Quinn Hughes is turning into a Star

[IBatch]

On 12/25/2021 at 5:05 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

People whine all the time on here when anyone suggests Makar is better than Hughes. Like it couldn’t possibly true lol. People also still whine that Hughes should have won the Calder (which was awarded to the right person imo). 

Giving the opinion that people are butthurt about something is typed a hundred times a day on this forum. If I had said Makar supporters are butthurt that Hughes is better than Makar no one would have batted an eye at it. Most would upvote it tbh. So it’s not about saying people are butthurt, which is a general comment anyway. It’s about saying people ON A CERTAIN SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT are butthurt. 
 

Funny how I can’t call people butthurt in general (not aimed at a specific person) about a hockey related thing on a hockey forum but you can personally insult my reading comprehension without getting the gears for it. 
 

Interesting. 

You seem butthurt though.   That's the irony.    Nobody is making as much noise as you are, about making a comp.   Who the heck cares, they have Makar, we have QHs... oh and NY has Fox and TB has  Hedman.   And on and on.   Pretty sure we all know Makar has had a better career so far.   No need to bring it up...or is that the lube because personably i don't read butthurt on here 300 times a day, and don't really see it much at all.   Nobody is butthurt over QHs not winning the Calder, any reasonable hockey person can understand why, same as Brock Boeser (also pretty sure we are super happy to have three finalists in a row, and proud of each of them, why the heck wouldn't we be?, it's nothing like Perry winning the Hart over Daniel)...   It's the covert invalidation that folks ears get hot over, why be on a Canuck forum and take so much interest in pointing out that a COL player is better then our young star?   Sorry to call you out - notice a few other posters really enjoy stuff like making the odds when it's so obvious we don't have a chance then bag facing anyone who gets prickly about it.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Of course 

 

I was being sarcastic..

 

"There is Bobby Orr and then there is the rest of us"

Denis Potvin 

Same thing as Gretzky "He's scoring 200 points while the rest of us are scoring 100"  ... Hawerchuk etc. 

[Elias Pettersson]

21 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Orr was a force at 18 when he came to the NHL. I have never seen his equal. Not even close. 

Gretzky also came into the league at 18.  He was the best player in the NHL by the time he was 19 and won 8 Hart trophies in a row.  Gretzky also has no equal.

 

Ovechkin can break his all time goal scoring record, but at the end of the day Gretzky was never actually known as a pure goal scorer.  He never had Ovechkin's shot.  The fact that Gretzky still holds all of the major goal scoring records 21 years after his retirement is quite amazing really.  The NHL literally had to change some of its rules just because of Gretzky.  Gretzky is also the only player in NHL history where his goals and assists needed to be split up in hockey pools just to make it fair.  Even after doing that if you only took Gretzky's assists you would have won the hockey pool most of the time anyways.  

 

Gretzky's 894 goals will probably be broken by Ovechkin.  But his 1963 assists and 2857 points will never be touched in our lifetimes unless they really change the rules of the game.

[Putgolzin]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky also came into the league at 18.  He was the best player in the NHL by the time he was 19 and won 8 Hart trophies in a row.  Gretzky also has no equal.

 

Ovechkin can break his all time goal scoring record, but at the end of the day Gretzky was never actually known as a pure goal scorer.  He never had Ovechkin's shot.  The fact that Gretzky still holds all of the major goal scoring records 21 years after his retirement is quite amazing really.  The NHL literally had to change some of its rules just because of Gretzky.  Gretzky is also the only player in NHL history where his goals and assists needed to be split up in hockey pools just to make it fair.  Even after doing that if you only took Gretzky's assists you would have won the hockey pool most of the time anyways.  

 

Gretzky's 894 goals will probably be broken by Ovechkin.  But his 1963 assists and 2857 points will never be touched in our lifetimes unless they really change the rules of the game.

Even as a big-time Gretzky fanboy I’m excited to cheer for Ovechkin to beat his goal scoring.

i also love the point you made that Gretzky’s goal scoring record was like “oh, yeah he’s pretty good at the goal scoring part of the game too, certainly not his greatest attribute, but still probably the best of all time”.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Putgolzin said:

Even as a big-time Gretzky fanboy I’m excited to cheer for Ovechkin to beat his goal scoring.

i also love the point you made that Gretzky’s goal scoring record was like “oh, yeah he’s pretty good at the goal scoring part of the game too, certainly not his greatest attribute, but still probably the best of all time”.

