[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Washington Capitals | Jan. 16, 2022

[CanucksJay]

29 minutes ago, stawns said:

I said in another thread I'd be asking for Chytll, Schneids and a second, at least.  

According to some here, replacing Tanev and Markstrom with Demko and Schmidt led to a mutiny against JB and co which resulted in a dismal performance last year and start of this year. 

I wonder what would happen to JR if we let our top scorer go... 

I am a proponent of letting this season play out longer. We have just over 2 mths until trade deadline. 

What if we keep playing red hot and the team is clicking on all cylinders including Petey? 

If we are challenging for 2 or 3 spot in the Pacific and at worst a wild card while winning most of our games, would you actually sell? 

I think that would be more demoralizing for the players rather than "poor asset management" by keeping them for a playoff run while running the risk of losing them. 

Who knows, if we make it far in the playoffs, maybe ppl start taking discounts and stay. 

Maybe we attract other talent that wants to be part of a team that is ascending. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that i believe in the group of guys that are here right now. There's 2 more months to watch this play out. We might be pleasantly surprised by March 21 to see where we are at in the standings. 

So far under BB, team has passed with flying colors. 

So we came up a little short against the 1,2,4th team in the league. How about the next stretch against legitimate playoff teams like Washington, Nashville, St Louis. If we are better than them, why would we sell? Are those teams selling? 

 

I feel like some of us have more fun playing GM Mode in NHL22 rather than watching and cheering on this team...

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by CanucksJay

[Hairy Kneel]

15 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

They trade Miller this year and they're down one fan for a while. 

 

Perpetual rebuild has is something I don't enjoy. 

If we're thinking of getting fleeced for JT, I hope they package him with OEL.Retain 2M. So at east we can rebuild properly. 

 

[Gawdzukes]

7 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

How reputable is Servalli? 

 

Pretty good. I remember him being the sole insider on a couple big scoops last year. Not one of those tools like Dredger that just retweet other peoples stuff. If we're looking at trading him or not re-signing him to a retirement deal then we should and probably will trade him if we get a good offer. It really depends on Miller. If he has an eye of playing in the States to end his career then he's as good as gone anyway.

[Junkyard Dog]

If you listened to Servalli‘s interview on 650 he said that Rutherford went around the league to get a feel on where everyone is at. Teams responded with interest with players and Rutherford responded with wanting to get through this road trip first.

 

He said to get a feel for this team but I highly reckon to have a GM in place before making any moves or decisions. He implied that Canucks are not too far away from hiring someone. In person interviews happening soon. 
 

He expressed that Rangers were one of the teams heavily ‘all over’ JT Miller. Talked about potential return and implied that younger players that are ready sooner might be better return than just picks.

 

Shah and Servalli expressed that they can stall a decision on Miller this year if they wanted but Servalli said the most return you’d get is this year and with a guy like Motte they don’t really have that luxury with. Also said that there would be interest in Schenn but other D pieces like Chychrun/Chairot would have to fall first. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Junkyard Dog

[BarnBurner]

7 hours ago, Hogs & Podz said:

I'd be tickled pink.

 

Miller is a player you win cups with. He'll go to the wall for you.

 

Figure out a way to keep him and build around.

[Junkyard Dog]

Here’s the bit in regards in Miller and the Rags. 
 

 

[DeNiro]

7 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Kravtsov? Really? That guy could be hit or miss. Can we afford to have a guy like that coming back for Miller? 

 

That 1st is also going to be mid 1st. Would rather have another young roster player coming back. 1 Grade A prospect, a young roster player, and a 1st. Would that be too much to ask for a point per game PWF with a good contract for the next 1.5 years? We might have to throw in something for that to work. But how badly do the Rangers want Miller? Could a bidding war happen here? 

 

 

Kravstov is just the extra in that deal. He’s a top 10 pick who’s performing well in the KHL. Big kid too.

 

The deal centers around Schneider who looks like a stud right hand D (exactly what we need). 
 

The first is standard in any deal like that. Any 1st you get is gonna be a late one.

