[Report] Canucks name Patrik Allvin as GM

[AV.]

7 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Just talking about, Bennings' tenure.

 

Unless, you're watching recordings of the Canucks under Green, the team has obviously played a lot better - as a team and outside, of the covid protocol affecting the roster - the team is still able to get points.   

Maybe they're playing better because their bosses are no longer two guys with the communication and empathy skills of a cactus.

[Nucker 67]

4 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

He’s the only player of worth where you could change your franchise and fix holes that need to be filled. Getting a draft pick and a rh dman is something that the organization needs to fix. He’s really the only player who can do that. I know people don’t want to rebuild but if this franchise is serious about wanting to win the cup, it needs to be done. None of this cutting corners we have seen. Look how many wasted years have gone by when the organization cuts corners.It’s proven it doesn’t work. Plus Miller isn’t going to want to stay if they just flounder like the organization has for a lot of years. He will just walk.

It's a very difficult decision. He's (Miller) their best player, has more heart than anyone on the team, a guy who wants to win so badly.  But this team also needs at least one more Top 4 Dman.

 

From what I understand, JR and Co want to get faster. This has a Boeser trade written all over it. 

[The Lock]

Just now, tas said:

I have a great idea! let's all assume the absolute worst about all of these hires, extend the benefit of the doubt to precisely no one, and heavily scrutinize every single tiny little scrap of information that we can get our hands on.

 

f***in' cdc. 

I know right? It's arguments like these that come before anything that's even done that make me wonder why I'm even here in the 1st place. Might as well just throw all logic out the window. In fact, why have a team even if this is how spoiled we're going to act. lol

[Gawdzukes]

30 minutes ago, JM_ said:

sounds like the last part is quite possible. 

 

As far as the scouting goes, yes its not a list that knock one off your chair. I'm hoping the team that Benning built here, and hopefully another AGM with a lot of amateur scouting experience, is part of things moving forward. 

I agree and also note the Penguins last 5 draft years. 

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007475.html

 

They've only had one player Calen Addison play games(12). It's a reminder that Pittsburgh is constantly filling there roster in other ways and they have had little focus or need for drafting recently. I would imagine this affects not only player development but the types of players drafted as well. Maybe more longshot picks? How much effort did they even put into scouting? Not to make excuses this hasn't looked great but check out 

 

from 2012 to 2015 they actually did not bad getting Olli Matta, Teddy Blueger, Oskar Sundqvist, Matt Murray, Tristan Jarry, Jake Guentzel, Kasperi Kapanen, and Daniel Sprong. They whiffed on Pouliot but we can appreciate how that can happen.  Anyways basically zero picks in the top 50 except Kapanen, and Matta, and only an average of about 5 picks per year. Most NHL'ers come from rounds 1 and sometimes 2.

 

So it's not all that bad there. Only one first rounder in the last 7 years. Like you I would hope someone with some amateur drafting pedigree is hired in addition but how much is drafting success based on the manager and how much is on the scouts themselves? I'm personally guessing our drafting approach and department will be completely different then the Penguins in quality and set-up.

[ShawnAntoski]

2 minutes ago, AV. said:

Maybe they're playing better because their bosses are no longer two guys with the communication and empathy skills of a cactus.

You seem to be intentionallly not recognizing, the importance of Coaching or what Boudreau has been doing.

[awalk]

This seems like a fantastic management team to me, on paper. Maybe I'm just so happy to not have Dimbo and Where'sbrod in charge. But let's. f-ing. go. Canucks.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I think the problem with the fanbase is that idea of being able to accept a rebuild. It still needs to happen in some capacity. This little run with Boudreau has given them hope things aren’t as bleak and that we are close which I think is not true. Our aspirations as an organization should be to become as successful as a team like Tampa Bay. When a few players go down they have players that come in and can fill holes. We don’t have that right now. If you compare the rosters we are nowhere close to that organization. I don’t want the team to just make the playoffs but to win a cup. That’s the ultimate goal. Anything less doesn’t mean much.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Canuckfanforlife82

[tas]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I know right? It's arguments like these that come before anything that's even done that make me wonder why I'm even here in the 1st place. Might as well just throw all logic out the window. In fact, why have a team even if this is how spoiled we're going to act. lol

 

yeah, it really seems that half the people here would prefer that the team fails so that they have an opportunity to rage about it and broadcast their ill-informed "wisdom" on the internet. 

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I get it and it was a general statement based on the end results, for both coaches.  If you want to get into the nitty gritty of finding some positives for Greens, tenure then I agree but JB wasn't going to fire after, Green after his the blip, that was his third season.

 

Not sure what you meant by re writing history but the way he ended, his tenure only confirmed his overall record.

The thing is, when you say that Benning hired the wrong coach you are literally referring to the beginning, not the end. If you agree with what I said earlier, then hopefully you realise that what you have said about hiring was perhaps the wrong way to phrasing what you meant. To say he "hired the wrong coach" is to say he was the wrong coach from the beginning. Given he wasn't the wrong coach from the beginning but only the wrong coach in the end, that's where the "rewriting history" comes into play.

 

I hope that paragraph wasn't too confusing and hopefully you understand where I'm coming from.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I agree and also note the Penguins last 5 draft years. 