Will there be another player who is so much better than the rest that for hockey pools we divide his assists and goals, so he’s basically two different players?  

Oh, and Hughes is a phenom.

[Putgolzin]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Will there be another player who is so much better than the rest that for hockey pools we divide his assists and goals, so he’s basically two different players?  

Oh, and Hughes is a phenom.

Yes - good point on Hughes.

i was just reading an article talking about potential RHD target options and got to thinking about Hughes.

There was chatter that he created about playing the right side a couple of years back, but we all know how adverse Green was to play D-men on their offhand.

I wonder if there would be more appetite for that with Boudreau, and if we couldn’t bolster our blue line by finding a (presumably more easily found) top four LHD

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky also came into the league at 18.  He was the best player in the NHL by the time he was 19 and won 8 Hart trophies in a row.  Gretzky also has no equal.

 

Ovechkin can break his all time goal scoring record, but at the end of the day Gretzky was never actually known as a pure goal scorer.  He never had Ovechkin's shot.  The fact that Gretzky still holds all of the major goal scoring records 21 years after his retirement is quite amazing really.  The NHL literally had to change some of its rules just because of Gretzky.  Gretzky is also the only player in NHL history where his goals and assists needed to be split up in hockey pools just to make it fair.  Even after doing that if you only took Gretzky's assists you would have won the hockey pool most of the time anyways.  

 

Gretzky's 894 goals will probably be broken by Ovechkin.  But his 1963 assists and 2857 points will never be touched in our lifetimes unless they really change the rules of the game.

5 x 5 record is probably safe for a long time unless  Ovi signs another deal and wants keep going and is like Howe ... SHG ... safe. 
 

Edit:  Have an old VHS ... Gretzky's 50 greatest goals.   So many different ways he did it... his fake shot was his bread and butter, and like the best goal scorers all-time he could pick corners.   But there were so many different goals scored in that tape.   My personal favourite was a snap shot off a face off to tie a game.   Through all the bodies who lined up to defend late in third, top far corner, was a seeing eye thread the needle, miraculous goal.   Gretzky made hyperbole understated.   His gaudy stats are there for a reason, Bossy one of the best goal scorers all-time, couldn't keep up with Wayne's first ten years.   People forget he had shoulder and back injuries and there was a time he was close retirement shortly after becoming a King.     If he did, his stats would be even more gaudy.   Even if he only played 5 years he'd have made the HHOF.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by IBatch

[Putgolzin]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Gretzky made hyperbole understated. 

“Hyperbole is a million times better than exaggeration”

Steve Carrell

“ “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” - Wayne Gretzky”

Michael Scott

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Putgolzin

[NewbieCanuckFan]

We simply don't know what Hughes ceiling is.

 

If he can improve like he did this season under Travis Green, who know how good he can be under a REAL NHL coach.  

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky also came into the league at 18.  He was the best player in the NHL by the time he was 19 and won 8 Hart trophies in a row.  Gretzky also has no equal.

 

Ovechkin can break his all time goal scoring record, but at the end of the day Gretzky was never actually known as a pure goal scorer.  He never had Ovechkin's shot.  The fact that Gretzky still holds all of the major goal scoring records 21 years after his retirement is quite amazing really.  The NHL literally had to change some of its rules just because of Gretzky.  Gretzky is also the only player in NHL history where his goals and assists needed to be split up in hockey pools just to make it fair.  Even after doing that if you only took Gretzky's assists you would have won the hockey pool most of the time anyways.  

 

Gretzky's 894 goals will probably be broken by Ovechkin.  But his 1963 assists and 2857 points will never be touched in our lifetimes unless they really change the rules of the game.

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it's important to look at the league scoring in different eras.    

Gretzky played during the highest scoring era in NHL history.  

https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html 

 

Not saying that I'm 100% in favour of adjusting stats this way, but a lot of people have done it and the only person ahead of Ovechkin right now is Gordie Howe when you tally up his totals across the NHL and WHA, across 30 seasons.  

 

To me, Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, and Gretzky is the greatest forward in NHL history.  I do have a lot of time for Mario Lemieux as well. 

 

[*Buzzsaw*]

I personally do not think Ovechkin breaks Gretzky's goal record.

 

Howe/Orr/Gretz/Lemieux/Sid were special... they were head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Mario could have been the best ever if he wasn't so incredibly unlucky with injuries and diseases... imagine Ovechkin getting Cancer at the peak of his career?  Mario had the best physical attributes of any of the Superstars...  6'4" 235, with wheels, hands and incredible IQ.  And how about Sid with his concussions downsizing his career stats?