 

Its quite an overpayment. Doubt they’d even offer that much.

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by DeNiro

[johngould21]

7 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If you listened to Servalli‘s interview on 650 he said that Rutherford went around the league to get a feel on where everyone is at. Teams responded with interest with players and Rutherford responded with wanting to get through this road trip first.

 

He said to get a feel for this team but I highly reckon to have a GM in place before making any moves or decisions. He implied that Canucks are not too far away from hiring someone. In person interviews happening soon. 
 

He expressed that Rangers were one of the teams heavily ‘all over’ JT Miller. Talked about potential return and implied that younger players that are ready sooner might be better return than just picks.

 

Shah and Servalli expressed that they can stall a decision on Miller this year if they wanted but Servalli said the most return you’d get is this year and with a guy like Motte they don’t really have that luxury with. Also said that there would be interest in Schenn but other D pieces like Chychrun/Chairot would have to fall first. 

Those "picks" add about three or four more years to being able to contend. Especially defensemen.

[CanucksJay]

6 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

If we're thinking of getting fleeced for JT, I hope they package him with OEL.Retain 2M. So at east we can rebuild properly. 

 

I guess the question is, do we need a rebuild though? 

Are the canucks the team we saw the past 2 years under TG or is the real team what we are seeing under BB? 

If the latter, we aren't far off. I thought we outplayed Tampa, got outplayed by Carolina and slightly outplayed Florida. Our next stretch of games against Western teams like Nashville, St Louis, Cgy Edmonton Winnipeg will tell us exactly where we are at. If we are better than them, doesn't that mean we have a legit chance at getting to the 2nd or 3rd round? 

If we lose those games, then yes clearly we aren't a playoff team. 

Losing games like Det, Buffalo, Chi earlier in the season hurt.

We win those and we'd be in the middle of a playoff fight. 

[lmm]

15 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

What I worry about with this team is they are backsliding a bit into some defensive bad habits over the past few games... including against Washington.

 

These are the same bad habits they learned under Green and which were a huge part of the team's poor performance under him.

 

Those are a lack of aggressiveness on the forecheck and in the neutral zone, and a tendency to collapse to the net in the defensive zone.

 

There was a lot of running around in the D-Zone against Washington.

 

The Canucks don't seem to know whether to play zone or man on man when they are 5 on 5 and it results in a lot of puck possession time for the opposition.

 

I was watching them chase the puck a lot.... with 2 guys running after one opponent... leaving the inevitable open guy to take the cycle pass.

 

I think they need to get back to man on man coverage when 5 on 5... and pressure a lot more.

 

On the PK there is no choice but to go zone coverage when in the D-Zone, but at the same time, they need to work harder to disrupt the opponents in the neutral zone and stand up better at the Blue line.  They were doing that in the first 7 game win streak of BB's tenure, but lately they have fallen off the wagon again, and are back to surrendering the Blue line and collapsing to the net just like during Green.

 

This is really damaging to a team's play... it costs in a number of ways:

 

-  Gives the other team opportunities to shoot and score

 

-  Tires the team out, and kills their energy to carry the game to the opponent

 

-  Can cause injuries with all the shot blocking required to prevent all the shots the other team gets, from making it through to the goal.

 

When a team's forwards are aggressive in the neutral zone in a smart way, and at the same time the defense stands up at the blue line, this works together.  The forwards pressure the puck carrier and channel him towards the D waiting on the blue line... which gives the D the chance to hit and/or forces the opponent to shoot the puck in instead of carrying it in with possession.  The team works together.

 

Anyway, I am seeing some not positive signs that I hope BB kicks their a$$'s about.

the thing I noticed return lately is the 'I' formation on the PK

I thought the 'I' formation was a football play

but the Canucks use it during the PK

           D

  f  f         G

           D

are the forwards just lost?

it give up a lot of room on the boards and point

[lmm]

5 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

According to some here, replacing Tanev and Markstrom with Demko and Schmidt led to a mutiny against JB and co which resulted in a dismal performance last year and start of this year. 

