[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Sophomore Jinx]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Might be better off, for our future, to move on from Bo.  6.0 is the most we should go.  Look at what RNH took on his big retirement contract!  Is Bo (honestly) worth more than RNH?  

Trade Bo.  Bye bye Bo.  See ya Bo.  

BH: Awe shucks Alf, have a good one, can I get you anything on the way out?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

BH: Awe shucks Alf, have a good one, can I get you anything on the way out?

Love the Boster.  But we need to build a Cup team.  If he will not accept 48 million the trade his arse for a right shot D. 

[canuck73_3]

Who left Alf’s scotch drawer unlocked again?

[EddieVedder]

37 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Might be better off, for our future, to move on from Bo.  6.0 is the most we should go.  Look at what RNH took on his big retirement contract!  Is Bo (honestly) worth more than RNH?  

Trade Bo.  Bye bye Bo.  See ya Bo.  

Bo deserves 7.5

Especially when you consider what the useless in comparioson boeser got.

[Sophomore Jinx]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Love the Boster.  But we need to build a Cup team.  If he will not accept 48 million the trade his arse for a right shot D. 

Yup, I share those sentiments exactly. It's really not that complicated.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

if they offered him 5 max is 5.9 5.9x8 is 47.2 so no he's not making over 6 and well below every single comparables and no RNH is not a comparable

What are you talking about?

 

Who said 5 max? That is likely a starting point in negotiations. No one actually expects the number to start with a 5.,.
 

They likely offer him around 50-55 mil over 8 years. That’s only a little less than Miller got. Perfectly fair.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by DeNiro

[canuck73_3]

9 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Bo deserves 7.5

Especially when you consider what the useless in comparioson boeser got.

[AngryElf]

I take everything the media says with a grain of salt right now. Locker room issues, Miller contract being “far away,” Boeser contract being “far away,” etc. Media knows nothing, and we’ll see on a random long weekend that Bo’s either getting dealt or re-signed. 

[LegionOfDoom]

6 hours ago, AngryElf said:

I take everything the media says with a grain of salt right now. Locker room issues, Miller contract being “far away,” Boeser contract being “far away,” etc. Media knows nothing, and we’ll see on a random long weekend that Bo’s either getting dealt or re-signed. 

The one I don’t understand is how people actually listen to drance… has that guy been right about anything since he started covering the Canucks? He throws terrible click bait as he rants off about fake issues he creates 

[DrJockitch]

Captain an actual 30g scorer, centre, steps up game in playoffs and sent out for every important face off. 
People think negotiation should start at 5?  That is crazy.

Trading Bo puts us further behind than trading JT would have. 

[IBatch]

22 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Captain an actual 30g scorer, centre, steps up game in playoffs and sent out for every important face off. 
People think negotiation should start at 5?  That is crazy.

Trading Bo puts us further behind than trading JT would have. 

I actually agree with this.   Feel that with better wingers Horvat would produce more ...like he did with Bear and Brock.  Being stuck with LE (and Pearson but that works so no slight on Pearson), Horvat likely is in the 30/30 range plus year after year.    And we won't see a regression that impacts the team as much given likely he can maintain a second line role for 6 years, and he'd be a perfect 3rd line C later on (his game is better suited for a bottom six role then Millers is).    Hard to say for sure though ... it really comes down to what contract he signs with us.   I'm better 6.5-.675 x 8.  But not surprised if it's 7 x 8 either. 

 

Hayes got 49 and Couture got 64.   He's closer to Hayes...expect it to be over 50 million total money.   Hope he takes a discount like Miller did.   Even 250k.   Every little bit counts.    We win if it starts with a 6. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by IBatch

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

I actually agree with this.   Feel that with better wingers Horvat would produce more ...like he did with Bear and Brock.  Being stuck with LE (and Pearson but that works so no slight on Pearson), Horvat likely is in the 30/30 range plus year after year.    And we won't see a regression that impacts the team as much given likely he can maintain a second line role for 6 years, and he'd be a perfect 3rd line C later on (his game is better suited for a bottom six role then Millers is).    Hard to say for sure though ... it really comes down to what contract he signs with us.   I'm better 6.5-.675 x 8.  But not surprised if it's 7 x 8 either. 

 

Hayes got 49 and Couture got 64.   He's closer to Hayes...expect it to be over 50 million total money.   Hope he takes a discount like Miller did.   Even 250k.   Every little bit counts.    We win if it starts with a 6. 

