[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Tampa Bay Lightning | Jan. 13, 2022

[Provost]

34 minutes ago, -Moose said:

Perpetual rebuild, yayyyy 

How is that a perpetual rebuild even remotely?

 

Making hockey trades and getting good roster players back?  You know most teams do that right?  Even contenders.

 

We have lots of good pieces and other good assets that can be traded for good pieces.  It is going to take a year or two to build the team into a real winner.  No one is advocating tearing it down and rebuilding even remotely.

 

 

[DefCon1]

23 minutes ago, Provost said:

How is that a perpetual rebuild even remotely?

 

Making hockey trades and getting good roster players back?  You know most teams do that right?  Even contenders.

 

We have lots of good pieces and other good assets that can be traded for good pieces.  It is going to take a year or two to build the team into a real winner.  No one is advocating tearing it down and rebuilding even remotely.

 

 

Will take longer than that, if you trade your best players for picks and prospects. The prospects might take 2-3 years at best or 4-5 years to become a real good NHLer, the draft pick will need couple of years of AHL or junior hockey and maybe a couple of years in the NHL or AHL afterwards to become a contributor in the NHL. Assuming we play our cards right and get the right prospects and draft good, otherwise we could end up with more Juolevi's or Virtanens. 

[khay]

Good news: We can still "tie" the week if we win the next two games.

 

 

[DefCon1]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Lol everyone always brings up Cam Neely.

 

No he’s not Neely. I’ve never seen a drop off in play from a young player like this. It’s not just point totals his whole demeanour and drive has changed.

 

Franchise players even when not putting up points you see that fire in them. I see no fire in Petey. I see a player that looks like a washed up vet that wants to hit the showers before the game is even over.

 

I get the frustration but I think we need more patience with him. After all Benning and Canucks fans gave 5 freaking years waiting for Virtanen to do something before Benning was forced to terminate his contract due to the criminal charges. I think Petersson will be given more time, I dont see JR trading him for a bag of pucks.

[FaninMex]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol people are prolly going to rip into EP again coz he didn't have any points.. but honestly i think he has played well enough in most of the games so far under boudreau.. he's not scoring but he's setting up plenty of grade A chance that were not finished.

Got to hit the net to be a chance. 

Bo was getting frustrated over his missed opportunity. Petey sits there like, I tried.

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, khay said:

Good news: We can still "tie" the week if we win the next two games.

 

 

Honestly I blame NHL and Aquaman for all the non-sense postponement that really stopped Canucks moment. Was completely idiotic to not play against Sens. They had 12 days off then they played the first 2 games against the two best teams in the NHL who were hot and had played more games and were ready. Canucks came in cold and they just were rusty to execute their game plan. They played good and out shot both teams but I think the execution was off. Lots of bad passes or missed shots due to missing the puck or missing the net. Hope they are more game ready now, that they played 2 games. 

[FaninMex]

To people saying it is no wonder we lost these games, Nah. We are right there with them. If the horrible breaks and postponed games never happen, we win these games. Canucks lost that edge that they were playing with. They need to find that drive.

[DefCon1]

3 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Got to hit the net to be a chance. 

Bo was getting frustrated over his missed opportunity. Petey sits there like, I tried.

Bo also couldn't score all alone, Boeser also kept missing the puck, Dickenson couldn't even shoot with the gaping wide open net. All of this is just rust and being off for 10 to 12 days. Plus they had that covid situation and missed even more games, so they had played like 3 games in one month before coming to FLA. Then facing the hottest teams in the NHL. I think this road trip is not fair to them due to not being able to be game ready. 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Taphouse Canuck said:

Yup. Can't get on the team unless you have led an unblemished life, and visit sick children in your spare time.

Maybe the unblemished life is a tad much, but visiting sick children in your spare time while earning millions? That’s not asking much is it? 

 

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

To people saying it is no wonder we lost these games, Nah. We are right there with them. If the horrible breaks and postponed games never happen, we win these games. Canucks lost that edge that they were playing with. They need to find that drive.

Yep so true, I don't know why Canucks fans are so unrealistic with them losing to two best teams in the NHL while going into both games cold. Its like missing gym for 2 weeks and not working out, then expecting to push more weight or double the weight than you had prior to those two weeks. Its just not realistic to expecting to win but they gave it all and were close against Tampa. I think the execution being off did them in. I think it will get better once they play more games and warm up.