I wonder what would happen to JR if we let our top scorer go... 

I am a proponent of letting this season play out longer. We have just over 2 mths until trade deadline. 

What if we keep playing red hot and the team is clicking on all cylinders including Petey? 

If we are challenging for 2 or 3 spot in the Pacific and at worst a wild card while winning most of our games, would you actually sell? 

I think that would be more demoralizing for the players rather than "poor asset management" by keeping them for a playoff run while running the risk of losing them. 

Who knows, if we make it far in the playoffs, maybe ppl start taking discounts and stay. 

Maybe we attract other talent that wants to be part of a team that is ascending. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that i believe in the group of guys that are here right now. There's 2 more months to watch this play out. We might be pleasantly surprised by March 21 to see where we are at in the standings. 

So far under BB, team has passed with flying colors. 

So we came up a little short against the 1,2,4th team in the league. How about the next stretch against legitimate playoff teams like Washington, Nashville, St Louis. If we are better than them, why would we sell? Are those teams selling? 

 

I feel like some of us have more fun playing GM Mode in NHL22 rather than watching and cheering on this team...

 

here is the thing though

nobody complained when Jimmer traded Bieksa and Garrison for 2nds

but some of Jim's shine came off when he let Hamhius go for nothing

I think the players know better than the fans where the team is in its progression

they also know when the GM /coach are screwing with them

The Miller trade was a sign that the Canucks were moving into playoff mode, I think he even said so

the Marky/Tanev/Toffoli summer was a sign Jim had lost his way and was wasting the players careers

 

And It wasn't Markstrom for Demko, it was Markstrom for Holtby, who didn't fit in , so ya, there was some room issue there

It was Tanev for Schmidt and a 3rd, and Tanev made Hughes better and Schmidt did not, so there was room issues with Schmidt and on ice issues as he did not compliment Hughes the same or better than Tanev.. Then he went and got Poolman who does not play well with Hughes either.

 

But if this team does implode because the new GM makes a trade, then the new guy has no choice than to start moving out more pieces

Do you think Rutherford or Boudreau are going to sit idly by and let the team decide who stays and who goes or whose ice time goes up and whose goes down?

 

And If Rutherford or his new GM trade Miller for Vey and Baertschi (both traded for 2nd round picks) it will be a signal that this Jim has lost his way

If however he trades Miller for DeBrincat and Fox circa 2019 (a 2nd and  3rd rounder from 2016)  then the team and the fans can get behind that deal

 

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

22 hours ago, Goal:thecup said:

Pretty sure I had that one; think you could fit a roll in the chamber; I was about 4 and had the whole leather jacket and chaps and belt and holster and bullets that fit in the belt, and I didn't remember all that, hat and boots, until I started typing; also, later had a racoon hat that went with the outfit.  Most likely Sears catalogue order.

Thanks.

Yep ... great memories. I had the belt & holster as well. Also a racoon hat. I'm guessing Sears Christmas Wishbook.

[CanucksJay]

3 hours ago, lmm said:

 

I think the players know better than the fans where the team is in its progression

they also know when the GM /coach are screwing with them

The Miller trade was a sign that the Canucks were moving into playoff mode, I think he even said so

the Marky/Tanev/Toffoli summer was a sign Jim had lost his way and was wasting the players careers

 

And It wasn't Markstrom for Demko, it was Markstrom for Holtby, who didn't fit in , so ya, there was some room issue there

It was Tanev for Schmidt and a 3rd, and Tanev made Hughes better and Schmidt did not, so there was room issues with Schmidt and on ice issues as he did not compliment Hughes the same or better than Tanev.. Then he went and got Poolman who does not play well with Hughes either.

 

I would hope the GM knows better than individual players where they are at.  Players have tunnel vision. They always think they can play at a high level when reality might not be the case.

AS for the Marky Tanev Taffol. What did you expect?

Canucks were in a dog fight to make the playoffs.  They actually made it to game 7 in round 2 vs the Knights. Did you expect Benning to sell his starting star goalie and best defensive d-man at the deadline? He did the opposite. He bought Taffoli at the deadline. If Benning sells instead of adding, what message does that send to the players that are on the team trying to make a playoff run?