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007475.html

 

They've only had one player Calen Addison play games(12). It's a reminder that Pittsburgh is constantly filling there roster in other ways and they have had little focus or need for drafting recently. I would imagine this affects not only player development but the types of players drafted as well. Maybe more longshot picks? How much effort did they even put into scouting? Not to make excuses this hasn't looked great but check out 

 

yea it doesn't look hot from an NHL games played pov, but when you click on some of the picks it does look like a lot of them are developing pretty well in college or Europe. 

 

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

from 2012 to 2015 they actually did not bad getting Olli Matta, Teddy Blueger, Oskar Sundqvist, Matt Murray, Tristan Jarry, Jake Guentzel, Kasperi Kapanen, and Daniel Sprong. They whiffed on Pouliot but we can appreciate how that can happen.  Anyways basically zero picks in the top 50 except Kapanen, and Matta, and only an average of about 5 picks per year. Most NHL'ers come from rounds 1 and sometimes 2.

 

So it's not all that bad there. Only one first rounder in the last 7 years. Like you I would hope someone with some amateur drafting pedigree is hired in addition but how much is drafting success based on the manager and how much is on the scouts themselves? I'm personally guessing our drafting approach and department will be completely different then the Penguins in quality and set-up.

It certainly sounds like there will be at least one more hire. 

[The Lock]

By the way, to anyone who might be thinking I'm 100% for Allvin, I'm neither for or against it. I'm all about seeing what comes out of it 1st. I also haven't answered the poll because I don't know the answer of "Yes" or "No".

[48MPHSlapShot]

28 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I don't have blind faith, I just like what I see in the people hired. I also don't see the basis for criticism yet, just based on having worked together. That seems kind of a silly thing to focus on, imo. Would we care if Yzerman brought along someone he worked well with?

The criticism is with the departments that the headed. If we brought aboard someone that Yzerman had worked with, and the records of the departments that this hypothetical person had headed were lackluster at best, you bet I'd question it.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

The criticism is with the departments that the headed. If we brought aboard someone that Yzerman had worked with, and the records of the departments that this hypothetical person had headed were lackluster at best, you bet I'd question it.

fair enough. It will be interesting to see how many of the Pits picks over the last 5 years start to make in on the big club. If that occurs, it would probably alleviate some of the angst on here. 

[AV.]

1 minute ago, ShawnAntoski said:

You seem to be intentionallly not recognizing, the importance of Coaching or what Boudreau has been doing.

Sure, coaching has helped but that's only taken the Canucks from a bottom 3 team to a playoff cusp team. 

Truth is, the players lost a ton of trust in their management after the events of October 2020 and matters became absolutely irreparable after the COVID debacle of March/April 2021.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, JM_ said:

fair enough. It will be interesting to see how many of the Pits picks over the last 5 years start to make in on the big club. If that occurs, it would probably alleviate some of the angst on here. 

I'd like that, but, despite popular belief, my experience following this league tells me that in more cases than not, you have a pretty good indication of what you have in a drafted player not too long after they're drafted.

[The Lock]

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

The criticism is with the departments that the headed. If we brought aboard someone that Yzerman had worked with, and the records of the departments that this hypothetical person had headed were lackluster at best, you bet I'd question it.

Record's not everything though. Benning had a great drafting record in Buffalo for example. It clearly didn't fully translate here.

 

There's going to be a lot of behind the scenes stuff that we'll never see that will likely have been the main considerations for why he was hired. This could literally be anything. Maybe Allvin proved to have a better mindset for GM'ing than drafting. Maybe JR just wanted a puppet. Maybe Allvin's shown to have a mind and opinions of his own and won't be a puppet. Maybe it's none of those things and something completely different. We don't know and a previous record's going to show none of that.

 

So if you're just basing this off a record.... is that really fair?

[Gawdzukes]

56 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

To paraphrase the late, great Meatloaf, "One out of three is....not great"

Maybe he meant not going with a well known former GM and more of a committee approach. That's funny though. 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

14 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah, I wonder what happened there with Darche. I was hoping he’s the guy the Canucks would hire. Would have been a massive move by JR. 

 

Instead of we get Allvin. He’s okay, I guess. Can’t really judge because he hasn’t started yet. 

 

Well we've never seen Allvin as the main man so I'm hopeful to see what he does but I have to admit, I was a little excited when Darche's name popped up last minute. 

I think I would've been a little less disappointed had the Darche rumours not leaked. 

 

I feel like we've all pretty much known it was going to be Allvin for a month now lol but the waiting and speculations with other names like Mellanby and Burke obviously made it a little hazy (glad it was Allvin over those two). 

[Analyst82]

Is there anywhere I can watch or listen to the conference? I know it's over now but I can't seem to find any links to watch the recorded conference. 

[khay]

20 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's a very difficult decision. He's (Miller) their best player, has more heart than anyone on the team, a guy who wants to win so badly.  But this team also needs at least one more Top 4 Dman.

 

From what I understand, JR and Co want to get faster. This has a Boeser trade written all over it. 

Yep, Boeser is likely gone. At 5-5.5 mil salary, I would keep him even if he is slow but he will be asking for 7 mil.

 

I wouldn't rule out trading both Boeser and Miller though.

 

Miller probably offers the fastest way towards a retool.