[Rumour] Canucks getting calls on Conor Garland

[NuckLuck19]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Goodrow has a 15 team no trade list.  Good bet that all Canadian teams on that list.

He's from Toronto, I would be surprised if playing in all of Canada is an issue.

 

[ilduce39]

Old Harm Dayal just as bamboozled as I am on the Van Cast regarding us opening up space this year.  
 

If you’re giving up a winger - you’re likely doing so at a loss vs their value and need a plan to use that space more effectively.  Is that even possible in UFA?
 

Then re: Myers.  You can’t really wait for that bonus because who needs the cap space that close to the season?  
 

Wish I had heard him talk a little more about player for player trades. That’s the path where I see the best chance of success.

[NuckLuck19]

4 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Old Harm Dayal just as bamboozled as I am on the Van Cast regarding us opening up space this year.  
 

If you’re giving up a winger - you’re likely doing so at a loss vs their value and need a plan to use that space more effectively.  Is that even possible in UFA?
 

Then re: Myers.  You can’t really wait for that bonus because who needs the cap space that close to the season?  
 

Wish I had heard him talk a little more about player for player trades. That’s the path where I see the best chance of success.

You can make a trade prior and make it effective post bonus. They don't have to wait till Sept 1 to make the trade. Harm is showing his inexperience. You basically paper a deal and sign it post bonus. Verbal contracts are enforceable if someone tries to be a weasel, and having a deal papered, is enough proof a deal was agreed to. And that ignores how bad it would look for a GM to agree than walk away after a deal is agreed to.

Edited June 13, 2023 by NuckLuck19

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, NuckLuck19 said:

I would argue that many think there are still flat cap issues because 'in season' there were. If you look at how many trades happened in season there were very few for that reason (and alot of those trades were us!).

However, in the offseason, those issues decrease. Teams don't resign players, they may not get a UFA they want etc. In season people are up against the cap, off season cap room opens. Yes its not as good as a 5 mil cap increase but its also not as bad as in season because of player movement.

 

I 1000% believe teams are holding us hostage because they want to take advantage of our desire to improve THIS season. We aren't in cap hell, we can make minor moves and be compliant. That's why I am sure post Myers bonus, and post the draft and UFA season, teams will come back to us and say ok let's give you a 3rd for Garland....he's performing at a top 6 clip (albeit lower end) at a reasonable hit...its all the 'game' right now. I hope management is patient enough to wait it out. Nothing wrong with running it back for one more year. Let's not make a Benning error here

We have to be patient.   That means we won't be active in the free agent market.   We already have done the work to create the lineup next year.   I'm not at all holding my breath on Myers though.   Unless he's bought out, which doesn't show patience either,  I'm sure he's on the opening night roster.    CHI sand ARI will have already done their cap dump trades by the time his bonus is paid - and all he has to do is make sure teams that can afford him, are not on his list.   So easy to do.    Myers at or near the TDL, and that's only IF we aren't in the playoffs.    Hope for our teams sake - Tyler Minors is with us come post season.   It would mean things worked out for us.    Myers can also consider 3rd party teams as well.   And keep them off his list.     The way that deal was set up was brilliant.   

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, NuckLuck19 said:

You can make a trade prior and make it effective post bonus. They don't have to wait till Sept 1 to make the trade. Harm is showing his inexperience. You basically paper a deal and sign it post bonus. Verbal contracts are enforceable if someone tries to be a weasel, and having a deal papered, is enough proof a deal was agreed to. And that ignores how bad it would look for a GM to agree than walk away after a deal is agreed to.

Care to make a friendly bet that Myers is on the opening lineup?   Unless he's bought out.   Which is so stupid IMO, total Benning move to push the problem away another year.   Who the heck is he going to?   A bubble playoff team?   Even with 50% retention... man the team must be pretty desperate to get rid of him.    Who are we going to get to replace his minutes at 3 million after the UFA season is over?    Even if we had the cash for free agency.   Schenn I suppose.   

 

One thing we could do is go over the cap and then try and fix things before the season starts. 

 

The Canucks won't be doing much of anything this off season unless the league gives every team a free buyout.   And not sure the NHLPA will want that either.    Finally caught up to escrow almost.   Why add a huge pile to it.    Still given how many of the leagues big money teams are up against the cap... won't be surprised at all if they gave every team a free buyout, that doesn't go against the cap.   Last two we got, went to Booth and Ballard, and that was a result of the 2009 financial crisis.   Players wanted salaries to go up.   Sure they are getting a bit fed up now as well.   It would solve a ton of problems league wide.   

Edited June 13, 2023 by IBatch

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Then re: Myers.  You can’t really wait for that bonus because who needs the cap space that close to the season?  

 

There's a few scenarios... The already mentioned pre arranged trade for example. A team may have a RD injury as well. There's also usually some UFAs still hanging around and teams looking to move players they'd prefer not to lose on waivers for nothing. There will also likely be a few teams looking to move guys to get cap compliant still.