If I was Horvat, Petey, Boeser, I'd ask for a trade if I see my GM throw in the towel and sell when we are a young team heading into the playoffs.

Playoffs started and then 2 things became evident after the Vegas series.

We needed puck moving D and...Demko emerged

We had choices to make.

Do we re-sign an aging Tanev who is solid in his own end but injury prone OR do we go out and get a good puckmoving Dman like Schmidt?

I would say that 90% of the board was elated whe we got Nate. Benning addressed an area of need that was quite evident after the playoffs.

Then comes Demko vs Marky debate. Let me ask you this.  Arent you glad we have Demko at 5m over Markstrom?

It wasnt Marky or Holtby. Holty was only signed as a vet presence to relieve all the pressure off Demko. It was crystal clear that when Canucks let Marky go, it was because they decided to go with Demko.

I think it's a pretty big stretch to say players on the team gave up after those moves. The GM made moves at the deadline to win and hten made offseason moves to try improving the team.

 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

13 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Kravstov is just the extra in that deal. He’s a top 10 pick who’s performing well in the KHL. Big kid too.

 

The deal centers around Schneider who looks like a stud right hand D (exactly what we need). 
 

The first is standard in any deal like that. Any 1st you get is gonna be a late one.

 

Its quite an overpayment. Doubt they’d even offer that much.

 

I can’t even imagine the Rangers actually agreeing to parting ways with Schneider. Probably get Lundqist to be honest. 

 

Kravtsov in my books is a big gamble. Actually, 2 out of the three assets we’d be getting from the Rangers would all be gambles. The first is a gamble as any draft pick would be. Kravtsov is a gamble. Would he come to the Canucks upon hearing that he gets traded here? Or does he remain in the KHL? Schneider is the only one with legit promise, and he’s not even in the NHL (yet). 

 

So what do we actually get for Miller? A point a game producing PWF in the league? Who’s big, can kill penalties, play on the power play? What kind of package should we be getting for a player of that magnitude? 

 

[DeNiro]

30 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I can’t even imagine the Rangers actually agreeing to parting ways with Schneider. Probably get Lundqist to be honest. 

 

Kravtsov in my books is a big gamble. Actually, 2 out of the three assets we’d be getting from the Rangers would all be gambles. The first is a gamble as any draft pick would be. Kravtsov is a gamble. Would he come to the Canucks upon hearing that he gets traded here? Or does he remain in the KHL? Schneider is the only one with legit promise, and he’s not even in the NHL (yet). 

 

So what do we actually get for Miller? A point a game producing PWF in the league? Who’s big, can kill penalties, play on the power play? What kind of package should we be getting for a player of that magnitude? 

 

You’re not gonna get better than two blue chip prospects and a 1st that’s for sure.

 

I think we may be overvaluing Miller here. He’s extremely important to us but he’s a support player on a contender.

 

Schneider is a stud that puts up points and plays physical. Think a young Brent Seabrook.

 

Kravstov is gonna be a stud. Maybe not a star but a really good support player. He played with Podz in Russia. I’m sure he would come here he just wants an opportunity.

 

The first with proper drafting could very well equal another good defenseman which is what desperately need right now.

 

This is an amazing package for any top player believe me. Which is why it likely won’t happen. But it’s the type of deal it would take for us to even consider trading him.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by DeNiro

[N4ZZY]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

You’re not gonna get better than two blue chip prospects and a 1st that’s for sure.

 

I think we may be overvaluing Miller here. He’s extremely important to us but he’s a support player on a contender.

 

Schneider is a stud that puts up points and plays physical. Think a young Brent Seabrook.

 

Kravstov is gonna be a stud. Maybe not a star but a really good support player. He played with Podz in Russia. I’m sure he would come here he just wants an opportunity.

 

The first with proper drafting could very well equal another good defenseman which is what desperately need right now.