 

Ovechkin is lucky to have been incredibly durable and also on high scoring teams.  His record for winning is nowhere near the other Superstars.  I'd rank him below Bossy... who by the way also had a really short career which cut short his stats... he has the 2nd best goals per game of anyone.

 

Howe won the Art Ross 6 times, six Harts, top ten in NHL scoring 21 years in a row. He led the NHL in goal scoring four times. He led the NHL in Playoff points six times.  Won the Cup four times... plus a bunch of WHL championships.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by *Buzzsaw*

[N4ZZY]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:16 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky also came into the league at 18.  He was the best player in the NHL by the time he was 19 and won 8 Hart trophies in a row.  Gretzky also has no equal.

 

Ovechkin can break his all time goal scoring record, but at the end of the day Gretzky was never actually known as a pure goal scorer.  He never had Ovechkin's shot.  The fact that Gretzky still holds all of the major goal scoring records 21 years after his retirement is quite amazing really.  The NHL literally had to change some of its rules just because of Gretzky.  Gretzky is also the only player in NHL history where his goals and assists needed to be split up in hockey pools just to make it fair.  Even after doing that if you only took Gretzky's assists you would have won the hockey pool most of the time anyways.  

 

Gretzky's 894 goals will probably be broken by Ovechkin.  But his 1963 assists and 2857 points will never be touched in our lifetimes unless they really change the rules of the game.

Yeah, the 2,857 points will probably never be broken, or at least won’t be broken for a long time still. 

 

Ovie is a great player. To date he’s got 1,368 points. That’s amazing in it’s own right. But 2,800 points is absolutely insane. How many 100 point seasons do you need to get there?? Simply Amazing. Crosby’s got 1,343 points to date. 

 

Today’s game is also so different from Gretzky’s era. I mean, just look at the pads of the goalies today compared to when Gretzky was playing. 

 

 

[MattJVD]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:38 AM, Putgolzin said:

Yes - good point on Hughes.

i was just reading an article talking about potential RHD target options and got to thinking about Hughes.

There was chatter that he created about playing the right side a couple of years back, but we all know how adverse Green was to play D-men on their offhand.

I wonder if there would be more appetite for that with Boudreau, and if we couldn’t bolster our blue line by finding a (presumably more easily found) top four LHD

I wonder if the Kracken have any appitite to trade Larsson. If they decide to go full rebuild (well, build not rebuild. It is the first time) they might be interested in moving  him for futures.

[danjr]

He is an amazing player.
There is one flaw in his game, that if fixed could bring him up another level.

He needs to really go all in on the occasional rush.  Make other teams understand that he can push it all the way in.
He slows his travel in and is looking for passes.  This allows all the defending players to load the blue line and grab a man.
If he goes all in on a rush, he now speeds up play and doesn't allow the blue line to get clogged.  Now players are defending players are turning, allowing players to step to either side of them.  Giving our players a chance to lose coverage, and get an out manned situation.

So now if he does push in all the way, that is another situational defence that a team has to prepare for.  That in turn makes them have to have d prepared to drop back further than clogging the line.  The more tools in your box the harder it is for other teams to counter your game.

[Putgolzin]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:10 AM, N4ZZY said:

Yeah, the 2,857 points will probably never be broken, or at least won’t be broken for a long time still. 

 

Ovie is a great player. To date he’s got 1,368 points. That’s amazing in it’s own right. But 2,800 points is absolutely insane. How many 100 point seasons do you need to get there?? Simply Amazing. Crosby’s got 1,343 points to date. 

 

Today’s game is also so different from Gretzky’s era. I mean, just look at the pads of the goalies today compared to when Gretzky was playing. 

 

 

I once made a bar graph of the Top 100 points scorers in history.

Basically the jump from place to place is pretty even from spot 100 all the way up to second place.
Usually 5 points, or 18 points or maybe 30 points.

Then from second to first is 1000.

 

 

[IBatch]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:59 AM, VancouverHabitant said:

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it's important to look at the league scoring in different eras.    

Gretzky played during the highest scoring era in NHL history.  

https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html 

 

Not saying that I'm 100% in favour of adjusting stats this way, but a lot of people have done it and the only person ahead of Ovechkin right now is Gordie Howe when you tally up his totals across the NHL and WHA, across 30 seasons.  