Landeskog took 7 mil x 8 years.  Bo takes that contract and his total dollars are the same as Miller.

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Can't disagree with anything you wrote.  And to be sure, I want Bo on this team.  I like Bo on this team.  His contributions are important and he's a Canuck-type player (community, stand-up guy, etc).  Bo's not a terrible captain either.  I'm not suggesting Miller gets more points and he should therefore be the captain......why I'd prefer Miller as captain is because I want him talking to the refs and the team with some raw emotion vs Bo's "it's all good" demeanour.  No right or wrong here, just a preference.  Regardless, Miller will do what Miller will do and that may look like him as captain while Bo sits back with the C at times.  A bit strange but if it's leadership by committee, it's all good (as Bo may say?!!!).

 

The Big Bad Bruins.   Now their is a team with a ton of leadership.   In fact two of those guys, who weren't the Captain, we're named in Sportsnet book, top 25 leaders in hockey.    Both in the top ten all-time.    Orr was one, Esposito the other.   In the Summit series,  that team didn't have an official captain.  Just four alternates.   But it became very clear, after the loss in Vancouver and the fans booing them, who was the unofficial captain of the team, and even more so as the series went on.   Espo was.

 

There have been other teams with other players.  Larry Robinson for example.   Cournoyer was that dynasty's captains.  That team was deep in leaders just like talent.   Same with the NYI dynasty, Potvin was one of the best leaders all-time, the guys even called him Dad ... but they also had the Sutters, Trottier and Tonelli - all of which would have made a good choice.  

 

Personally I like what OEL had to say soon after he arrived "this team is full of leaders".    Miller might be the better choice for sure.   It's nice that when a player has a letter on his chest it's more then just that.    Bruce publicly called him "the leader of this team", and that's likely true.   What he did for the team ... 27 points in 13 games, 60 points the second half .. was special. 

 

Edit: Since we are lamenting some of the teams choices.   I absolutely agree the top scorer shouldn't automatically get the C.   Naslund to me anyways, was a poor choice.   Jovo would have been the better one.   The Messier smell wasn't on him.   

Edited September 20, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Landeskog took 7 mil x 8 years.  Bo takes that contract and his total dollars are the same as Miller.

That is correct.   But remember, Miller already earned for a couple more years ... and for sure was outproducing it.   

 

Not saying i agree with it,  Hayes i hoped would be an outlier.   Landeskog will be 31 years old and 3 years into his deal ... don't forget that, and pays 12% less taxes.   The same deal here is worth more like 7.8.    Man did Miller ever take a discount once that's factored in.   Hope the rest of the team follows suit (Horvat and EP). 

 

 Hayes ... 7.14  That's a lot of money to spend on a second line C who doesn't crack the top fifty centers.    Horvat does.    Pure fantasy value (which includes things like hits, plus minus etc), he's 40ish.   A few spots ahead of RNH and Hertl (playing on SJ hurts just value), just below Wheeler.    Some teams have two centers ahead of him, ours included, we are the only team with 3 ( Bruce is correct and ranks him in the top 25-30 range)...

 

Read an article predicting Horvats next deal.  ...Hayes as the low bar and Couture as the high bar.   That's scary as f!ck.   To me he's in the Brayden Schenn range as far as production goes.   Horvat for sure will get a 7 year max deal on the open market.    One thing the league doesn't have much of us cap space ... so that would limit some of the market for sure.   He could do what Klingberg did possibly, or Hall did.   Sign a one year deal and hope for more later.    I don't think he's a good cap hit for us at over 7.     Cap would need to go up awfully fast.   That said it's not terrible either given the comps.   

 

The top 33 paid centers in the league all make 7 plus.   I like Schenn as a comp ... he's making 6.5, 34th most.   UFAs always get more money.   Horvat's last deal was fair.    We got some value during his RFA years, albiet not a ton,  but some.    Feel the team doesn't owe him anything that way.    6.5-7 is the right range. 

[Locke Lamora]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Captain an actual 30g scorer, centre, steps up game in playoffs and sent out for every important face off. 
People think negotiation should start at 5?  That is crazy.

Trading Bo puts us further behind than trading JT would have. 

He’s easily a 35 goal scorer, and leads the team in goals,  if he doesn’t break his leg at the end of last season. Dude was on a goal scoring heater. Add in his elite face off prowess and the potential of his defensive game having more upside….and the amount of disrespect he gets from some on this forum is rather amazing. Already there are sound bites from other players (JT included) who have mentioned how vital Bo is to this team.