 

This is an amazing package for any top player believe me. Which is why it likely won’t happen. But it’s the type of deal it would take for us to even consider trading him.

 

I hear ya. 

 

I hope Rutherford can get a bidding war for Miller. If that happens, we could get a very good package. I love what you were proposing though. Schneider, Kravstov and a 1st. The 1st probably not with two blue chip prospects. But I wonder how badly the Rangers wants Miller. If they want him that bad, maybe you think they might actually agree to that package for a top six forward. 

[lmm]

22 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

I would hope the GM knows better than individual players where they are at.  Players have tunnel vision. They always think they can play at a high level when reality might not be the case.

AS for the Marky Tanev Taffol. What did you expect?

Canucks were in a dog fight to make the playoffs.  They actually made it to game 7 in round 2 vs the Knights. Did you expect Benning to sell his starting star goalie and best defensive d-man at the deadline? He did the opposite. He bought Taffoli at the deadline. If Benning sells instead of adding, what message does that send to the players that are on the team trying to make a playoff run?

If I was Horvat, Petey, Boeser, I'd ask for a trade if I see my GM throw in the towel and sell when we are a young team heading into the playoffs.

Playoffs started and then 2 things became evident after the Vegas series.

We needed puck moving D and...Demko emerged

We had choices to make.

Do we re-sign an aging Tanev who is solid in his own end but injury prone OR do we go out and get a good puckmoving Dman like Schmidt?

I would say that 90% of the board was elated whe we got Nate. Benning addressed an area of need that was quite evident after the playoffs.

Then comes Demko vs Marky debate. Let me ask you this.  Arent you glad we have Demko at 5m over Markstrom?

It wasnt Marky or Holtby. Holty was only signed as a vet presence to relieve all the pressure off Demko. It was crystal clear that when Canucks let Marky go, it was because they decided to go with Demko.

I think it's a pretty big stretch to say players on the team gave up after those moves. The GM made moves at the deadline to win and hten made offseason moves to try improving the team.

 

 

 

What did I expect? 

 Well you are talking to someone who gave up on Jimmer's ability to build a team somewhere between the Linden Vey trade and the Loui Ericksson signing

So, I expected pretty much exactly what I got.

Jimmer fast forwarding his reboot/retool/rebuilt, and making bad decisions on asset management and overpayments for short term gain

 

WHAT message does that send?

  That is the new hot excuse. How many times have I read that in the last 2 weeks?

Benning could not sell assets because "What message would it send?"

 Rutherford can't trade assets or "What message will it send?"

 Here is a question, What message did Jimmer send, when he resigned Green?

That is when the real revolt took place.

 

Bolded

do you see the paradox in those two statements?

 

Large

I too would hope the GM knows better,

but the truth is Jim didn't

and that is why he got fired

NO GM should have fans chanting for his head and throwing jerseys on the ice

But Jim did because he didn't know better than the players or the fans

The only one he had fooled it seems was Aqua

 

Tunnel vision

I agree players have tunnel vision, 

but, again, when things go bad for as long as they did in Vancouver, only the slowest dullards keep believing

As was evident when Petey spoke out in the Summer

It should be crystal clear to you that when Pettersson spoke about wanting to play on a winner, that he was speaking from outside the tunnel.

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

What did I expect? 

 Well you are talking to someone who gave up on Jimmer's ability to build a team somewhere between the Linden Vey trade and the Loui Ericksson signing

So, I expected pretty much exactly what I got.

Jimmer fast forwarding his reboot/retool/rebuilt, and making bad decisions on asset management and overpayments for short term gain

 

WHAT message does that send?

  That is the new hot excuse. How many times have I read that in the last 2 weeks?

Benning could not sell assets because "What message would it send?"

 Rutherford can't trade assets or "What message will it send?"

 Here is a question, What message did Jimmer send, when he resigned Green?

That is when the real revolt took place.

 

Bolded

do you see the paradox in those two statements?