[FaninMex]

5 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

Bo also couldn't score all alone, Boeser also kept missing the puck, Dickenson couldn't even shoot with the gaping wide open net. All of this is just rust and being off for 10 to 12 days. Plus they had that covid situation and missed even more games, so they had played like 3 games in one month before coming to FLA. Then facing the hottest teams in the NHL. I think this road trip is not fair to them due to not being able to be game ready. 

I know it is rust. However, my point was attitude difference. I also did not like having Petey on Bo's wing. I think there are better options and we need lines that are going to generate offense not try to get a player going.

[ShawnAntoski]

5 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

I know it is rust. However, my point was attitude difference. I also did not like having Petey on Bo's wing. I think there are better options and we need lines that are going to generate offense not try to get a player going.

Boudreau, doing his best to get EP going.   Atleast, the team is looking competitive rather than dejected, after a loss.

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Boudreau, doing his best to get EP going.   Atleast, the team is looking competitive rather than dejected, after a loss.

yeah, people are missing that our team truly cares now, and they are playing like they give a damn unlike when Green was coaching and everyone was just coming in to collect their pay cheques while giving minimum effort and not caring as much. 

[ShawnAntoski]

4 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

yeah, people are missing that our team truly cares now, and they are playing like they give a damn unlike when Green was coaching and everyone was just coming in to collect their pay cheques while giving minimum effort and not caring as much. 

Green will always be remembered, as JBs' biggest mistake for his extension.  He was a mediocre coach, at best and his record is well earned - clueless, till the end.

 

Anyways, I do give him some credit, for getting an extension despite his mediocrity 

Edited January 14, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Curmudgeon]

22 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

unlike when Green was coaching and everyone was just coming in to collect their pay cheques while giving minimum effort and not caring as much. 

I don't know how you can say that. I've watched every game and I never saw anyone giving minimum effort and every one of them cared about winning. Any player suspected of not expending appropriate effort won't stay in the league very long. At the end of Green's tenure, it was like the batteries ran out and everything seemed dimmer, but the effort was always there, even though the results weren't. Riddle me this: How many more wins would the Canucks' have if they had a decent penalty kill in the first 25 games? Answer: three or four more than they have now, which would have them in the hunt for a playoff spot. 

[khay]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

How is that a perpetual rebuild even remotely?

 

Making hockey trades and getting good roster players back?  You know most teams do that right?  Even contenders.

 

We have lots of good pieces and other good assets that can be traded for good pieces.  It is going to take a year or two to build the team into a real winner.  No one is advocating tearing it down and rebuilding even remotely.

 

 

 

I see the team that we played as an example franchise to model after. 

 

They won 62 games and got swept in the playoffs in 2018-19. And leading up to that point, they first identified the core roster players to build around (around 2014/2015) and continuously tinkered around the core players before getting to the 2019-20 version that ultimately got them the cup.

 

I think the decisions and subsequent events that took place in 2014-2015 set them up for their recent cups.

 

- They shipped out their best player in Martin St. Louis for Callahan, 2014 1st, 2015 1st (conditional on NYR reaching ECF, which they did), and 2018 7th. Doing a quick retool by trading franchise legend St. Louis (rumored to have requested trade anyways) set the scene for the young guys to take over.

 

- 2015 1st was flipped for Islanders' 2nd and 3rd and the 3rd rounder became Cirelli. Islander picked Beuvillier with the 1st acquired in the trade so both teams won this trade.

 

- Drouin made the team for 2014-15.

 

- Drafted Point in 2014.

 

Their belief in the young players coupled with good roster decisions got them to the cup final in 2015. Being patient and continuously making smart hockey trades and improving the roster ultimately won them the cup in 2020. It's a long process.

 

When I compare our current roster to 2014 Tampa roster I see some similarities. 

 

Their 2014 roster had St. Louis (traded), Palat, Filppula, Johnson, Purcell, Killorn, Stamkos (injured), Kucherov (first season). 

Their cup final 2015 roster had  Stamkos, Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Callahan, Filpulla, Kilorn, Drouin in the top 9.

