[Rumour] Canucks getting calls on Conor Garland

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

the w

the wings just got rid of hronek at 25.. so why would they consider garland?? trade away 25 year old that works for the timeline.. but they think they are not ready and then trade for a 27 year old?

Yzerman thoight SLO Mo could take over for Hronek. He was clearly wrong. 

[wai_lai416]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yzerman thoight SLO Mo could take over for Hronek. He was clearly wrong. 

take over? so what's detroit defence outside of seider and hronek? with both on the team it's not even that impressive so why would he get rid of him 

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

take over? so what's detroit defence outside of seider and hronek? with both on the team it's not even that impressive so why would he get rid of him 

The value of that 1st round pick was very high when we traded it 

NYI was looking like it could miss the playoffs, and that pick could have been a lottery pick 

 

I don’t think anyone expected NY to finish so strong, resulting in that 1st getting pushed so far down 

 

Yzerman was probably hoping for a much higher 1st rounder from the trade 

 

I don’t think he traded Hronek because he didn’t fit the window. If that were true why keep Larkin? 
 

he traded Hronek because Yzerman believes the D should all be 6’4 monsters, look at the D he’s drafting 

 

[mll]

7 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

We are probably being doomers and undervaluing our players as we usually do when the team sucks (we do the opposite when we're good)

 

thank god CDC doesnt make the trades

 

this is what redwings media thinks a fair proposal for garland looks like

 

A blogger.  Dumba at 6M.  Nylander to Minnesota who might not even have the cap space to complete their roster.  Former 1st rounder Schneider for a 3rd/4th round pick.  Are those really reasonable takes.

 

This is what he had to say on the cost to acquire Schneider out of NYR:  "In exchange for a third-pairing defender without a lot of offensive upside, a third or fourth-round pick seems reasonable. If the Rangers need a sweetener, the Red Wings could add a lower-end prospect who they aren’t as excited about."

 

Minnesota has 8M of cap space and a roster of only 15 and need to sign their starting goalie - their slogan is "grit 1st" where they want to play playoff style hockey all season and keep scoring low with an accent on defence.  He's proposing they add Nylander: 

"The Maple Leafs need a right-handed defender. Dumba has grit and offense to his game that could complement the Maple Leafs’ current roster. Coming off of a $6 million contract, it’s safe to say that he’ll command a similar cap on his next deal. Maybe Dumba’s UFA rights and Marco Rossi gets the deal done."

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by mll

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

The value of that 1st round pick was very high when we traded it 

NYI was looking like it could miss the playoffs, and that pick could have been a lottery pick 

 

I don’t think anyone expected NY to finish so strong, resulting in that 1st getting pushed so far down 

 

Yzerman was probably hoping for a much higher 1st rounder from the trade 

 

I don’t think he traded Hronek because he didn’t fit the window. If that were true why keep Larkin? 
 

he traded Hronek because Yzerman believes the D should all be 6’4 monsters, look at the D he’s drafting 

 

let's be real even if the islanders were to miss the playoff that pick will at best be within the 13-16 range.. hardly a "lottery" and it's protected anyways.. and if it gets pushed to next year.. everyone is just assuming well islanders is guaranteed to be bad so it'll be another lottery pick.. didn't we guaranteed the canucks would be better this year? Yzerman is more like Hronek is average at best defensively.. you can't win with a bunch of offensive defenceman that's is average to below average defence... that's what the canucks have 1 high end offensive defenceman with average defence and another above average defenceman with slightly below average defence.. both small too.. Yzerman prolly got rid of hronek because he's literally 1 or 2 bad hit from calling it a career and ya he's not wrong the hughes and hronek ain't going to move anyone parked in front of the net in the playoff.. where majority of the goals are scored. 

[Elias Pettersson]

12 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

let's be real even if the islanders were to miss the playoff that pick will at best be within the 13-16 range.. hardly a "lottery" and it's protected anyways.. and if it gets pushed to next year.. everyone is just assuming well islanders is guaranteed to be bad so it'll be another lottery pick.. didn't we guaranteed the canucks would be better this year? Yzerman is more like Hronek is average at best defensively.. you can't win with a bunch of offensive defenceman that's is average to below average defence... that's what the canucks have 1 high end offensive defenceman with average defence and another above average defenceman with slightly below average defence.. both small too.. Yzerman prolly got rid of hronek because he's literally 1 or 2 bad hit from calling it a career and ya he's not wrong the hughes and hronek ain't going to move anyone parked in front of the net in the playoff.. where majority of the goals are scored. 