 

Large

I too would hope the GM knows better,

but the truth is Jim didn't

and that is why he got fired

NO GM should have fans chanting for his head and throwing jerseys on the ice

But Jim did because he didn't know better than the players or the fans

The only one he had fooled it seems was Aqua

 

Tunnel vision

I agree players have tunnel vision, 

but, again, when things go bad for as long as they did in Vancouver, only the slowest dullards keep believing

As was evident when Petey spoke out in the Summer

It should be crystal clear to you that when Pettersson spoke about wanting to play on a winner, that he was speaking from outside the tunnel.

Wow lots to go through there. 

If you're going all the way back to Vey trade and Player Name signing and saying that's when he lost you, it looks like JB had no hope under you. I wasnt a fan of either of those moves either. In fact, I was screaming for a rebuild after the Kings knocked out the canucks in the first round in 2012. 

When JB was hired, the rumor was that Aquaman didnt want a rebuild. He wanted playoff revenue and wanted JB to get his team back to the dance ASAP. Gillis was fired because he refused and wanted to rebuild so they hired Benning. What's Benning going to do? Ignore his boss? That came followed up by signings like Sutter, Beagle Roussel and again, I'm not happy with any of those moves but hey, when your owner wants you to get back into thr playoffs, you gotta try right? I guess you can also say no but that probably means you're looking for a job elsewhere. 

 

Now on to your points. 

BOLDED- There is no paradox. What Benning did was keep his star goalie at the deadline along with his best defensive d man and added another solid top 6 winger in a push to make the playoffs. 

Are you telling me that players on the roster would have been happier if they traded Markstrom and Tanev at the deadline and didnt get Taffoli because their GM was doing great asset management? 

Im being consistent by saying the players want to win. They want to play for a winning team and the moves Benning made that year reflect that. He would rather keep his star players and make the playoffs rather then sell them before we even get to the playoffs. 

He then saw the deficiencies when we lost against Vegas. Demko outplayed Marky. Marky is older and will be costlier so he went with Demko. That was a great decision. He then looked at Tanev. He is a good dman but he was injury prone and there were many questions regarding his age and durability. Also it was evident we needed a puck moving dman as we couldn't get out of Vegas forecheck. So he let Tanev go and got Schmidt. Those were all hockey moves that are made to try improving the team.

 

Also "what message does that send?" have you heard of playoff teams that sell at the deadline for "asset management? " Pretty sure you ask a pro in any sport and they'd be pretty pissed if their GM did that. As for message sent when re-signing TG? Yeah maybe you're right there. 

Unlike some of you, (maybe im late to the party) but i admitted that TG got me during the bubble. 

It looked like we had a tight knit group and the guys respected him. 

I think for the longest time, our team was not expected to be good so bubble seemed like an over achievement and it looked like TG was getting good performance out of the team. Then last year happened and it was awful. But then again, it was a shortened covid season, no training camp with the entire team going down with covid. So were we truly able to evaluate TG as well as the team? Probably not. 

 

Then came this training camp and preseason. This year i had high hopes coming in. Then i see how TG runs things and start to get worried. Then i see preseason... Then regular season and i had that ah ha moment like.... "Shoot... TG is actually a moron." We over achieved in the bubble but maybe that was in spite of TG. 

Our roster that just went 10-3-1 was the exact one JB left us with. Only change was the staff. 

Are you telling me this isn't a playoff team? 

Is this a BB coaching bump and we'll see the guys suck again and fall back to bottom 5? 

If not, it looks like JB actually did a good job with the roster and the fatal mistake was hiring and backing up the wrong coach. 

 

Also the bit about not fooling anyone besides Aqua. Maybe you and I who are sitting outside aren't privy to the details. Where there's smoke, there's fire. All the rumors about ownership meddling... What if the mess was actually created by Aqua so between JB and Aqua, Aqua knew it was unfair to fire JB for his own mistakes? We don't know the full story. What if JB asked for a better coaching budget but Aqua wouldn't budge? TG was one of the lowest paid coaches in the league but maybe the budget structure handcuffed JB. Aqua is not stupid. You think he knows less about what's going on with the team then fans like us? This is totally absurd.