 

To me, Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, and Gretzky is the greatest forward in NHL history.  I do have a lot of time for Mario Lemieux as well. 

 

I disagree.  Until Ovi breaks his record, like what Phil Esposito said - Wayne is the greatest goal scorer in history.   Different era for sure - no redline - no obstruction.   Bure would have a field day.   32 team league lol.   It's taken a very very long time, for the talent level to get better.  Part of the reasons the 2000's were terrible - was because the stars of the 80's aged out.   It was extremely violent, and extremely talented.   Wayne scored an average of over 70 points ahead of the next best during a ten year period.   Could pick corners and didn't feast on the PP.  73 ShG isn't it or is it 72 can't remember.     Ovi is a lot like Bobby Hull who also scored over 900 pro goals.   Wayne scored more then him and Howe including his 17 year old WHA season.   

Edited January 2, 2022 by IBatch

[Wanless]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:53 AM, MattJVD said:

I wonder if the Kracken have any appitite to trade Larsson. If they decide to go full rebuild (well, build not rebuild. It is the first time) they might be interested in moving  him for futures.

I think something could be worked out for larssen

we would have to get them to take poolman and hamonic which could be doable, but this would also likely include 

 

klimovich, hoglander, or podkolzin and a second rounder

 

this would be a deal that would be made to go all in for a run IMO

[DefCon1]

1 hour ago, Wanless said:

I think something could be worked out for larssen

we would have to get them to take poolman and hamonic which could be doable, but this would also likely include 

 

klimovich, hoglander, or podkolzin and a second rounder

 

this would be a deal that would be made to go all in for a run IMO

There is no way we will trade hoglander and podkolzin. I also dont want to trade Klim.

[Wanless]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

There is no way we will trade hoglander and podkolzin. I also dont want to trade Klim.

Absolutely

Thats where the “or” word comes into play

 

another way to word or is “one of the other” or “one of the three”

[IBatch]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:45 AM, *Buzzsaw* said:

I personally do not think Ovechkin breaks Gretzky's goal record.

 

Howe/Orr/Gretz/Lemieux/Sid were special... they were head and shoulders above everyone.

 

Mario could have been the best ever if he wasn't so incredibly unlucky with injuries and diseases... imagine Ovechkin getting Cancer at the peak of his career?  Mario had the best physical attributes of any of the Superstars...  6'4" 235, with wheels, hands and incredible IQ.  And how about Sid with his concussions downsizing his career stats?

 

Ovechkin is lucky to have been incredibly durable and also on high scoring teams.  His record for winning is nowhere near the other Superstars.  I'd rank him below Bossy... who by the way also had a really short career which cut short his stats... he has the 2nd best goals per game of anyone.

 

Howe won the Art Ross 6 times, six Harts, top ten in NHL scoring 21 years in a row. He led the NHL in goal scoring four times. He led the NHL in Playoff points six times.  Won the Cup four times... plus a bunch of WHL championships.

 

 

 

Pretty sure Bossy GPG is like .75 or something ridiculous...and the best by a good margin.   That said if you take Wayne's first 700 games or whatever Bossy played he's second fiddle to Gretzky...speaking of which almost retired early on as an LA King because his lower back was that bad.   Also suffered other injuries that affected his shot.     The fact that he was a skinny little kid, who back when he started a lot of hockey experts thought he'd be massacred...and wasn't is truly a lost part of his story.     The best hockey ever played - and the best hockey players ever assembled, was during his time with EDM and LA.     Goalies got ventilated not only because they didn't use the butterfly...and they were amazing athletes too... Beezer, Broduer (the other one), Vernon, Irbe - these were tiny little dudes with tiny little pads...playing against these guys yet only let in 5-7% more goals.    With a red line.   Watched the news last night and Messier was on talking about his book.   People forget the wheels he had.   Even at 36 that much was obvious in Vancouver - too bad it was just a fast circle from blue line to blue line - like he was waiting for Paul Coffey or Glen Anderson to pass him the puck.   

 

On Howe.   He's one of the best players ever hands down.   On Sid.   I wonder how Hawerchuk would have managed with some support.   It does take a team, same as Stastny but at least he had a few greats to play with like Goulet.   Would you really rank him higher then Yzerman?   To me Crosby, Yzerman, Sakic, Hawerchuk and probably Stastny are all close to each other.    Ovi vs Hull(s) ... time will tell.   He's got to score over 941 to beat them (and Gretzky - WHA)  as far as i see it. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by IBatch