Hronek is 35th among all Dmen (222 listed) in on ice expected GA per 60 minutes.  He's ahead of Jacob Slavin and Hampus Lindholm.  Quinn Hughes is 49th so in the upper 20% of all Dmen...

 

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats (moneypuck.com)

 

Hronek is not average defensively, he is above average and is also a very good offensive Dmen with a great shot.  He can play in all situations.  Also, as previously stated he did not receive a concussion after the Reaves hit, he played the next game, which shows his toughness as well.

 

Yzerman got rid of Hronek because he did not want to pay him...

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Yzerman got rid of Hronek because he did not want to pay him...

Can you source that for us?

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Can you source that for us?

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2023/03/red-wings-steve-yzerman-says-selling-most-viable-option-stresses-patience.html?outputType=amp

 

DETROIT – For the first time in Steve Yzerman’s four seasons as Detroit Red Wings general manager, his team was on the fringes of the playoff chase as the trade deadline approached, and he had a decision – stand pat or sell.

 

He traded key players Tyler Bertuzzi and Filip Hronek for draft picks and got rid of Jakub Vrana for what he could get.

 

Continuing to build for the future was more important than keeping the group intact and seeing what might happen down the stretch.

 

Yzerman explained his rationale on Friday, shortly after the trade deadline.

 

“We traded the guys we couldn’t sign or for whatever reason weren’t going to sign,” Yzerman said on his media Zoom call. “So, I say to our fanbase, I understand the frustration and disappointment. But if our ultimate goal is to compete with the best teams in the league, this is what I’m doing, and if it doesn’t work out, it’s on me.”

[hammertime]

17 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

The value of that 1st round pick was very high when we traded it 

NYI was looking like it could miss the playoffs, and that pick could have been a lottery pick 

 

The pick was top 12 protected. Honestly 12 vs 18 this year there are a bunch of great players. 

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, hammertime said:

The pick was top 12 protected. Honestly 12 vs 18 this year there are a bunch of great players. 

Yzerman was banking on the pick rolling over to 2024. That added huge value. Very smart move by Allvin. We try to get Hronek this summer with #18 and Yzerman goes elsewhere. We would have to use 11. And even then Yzermsn likely says no. He almost certainly keeps Hronek. The value of the pick was greatly diminished when it didn’t roll over to next draft as unprotected. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Alflives

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yzerman was banking on the pick rolling over to 2024. That added huge value. Very smart move by Allvin. We try to get Hronek this summer with #18 and Yzerman goes elsewhere. We would have to use 11. And even then Yzermsn likely says no. He almost certainly keeps Hronek. The value of the pick was greatly diminished when it didn’t roll over to next draft as unprotected. 

Yzerman didn’t want to pay Hronek and wasn’t going to re-sign him to an extension. So when Allvin found out about this he went after Hronek, a player he had been following for over a year. 
 

Yzerman wanted picks so we had the NYI pick we could dangle for him. No way we were going to trade our pick as it was a lottery pick. So we threw in a 2nd as well and got a 4th back. We paid less for Hronek than Philly paid for Ristolainen. 
 

Hronek is a borderline top pairing RHD and is only 25. It was a great trade for us really.  The chances of us getting an equivalent type player with the NYI pick is very small. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[chon derry]

Detroit’s window of opportunity is further down the road than ours or anyone else’s so the pick fits better than hroneks age would be when their competing 

[Alflives]

57 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2023/03/red-wings-steve-yzerman-says-selling-most-viable-option-stresses-patience.html?outputType=amp

 

DETROIT – For the first time in Steve Yzerman’s four seasons as Detroit Red Wings general manager, his team was on the fringes of the playoff chase as the trade deadline approached, and he had a decision – stand pat or sell.

 

He traded key players Tyler Bertuzzi and Filip Hronek for draft picks and got rid of Jakub Vrana for what he could get.

 

Continuing to build for the future was more important than keeping the group intact and seeing what might happen down the stretch.

 

Yzerman explained his rationale on Friday, shortly after the trade deadline.

