[Report] Canucks name Patrik Allvin as GM

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[King Heffy]

13 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

No definitely nepotism. Alvin is definitely qualified on paper for the GM job.

 

He is favored but has the qualifications. Cronyism would imply he ain't even qualified for the job. Cronyism is like hiring Ben Carson as Secretary of housing and urban development.

Or hiring Baumgartner and Weisbrod.

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

This! This is building a culture and high standard. Best quote I’ve seen so far

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, JM_ said:

why can't it be both? why does them having a previous working relationship discredit Allvin for you?

If the European scouting and overall scouting in Pittsburgh while Allvin ran those particular departments had been better, I might not be so quick to jump to cronyism. As it stands, based on the information available to us, it doesn't look like Allvin excelled in any of the positions he held, unless we are to assume that he excelled at some aspect of the job(s) behind the scenes that we're just not aware of.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, JM_ said:

its kinda true. 

 

But we do know a lot of things that can give us some hope, like the resume's of the folks brought in. 

 

One thing that occurs to be about the concerns over some nepotism with Allvin, is Rutherford kept him in the organization. Allvin was with the Pen's for something like 8 or 9 years before JR took over, and didn't broom him. If he was a dud, he wouldn't have lasted through 3 different management groups in Pitts. 

Yeah optimism is fine in all walks of life. It's the people who try too hard to make negative claims like he's poor at drafting yet they have no real clue as to exactly which if any players he was responsible for or if he merely looked after the people involved, or what he even did on a day to day basis. Scouting departments are huge and so are a Gm/Agm's responsibilities.

 

Similarly some people think the GM job or the capologists job is to come in the office everyday and count up to $82.5 over (EA hockey) and over again and a hundred different ways from Sunday. Let's be honest how many people know exactly what the GM or AGM does for 60-80 hours a week for any one organization? Like basically no one on this site is qualified to answer that. How many people actually know what other people do on a day to day basis, even in a regular job? It would be like me pretending I know how to procure medical equipment for hospitals or something just because I know one clever guy on the internet. 

 

The only reason I mentioned it is because I saw a handful of posters making absolute claims last night about things they can't possibly know. You would recognize the posters ... they like to criticize heavily but demonstrate often they don't know what they're talking about. It's one thing to comment on a players goal scoring ability when you watch them 50 times a year. Pretty hard to evaluate a GM when you never see them at work. I'm 97.5% sure these posters didn't even know who Allvin was last month and now they're experts on him having supposedly kept tabs on the Penguins middling front office staff for the past 15 years. 

 

I've given up trying to be overly critical of management groups as it's a massive beast. As soon as their plan diverts from a regular persons it's like comparing apples and oranges without seeing what's in the boxes. From where I sit all we can do is have faith this group is going to do good things for this team moving forward, and hopefully bring us a cup. Anyone complaining at this point is really out to lunch. I mean he's been on the job for like 12 hours now, but it's never too early for CDC to lay the groundwork. lol

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If the European scouting and overall scouting in Pittsburgh while Allvin ran those particular departments had been better, I might not be so quick to jump to cronyism. As it stands, based on the information available to us, it doesn't look like Allvin excelled in any of the positions he held, unless we are to assume that he excelled at some aspect of the job(s) behind the scenes that we're just not aware of.

sounds like the last part is quite possible. 

 

As far as the scouting goes, yes its not a list that knock one off your chair. I'm hoping the team that Benning built here, and hopefully another AGM with a lot of amateur scouting experience, is part of things moving forward. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[DSVII]

Canucks Fans, Day 0 of the new GM's job:

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, JM_ said:

sounds like the last part is quite possible. 

 

As far as the scouting goes, yes its not a list that knock one off your chair. I'm hoping the team that Benning built here, and hopefully another AGM with a lot of amateur scouting experience, is part of things moving forward. 

Problem with the bolded is that it's merely an assumption being made to reinforce blind faith. It could be said about literally any choice that Rutherford could have made. All we have to go on are the resumes of those involved and the odds that the best person for the job just so happened to be the guy Rutherford had worked with before.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

1 minute ago, DSVII said:

Canucks Fans, Day 0 of the new GM's job:

 

Lol. Please clean up Benning’s mess.