 

There's also the fact that Poolman and Pearson's LTIR are just shy of Myers $6m hit. Moving him in September might mean we're banking cap space until the TDL instead of operating in LTIR all year.

 

So there are in fact reasons

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

We have to be patient.   That means we won't be active in the free agent market.   We already have done the work to create the lineup next year.   I'm not at all holding my breath on Myers though.   Unless he's bought out, which doesn't show patience either,  I'm sure he's on the opening night roster.    CHI sand ARI will have already done their cap dump trades by the time his bonus is paid - and all he has to do is make sure teams that can afford him, are not on his list.   So easy to do.    Myers at or near the TDL, and that's only IF we aren't in the playoffs.    Hope for our teams sake - Tyler Minors is with us come post season.   It would mean things worked out for us.    Myers can also consider 3rd party teams as well.   And keep them off his list.     The way that deal was set up was brilliant.   

His contact is buyout proof. It actually costs us more cap to buy him out and replace him with a league min player than just keep him. He's not getting bought out.

 

As for his NTC and bottom teams. We could simply waive him and they could claim him FWIW. It's not as much of a road block as you're making out to be.

 

But yes, the TDL is the most likely time he gets moved.

[IBatch]

29 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

There's a few scenarios... The already mentioned pre arranged trade for example. A team may have a RD injury as well. There's also usually some UFAs still hanging around and teams looking to move players they'd prefer not to lose on waivers for nothing. There will also likely be a few teams looking to move guys to get cap compliant still.

 

There's also the fact that Poolman and Pearson's LTIR are just shy of Myers $6m hit. Moving him in September might mean we're banking cap space until the TDL instead of operating in LTIR all year.

 

So there are in fact reasons

 

His contact is buyout proof. It actually costs us more cap to buy him out and replace him with a league min player than just keep him. He's not getting bought out.

 

As for his NTC and bottom teams. We could simply waive him and they could claim him FWIW. It's not as much of a road block as you're making out to be.

 

But yes, the TDL is the most likely time he gets moved.

Thanks aGENT.  Have read that before ...  not sure how it works, but my understanding it's 2/3 of owed salary times double the years.   So that makes absolute sense.   I get confused if it's cap hit or salary owed - salary owed correct?   Could they not buy him out before his bonus?  If that's the case it's 6 million times 2/3 over two seasons...

Edited June 13, 2023 by IBatch

[ilduce39]

35 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

There's a few scenarios... The already mentioned pre arranged trade for example. A team may have a RD injury as well. There's also usually some UFAs still hanging around and teams looking to move players they'd prefer not to lose on waivers for nothing. There will also likely be a few teams looking to move guys to get cap compliant still.

 

There's also the fact that Poolman and Pearson's LTIR are just shy of Myers $6m hit. Moving him in September might mean we're banking cap space until the TDL instead of operating in LTIR all year.

 

So there are in fact reasons

 

His contact is buyout proof. It actually costs us more cap to buy him out and replace him with a league min player than just keep him. He's not getting bought out.

 

As for his NTC and bottom teams. We could simply waive him and they could claim him FWIW. It's not as much of a road block as you're making out to be.

 

But yes, the TDL is the most likely time he gets moved.

I hear you - and that could make sense.

 

From a genuine curiosity standpoint: does the team think so lowly of Myers that they’d move him for meagre assets (vs deadline trade) and LTIR space vs having him in the lineup?  I’d doubt that with a healthy Bear.  

With Bear in doubt (or not even being signed) I think the safe bet is Myers as a Canuck until the TDL.  We’re a team with playoff aspirations and they’re going to prioritize the warm body.  I’ll be happy to be wrong, though.  
 

Here’s to some handshakes and winks between GMs and UFAs.  Might be more than normal with so many teams strapped.

 

9 hours ago, NuckLuck19 said:

You can make a trade prior and make it effective post bonus. They don't have to wait till Sept 1 to make the trade. Harm is showing his inexperience. You basically paper a deal and sign it post bonus. Verbal contracts are enforceable if someone tries to be a weasel, and having a deal papered, is enough proof a deal was agreed to. And that ignores how bad it would look for a GM to agree than walk away after a deal is agreed to.

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Thanks aGENT.  Have read that before ...  not sure how it works, but my understanding it's 2/3 of owed salary times double the years.   So that makes absolute sense.   I get confused if it's cap hit or salary owed - salary owed correct?   Could they not buy him out before his bonus?  If that's the case it's 6 million times 2/3 over two seasons...

It's because of the bonus. That HAS to be paid. You basically only get to buy out the $1m salary at 2/3, which means if you buy him out, you're paying him the $5m bonus +2/3 of $1m. Or $5.666m. Once you factor in even a league minimum $750k replacement...

 

Capfriendly had a buyout calculator FWIW.