 

“We traded the guys we couldn’t sign or for whatever reason weren’t going to sign,” Yzerman said on his media Zoom call. “So, I say to our fanbase, I understand the frustration and disappointment. But if our ultimate goal is to compete with the best teams in the league, this is what I’m doing, and if it doesn’t work out, it’s on me.”

And it didn’t work out. Trading a 25 year old, high end, right shot D was a huge mistake. The Wings quickly found out their club greatly missed Hronek. Yes, Stevie, it’s on you.

[wai_lai416]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Hronek is 35th among all Dmen (222 listed) in on ice expected GA per 60 minutes.  He's ahead of Jacob Slavin and Hampus Lindholm.  Quinn Hughes is 49th so in the upper 20% of all Dmen...

 

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats (moneypuck.com)

 

Hronek is not average defensively, he is above average and is also a very good offensive Dmen with a great shot.  He can play in all situations.  Also, as previously stated he did not receive a concussion after the Reaves hit, he played the next game, which shows his toughness as well.

 

Yzerman got rid of Hronek because he did not want to pay him...

sure you can say yzerman got rid of Hronek because he didn't want to pay him.. but they were in the middle of a "playoff" hunt literally just 1 or 2 points out and trading Hronek whos still signed beyond the year and also a "rfa" makes no sense if their reasoning to trade him was we didn't want to pay him. detroit are not in cap trouble. if you are comparing every single defenceman on every single team.. then i guess they are well above average. i'm basing it on there's 32 teams theres' 64 top pairing defenceman out there.. they are probably both in the low 30s+. again taking a hit that is more than likely will result in a concussion and then playing the next game means absolutely nothing. look at tua in the NFL? he took a hit "passed" the concussion test and came right back to play and only to be concussed again. still doesnt change the narrative he had a concussion before and he took another huge blow to the head that may or may not lead to concussion but he's definitely will be more suceptible to them than others. 

 

also how willing is he to sign long term in vancouver if say he doesn't get the top pairing assignment nor any pp1 time with qh anchored there.. reason i say this is next season will have a huge impact on his contract. if his numbers dropped because he's no longer getting the top pairing mins or PP mins he normally would get on another team they'll try to offer him less. or is he going to think to himself he can and will make more playing elsewhere? 

[mll]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yzerman was banking on the pick rolling over to 2024. That added huge value. Very smart move by Allvin. We try to get Hronek this summer with #18 and Yzerman goes elsewhere. We would have to use 11. And even then Yzermsn likely says no. He almost certainly keeps Hronek. The value of the pick was greatly diminished when it didn’t roll over to next draft as unprotected. 

17th not 18th.  It was only top-12 protected - Detroit more likely banking on the pick to be this year.  NYI just added Horvat and wasn't expected to slip down further - ie no roll over.  Picking this year is also 1 year closer in age to Larkin, Seider etc.  

[mll]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Hronek is 35th among all Dmen (222 listed) in on ice expected GA per 60 minutes.  He's ahead of Jacob Slavin and Hampus Lindholm.  Quinn Hughes is 49th so in the upper 20% of all Dmen...

 

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats (moneypuck.com)

 

Hronek is not average defensively, he is above average and is also a very good offensive Dmen with a great shot.  He can play in all situations.  Also, as previously stated he did not receive a concussion after the Reaves hit, he played the next game, which shows his toughness as well.

 

Yzerman got rid of Hronek because he did not want to pay him...

Brad Hunt is 3rd, Calen Addison is 4th -  min 400 min all situations. Just shows how misleading that stat can be.  Both are sheltered 3rd pairing Ds.   Wild openly talk of Addison's shortcomings defensively - was healthy scratched to end the season because of his inability to play defence.   

 

A 4th line grinder is hardly ever going to create offensive opportunities at the same rate as say McDavid/Pettersson.  Goals against are also going to be influenced by level of competition.  If a player hardly creates offence - the expected goals against for the players defending against him are going to be low and it's more a factor of the opponent than the defender.  

 

Hronek played lesser competition than Slavin and even Seider on his own team.   Natural Stat Trick allows you to see who they played against - it's under their "player index" where you can select opponents.  I find convenient to 1st sort by "time with" (click on the column) and then by opponents "VS teams".  It then groups by team and sorts by increasing/decreasing TOI.  