 

5 million? Not even going to waste time finding out who put forth that garbage. 

 

Max 8 year deal for a 50 million total sounds about right to me.

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Simply a starting point like with any negotiations.

 

If it’s an 8 year offer, 5.9 million AAV is 47 million. That’s not exactly chump change. It’s only 9 mil less than Miller got.

 

I think the real number they have in mind is 6.5 mil. That’s 52 million or 4 million less than Miller. That’s more than fair for both sides.

Yep.   That would be considered a fair deal.    And for sure isn't chump change.  Give him a full NMC the first six years and a MNTC with a ten team list the last two years and consider it a day.    Thing about Miller and EP is they can also both play the wing, and EP is more of a part-time center so far.    To me it's our team strength.    It's not a great market for trading now.   Only way we'd get that elusive RHD is if we are willing to take cap back.    NYR id stay away, they seem to only like to fleece other teams (Fox, Zib, Lundqvist lol).... 

 

This teams achilles heel is our d-core.   It's not terrible either.   It's probably better then PIT back to back cups was.   Team takes a risk if we don't sign Horvat prior to the season...Horvat also takes a risk if he gets injured.    But not much of one.  Unless it's a career ending one, someone out there will sign him 7 x 7.   We can afford to pay him a little more over time ... Anything that starts with a six would be just fine.   Don't like that Elliotte Friedman said it should start with a 7.   Sure on the open market.   But not once you add that extra year, and very unlikely would he be worth 6.5 his 8th season.   We definitely should be trying to keep the cap hit down using that extra year, and clauses.   Horvats line allows the rest of the lines to do what it does.  

[BPA]

So back to…

 

$6.5-7M x 8yrs??

 

Get it done and let’s go!!!!

[wai_lai416]

30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   That would be considered a fair deal.    And for sure isn't chump change.  Give him a full NMC the first six years and a MNTC with a ten team list the last two years and consider it a day.    Thing about Miller and EP is they can also both play the wing, and EP is more of a part-time center so far.    To me it's our team strength.    It's not a great market for trading now.   Only way we'd get that elusive RHD is if we are willing to take cap back.    NYR id stay away, they seem to only like to fleece other teams (Fox, Zib, Lundqvist lol).... 

 

This teams achilles heel is our d-core.   It's not terrible either.   It's probably better then PIT back to back cups was.   Team takes a risk if we don't sign Horvat prior to the season...Horvat also takes a risk if he gets injured.    But not much of one.  Unless it's a career ending one, someone out there will sign him 7 x 7.   We can afford to pay him a little more over time ... Anything that starts with a six would be just fine.   Don't like that Elliotte Friedman said it should start with a 7.   Sure on the open market.   But not once you add that extra year, and very unlikely would he be worth 6.5 his 8th season.   We definitely should be trying to keep the cap hit down using that extra year, and clauses.   Horvats line allows the rest of the lines to do what it does.  

you guys think too much about the extra year.. that extra year honestly doesn't mean anything if it's like 500k-1mil off in terms of aav. factoring in taxes and everything.. and depending on whether its 500k or 1mil the difference in aav for 7 vs 8 years.. he'll make more in 7 years if it's 750k-1mil difference before tax and if it's 500k difference.. its like 3mil difference but more like 1.8mil or less after taxes with the possibility of the team dumping you off to a rebuilding team to rid your cap hit. 

 

honestly i think if bo hits the open market.. he'll more than likely have a bidding war and end up with 7.5x7.. if ppl claim miller will be in his prime till 33+ then ppl are signing bo for 6 prime years.. not that bad of a investment getting 6 of 7 prime years with the cap either going up 1mil per year or more depending on the tv deal.. if he re-signs with the canucks i think i'll be exactly 7mil which honestly i think is fair considered PA was willing to give Mihkeyev 4 years at 4.75 for 1 outlier season and 3 invisible playoff series

[aGENT]

$53m÷8=$6.625AAV. Just saying.

[TheRussianRocket1994]

3 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

The one I don’t understand is how people actually listen to drance… has that guy been right about anything since he started covering the Canucks? He throws terrible click bait as he rants off about fake issues he creates 

This!! He is horrible constantly wrong, ignorant and negative! Plus, Sekeres is no better. Then, there’s the questions the media ask sometimes…my god!