenario. JT at 8, Bo at 8, EP at 10. Why not? You have center depth and options. You have a pairing in Bo and JT that is money. You have Mikayev to play with EP at reasonable cap and maybe Kuz at 5 or 6 per. If the cap does go up to 90, this should be doable. 

if kuz finish with 70-75 points you are dreaming he will sign for 5 or 6.. panarin signed for 6mil for 2 years after his elc.. 6mil then is like a 8-8.5mil today kuz will be easily looking at 7+ on a short 1-2 years which the canucks most likely won't be able to afford before he goes for the home run... it puts you right back into cap hell with 0 wiggle run.. even if u move boeser and his 6.75mil.. we have nothing and nothing worth while at all to get a RHD thru the trade market other than 1st rounders and the ufa market is pretty bare.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, rekker said:

Ok. But even if that is the scenario. JT at 8, Bo at 8, EP at 10. Why not? You have center depth and options. You have a pairing in Bo and JT that is money. You have Mikayev to play with EP at reasonable cap and maybe Kuz at 5 or 6 per. If the cap does go up to 90, this should be doable. 

True, but only EP is young and going to continue to get better.  Miller and Bo will start to drop off in their play, and we will have 16 mil tied up in them.  We would need to build the supporting group fast and then only have a couple (3-4) years to compete.  So if it takes us 2 years to build a good supporting group (especially fixing up the D) that only leaves 2 years for us to compete before Miller (for sure) and Bo (very likely) start to fall off in their play and are no longer contribute like Key core pieces.  So we would need to find two key core pieces to replace them, because they would be contributing more like supporting players.  

[BabychStache]

I wonder if Florida is a dance partner for Garland or Boeser. 
 

Take Hornqvist and his expiring $5.3M  back. 
 

 

[Alflives]

Just now, wai_lai416 said:

if kuz finish with 70-75 points you are dreaming he will sign for 5 or 6.. panarin signed for 6mil for 2 years after his elc.. 6mil then is like a 8-8.5mil today kuz will be easily looking at 7+ on a short 1-2 years which the canucks most likely won't be able to afford before he goes for the home run... it puts you right back into cap hell with 0 wiggle run.. even if u move boeser and his 6.75mil.. we have nothing and nothing worth while at all to get a RHD thru the trade market other than 1st rounders and the ufa market is pretty bare.

Might be smart (if Kuz is heading to such a big payday) for move him at the coming TDL and get picks and a young D man back.  The team acquiring him then would have the rest of the season and a big upper hand to negotiate his next contract.  That could carry significant value for us.  If we wait until June and can only trade his rights, we will definitely get way less in return. 

[Alflives]

Just now, BabychStache said:

I wonder if Florida is a dance partner for Garland or Boeser. 
 

Take Hornqvist and his expiring $5.3M  back. 
 

 

That would be perfect for Garland.  Not too sure if FLA will do that for Brock?

[J-Dizzle]

5 minutes ago, BabychStache said:

I wonder if Florida is a dance partner for Garland or Boeser. 
 

Take Hornqvist and his expiring $5.3M  back. 
 

 

I had been wondering the same but about Meyers…

 

edit: I should clarify… taking Hornqvist and maybe snagging Montour. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by J-Dizzle

[rekker]

21 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

if kuz finish with 70-75 points you are dreaming he will sign for 5 or 6.. panarin signed for 6mil for 2 years after his elc.. 6mil then is like a 8-8.5mil today kuz will be easily looking at 7+ on a short 1-2 years which the canucks most likely won't be able to afford before he goes for the home run... it puts you right back into cap hell with 0 wiggle run.. even if u move boeser and his 6.75mil.. we have nothing and nothing worth while at all to get a RHD thru the trade market other than 1st rounders and the ufa market is pretty bare.

Kuz still has to finish the season, and even if he does, he doesn't have the history to demand a Panarin type deal. So you trade Bo for assets? What gaurantee is there that a legit, young, top four D is in the deal. Probably magic beans and a possible good prospect. Getting rid of Bo will be the biggest mistake this franchise makes since Neely. Book it. 

[rekker]

24 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True, but only EP is young and going to continue to get better.  Miller and Bo will start to drop off in their play, and we will have 16 mil tied up in them.  We would need to build the supporting group fast and then only have a couple (3-4) years to compete.  So if it takes us 2 years to build a good supporting group (especially fixing up the D) that only leaves 2 years for us to compete before Miller (for sure) and Bo (very likely) start to fall off in their play and are no longer contribute like Key core pieces.  So we would need to find two key core pieces to replace them, because they would be contributing more like supporting players.  

If your saying go full rebuild, I am ok with that. But the D doesn't need superstars, it needs legit, stay at home. Dmen with Hughes, and OEL. Find those, a top six with Bo, JT, EP, Mikayev, Kuz. I think we can compete.

[86Viking]

Canucks need to keep Bo if we can get him signed at 8m or less. JT got 8m after a 99pt season, is Bo going to get 99pts this year...I doubt it but should we be paying him more than 8m just for his 40-50g season he has this year...I don't think so.

 

Canucks need to move out 2 forwards, Pearson for sure and Garland seems to be the other one. Try to take minimal cap back and also try to move Myers even with some retention, say 2m... That would clear 12m roughly in cap space moving the above 3, be hard to not take any salary back though but who knows...

 

With that 12m:

 

2.5m goes to Horvat and his raise from 5.5 to 8m

5m to Kuzmenko of say a 4yr 24m deal

 

Leaving 4.5m to add a D man via trade or FA.

 

Maybe Pearson to Calgary?

 

Who takes on Garland without sending much if any cap back tho??

 

Myers to Ottawa for a pick we retain up to 2m