[Taphouse Canuck]

If we end up with half the success that PITT has had over the years I think we'll all be happy.

[grandmaster]

9 hours ago, ABNucksfan said:

For those who whine and cry about trading 1st round picks. Look above. It works if done right. I would trade our next 10 first round picks if JR brings us a Cup.

[Devron]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

For those who whine and cry about trading 1st round picks. Look above. It works if done right. I would trade our next 10 first round picks if JR brings us a Cup.

That’s a drafted Crosby right there lol.

[48MPHSlapShot]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

For those who whine and cry about trading 1st round picks. Look above. It works if done right. I would trade our next 10 first round picks if JR brings us a Cup.

A 1st round pick was used to select the guy in the gif. Just sayin'

[Warhippy]

I have serious issues with this as it looks more like a group of yes men and a token AGM who might be ignored.  If the idea was just to bring over the old Pitts brass then why play games and pretend anyone else was in the running as we've known it was Allvin for a week or two now?

 

The reason I have an issue with this is the fact that people who willingly go along with plans instead of leading invariably fail to lead when the time comes.  If JR wanted to hire a person he could mentor in to being a quality GM once he left then why pick someone who has essentially been his staff in the past?

 

That being said.  Allvin spent 2002/2006 with the Habs and then 2006/present with the Pens as a scout etc.

 

In his tenure with Montreal he was part of the group that drafted or found 

 

Higgins, Halak, Lapierre, A Kostitsyn, O'Byrne, Chipchura, emelin, Grabovski, Streit, Price, Latendresse, S Kostitsyn, D'Agostini

 

Many of those are players that had decent careers while not being found anywhere near the 1st round.  Seems to be a decent record.

 

In his tenure with Pittsburgh he was part of the group that drafted or found

 

Staal, Strait, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Depres, Bennett, Kuhnackl, Rust, Morrow, Harrington, Archibald, Wilson, Pouliot, Maata, Blueger, Sunqvist, Murray, Guentzel, Jarry, Kapanen, Lafferty, Sprong, Simon. 

 

Currently from 2016 and upwards we do not see any major names or players in the league that have been drafted under the group he was or has been associated with in terms of scouting.  BUT!  The names otherwise listed all played more than 100+ NHL games and most of/many of were found outside that first round.

 

That's right, the overwhelming amount of names on that list are all late 2nd round or lower.  which is actually quite impressive from a success vs failure stand point

 

So while I have reservations about the potential echo chamber of yes individuals surrounding JR and now present in the team hierarchy.  I am far less worried than some it appears.  he's a new GM, let's see what he can do.

 

At least wait until he's made his first trade to bury him or seat him on a podium, because that first trade looks like it might be a doozy

[Gawdzukes]

31 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

How is Jim hiring two of his buddies "stepping outside the box"?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[appleboy]

5 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Jim's cap management was horrible and it is why he couldn't keep players like Tanev and Toffoli.  " A team that is up against the cap and not in the playoffs is not a great thing".  Great quote.

Jim's extra mil hear and extra year there was his down fall. It hand cuffed the team into mediocracy. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

To paraphrase the late, great Meatloaf, "One out of three is....not great"

[Warhippy]

I also might hesitate to point out.  JR/Allvin as part of the Pitts team took over a team that had Crosby, Letang, Fleury and Malkin as its core.  As well as other numerous trade pieces that were shuffled for quality return.  For those lauding the cup wins JR/Allvin enjoyed while in Pittsburgh, remember it would have been like taking over the GM position in Detroit in the mid to late 90s or the Oilers in the mid 80s.  When the most important pieces of the puzzle are there it is easy to complement them.

 

Vancouver is a very different beast for them and it will show if they are in fact builders or not and it's going to be fun watching what they do.

 

Now let's avoid the doom and gloom and just accept that we now have our new GM and carry on chasing a playoff berth.