 

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&playerid=8479425&sit=5v5&stype=2&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=o

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by mll

[Alflives]

5 hours ago, mll said:

Brad Hunt is 3rd, Calen Addison is 4th -  min 400 min all situations. Just shows how misleading that stat can be.  Both are sheltered 3rd pairing Ds.   Wild openly talk of Addison's shortcomings defensively - was healthy scratched to end the season because of his inability to play defence.   

 

A 4th line grinder is hardly ever going to create offensive opportunities at the same rate as say McDavid/Pettersson.  Goals against are also going to be influenced by level of competition.  If a player hardly creates offence - the expected goals against for the players defending against him are going to be low and it's more a factor of the opponent than the defender.  

 

Hronek played lesser competition than Slavin and even Seider on his own team.   Natural Stat Trick allows you to see who they played against - it's under their "player index" where you can select opponents.  I find convenient to 1st sort by "time with" (click on the column) and then by opponents "VS teams".  It then groups by team and sorts by increasing/decreasing TOI.  

 

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&playerid=8479425&sit=5v5&stype=2&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=o

 

Hronek is awesome. The fact is the Wings did crappy when he went out. Yzerman made a mistake trading him to us. He thought SLO Mo could play that role and was wrong. Like he said, “it’s on him”. 
We are great! M-5 is great! 
 

[D-Money]

12 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure you can say yzerman got rid of Hronek because he didn't want to pay him.. but they were in the middle of a "playoff" hunt literally just 1 or 2 points out and trading Hronek whos still signed beyond the year and also a "rfa" makes no sense if their reasoning to trade him was we didn't want to pay him. detroit are not in cap trouble. if you are comparing every single defenceman on every single team.. then i guess they are well above average. i'm basing it on there's 32 teams theres' 64 top pairing defenceman out there.. they are probably both in the low 30s+. again taking a hit that is more than likely will result in a concussion and then playing the next game means absolutely nothing. look at tua in the NFL? he took a hit "passed" the concussion test and came right back to play and only to be concussed again. still doesnt change the narrative he had a concussion before and he took another huge blow to the head that may or may not lead to concussion but he's definitely will be more suceptible to them than others. 

 

also how willing is he to sign long term in vancouver if say he doesn't get the top pairing assignment nor any pp1 time with qh anchored there.. reason i say this is next season will have a huge impact on his contract. if his numbers dropped because he's no longer getting the top pairing mins or PP mins he normally would get on another team they'll try to offer him less. or is he going to think to himself he can and will make more playing elsewhere? 

Hronek was injured, so he wasn’t going to be available for them if they kept him or not. And they also just got demolished by the Senators, so Yzerman publicly stated the team wasn’t ready to compete yet.

 

There is a lot of data out there that suggests Hronek is a very good defenseman. He could be exactly what this team needs: someone who can anchor the 2nd pair, move the puck efficiently, and help the team not get caved in whenever Hughes is on the bench. I’m cautiously optimistic.

 

As for the price to acquire him, it doesn’t seem much more than what we paid for Gudbranson. The same data suggested he was not good - and it proved to be right. And as for the expected cost to retain him, I’d rather the team pay a very good D-man $6M than Myers.

[Ted Lasso]

18 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure you can say yzerman got rid of Hronek because he didn't want to pay him.. but they were in the middle of a "playoff" hunt literally just 1 or 2 points out and trading Hronek whos still signed beyond the year and also a "rfa" makes no sense if their reasoning to trade him was we didn't want to pay him. detroit are not in cap trouble. if you are comparing every single defenceman on every single team.. then i guess they are well above average. i'm basing it on there's 32 teams theres' 64 top pairing defenceman out there.. they are probably both in the low 30s+. again taking a hit that is more than likely will result in a concussion and then playing the next game means absolutely nothing. look at tua in the NFL? he took a hit "passed" the concussion test and came right back to play and only to be concussed again. still doesnt change the narrative he had a concussion before and he took another huge blow to the head that may or may not lead to concussion but he's definitely will be more suceptible to them than others. 

 

also how willing is he to sign long term in vancouver if say he doesn't get the top pairing assignment nor any pp1 time with qh anchored there.. reason i say this is next season will have a huge impact on his contract. if his numbers dropped because he's no longer getting the top pairing mins or PP mins he normally would get on another team they'll try to offer him less. or is he going to think to himself he can and will make more playing elsewhere? 

[Ghostsof1915]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:31 PM, Canucks Curse said:

no thanks

Dream on Montreal.