 

The bolded guys were on the 2020 cup winning team, which also included Point, Cirelli, and Gourde.

 

Kucherov, Johnson, and Palat made huge progresses that more than made up for loss of St. Louis and Purcell while Callahan added center depth and Drouin added youthful skill.

 

Top forwards on our roster: Miller, Garland, Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Pearson, Hoglander, Podkolzin.

 

I think the bolded players are our core players to build around.

 

Our roster is currently led by Miller, much younger than St. Louis who was 39 in 2014 but just as the Bolts reached (an obvious) conclusion that St. Louis wasn't going to lead them to the cup, we need to decide if JT is the guy that's going to lead us to the cup.

 

As much as I love Miller, I think the answer is no. If the playoffs are out of the reach, trading him at the TDL to retool and hoping for progression from within may be the way to go. And he should fetch us a similar package (if not better) to St. Louis. We should get a young player about to make the NHL or is already in the NHL and a 1st rounder at the least.

 

For the team to take the next step, we need Pettersson to at least get back to PPG level as a center and Hog and Podz to take the next steps. And an upgrade on defence plus a 3C (or maybe Dickinson is the answer?) and who knows where this team will be next season?

 

And even if we don't win in a year or two, it doesn't end. We gotta continue to upgrade the roster. Hopefully we draft well along the way. Whoever we draft with our own pick as well as the 1st rounder that we get from Miller trade could do what Point and Cirelli did for the Bolts 3-5 years later and help us finally win one.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by khay

[filthycanuck]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

I get the frustration but I think we need more patience with him. After all Benning and Canucks fans gave 5 freaking years waiting for Virtanen to do something before Benning was forced to terminate his contract due to the criminal charges. I think Petersson will be given more time, I dont see JR trading him for a bag of pucks.

Unless its for a premier D-man (Heiskenen? <3 dare to dream!) but yeah I think they'll give Petey another year. If JR is going to make any moves, it will probably be minor ones . His big moves won't probably come till the off season unless we are really out of the playoffs

[khay]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

Honestly I blame NHL and Aquaman for all the non-sense postponement that really stopped Canucks moment. Was completely idiotic to not play against Sens. They had 12 days off then they played the first 2 games against the two best teams in the NHL who were hot and had played more games and were ready. Canucks came in cold and they just were rusty to execute their game plan. They played good and out shot both teams but I think the execution was off. Lots of bad passes or missed shots due to missing the puck or missing the net. Hope they are more game ready now, that they played 2 games. 

Agree.

 

I may be overly optimistic but we could have easily gone 14-1-1 going into Florida as the only team that was clearly better than us was Toronto. 

 

With that kind of momentum, I bet the results against the Panthers and Bolts could have been very different.

 

[filthycanuck]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

Yep so true, I don't know why Canucks fans are so unrealistic with them losing to two best teams in the NHL while going into both games cold. Its like missing gym for 2 weeks and not working out, then expecting to push more weight or double the weight than you had prior to those two weeks. Its just not realistic to expecting to win but they gave it all and were close against Tampa. I think the execution being off did them in. I think it will get better once they play more games and warm up.

Be glad it wasn't a blow out which I was expecting. The team for the most part played well, but when they made a mistake, the lightning made them pay. Not to suprising. I think the team will be fine going forward. They are at least playing hard. Can't say the same when Travis was coaching where if the team was losing, there was little to no pushback

[filthycanuck]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

I don't know how you can say that. I've watched every game and I never saw anyone giving minimum effort and every one of them cared about winning. Any player suspected of not expending appropriate effort won't stay in the league very long. At the end of Green's tenure, it was like the batteries ran out and everything seemed dimmer, but the effort was always there, even though the results weren't. Riddle me this: How many more wins would the Canucks' have if they had a decent penalty kill in the first 25 games? Answer: three or four more than they have now, which would have them in the hunt for a playoff spot. 

Im not sure about that. When Green was the coach, when they were losing, the whole team just caved. Regardless of the record, under Boudreau, the Canucks for a large majority have outplayed their opponents. That streak of games where the Canucks were letting in 7 goals or something like that, was down right terrible. The effort level was inexcusable

Edited January 14, 2022 by filthycanuck