[mll]

11 hours ago, NuckLuck19 said:

You can make a trade prior and make it effective post bonus. They don't have to wait till Sept 1 to make the trade. Harm is showing his inexperience. You basically paper a deal and sign it post bonus. Verbal contracts are enforceable if someone tries to be a weasel, and having a deal papered, is enough proof a deal was agreed to. And that ignores how bad it would look for a GM to agree than walk away after a deal is agreed to.

For any deal to be binding it has to be filed with Central Registry.   They can have a handshake agreement but nothing says that the other team doesn't turn around and asks for an additional asset or walks away.  

 

Just this TDL CBJ was convinced that they had a deal with Boston for Gavrikov and even held him out of the lineup as Boston apparently told them that they 1st had to sort their cap situation.  Boston has a different recollection - they think they were just kicking tires and once Orlov became available traded for him instead.  CBJ then had to scramble to find a new trade partner.  

 

15 September is the bonus payment.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mll said:

For any deal to be binding it has to be filed with Central Registry.   They can have a handshake agreement but nothing says that the other team doesn't turn around and asks for an additional asset or walks away.  

 

Just this TDL CBJ was convinced that they had a deal with Boston for Gavrikov and even held him out of the lineup as Boston apparently told them that they 1st had to sort their cap situation.  Boston has a different recollection - they think they were just kicking tires and once Orlov became available traded for him instead.  CBJ then had to scramble to find a new trade partner.  

 

15 September is the bonus payment.  

On the other hand, free agents sign minutes after the free agency opens, so the wink wink nudge nudge deals are alive and well. 

[Jayinblack]

Serious question.... can NHL trades still include cash ?    Cause if so then trade Myers + $5M cash to a team that only wants to pay $1M and doesn't mind the $6M cap hit

[Chickenspear]

5 minutes ago, Jayinblack said:

Serious question.... can NHL trades still include cash ?    Cause if so then trade Myers + $5M cash to a team that only wants to pay $1M and doesn't mind the $6M cap hit

No.

[BPA]

Can the Canucks trade Myers in July but also have in the trade agreement that Canucks will pay for the signing bonus in September?

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

Can the Canucks trade Myers in July but also have in the trade agreement that Canucks will pay for the signing bonus in September?

No 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Thanks aGENT.  Have read that before ...  not sure how it works, but my understanding it's 2/3 of owed salary times double the years.   So that makes absolute sense.   I get confused if it's cap hit or salary owed - salary owed correct?   Could they not buy him out before his bonus?  If that's the case it's 6 million times 2/3 over two seasons...

Myers contract is buyout proof.  His cap hit for 2023 is $5,333,334...

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (VAN)
2023-24	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$5,000,000	$333,334	$5,333,334	$666,666	$5,333,334
2024-25	$0	$0	$0	$333,334	$333,334	-$333,334	$333,334
TOTAL	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$5,000,000	$666,667	$5,666,667	$333,333	$5,666,668

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Myers contract is buyout proof.  His cap hit for 2023 is $5,333,334...

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (VAN)
2023-24	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$5,000,000	$333,334	$5,333,334	$666,666	$5,333,334
2024-25	$0	$0	$0	$333,334	$333,334	-$333,334	$333,334
TOTAL	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$5,000,000	$666,667	$5,666,667	$333,333	$5,666,668

By the time pay league minimum for replacement it costs us more than paying him in the minors.

[mll]

7 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

On the other hand, free agents sign minutes after the free agency opens, so the wink wink nudge nudge deals are alive and well. 

Nothing is valid till it's filed with Central Registry.  Till then anyone can back out from either signing a contract or finalising a trade. Just last year Carolina thought they had Marchment in free agency but he backed out at the last second to sign with Dallas instead.  

 

They can agree on a deal but come mid-September the other team could back out or ask for more assets.  A roster is a minimum of 20 players so there's no way to send 6M worth of contracts to the AHL to become cap compliant.  Buried cap hit is 1.15M this coming season.  It's a risk to spend that cap space before his contract is moved. 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

Nothing is valid till it's filed with Central Registry.  Till then anyone can back out from either signing a contract or finalising a trade. Just last year Carolina thought they had Marchment in free agency but he backed out at the last second to sign with Dallas instead.  

 

They can agree on a deal but come mid-September the other team could back out or ask for more assets.  A roster is a minimum of 20 players so there's no way to send 6M worth of contracts to the AHL to become cap compliant.  Buried cap hit is 1.15M this coming season.  It's a risk to spend that cap space before his contract is moved. 

 

For sure, however sending his deal out before the season starts would be a perfect way to get out of LTIR. We have 5.75 mil between Poolman and Pearson, so if we manage to be let's say 5.5 mil over the cap and in LTIR, then moving Myers out last second means that we get out of LTIR and are able to bank space this season. 

 

That would be huge for this franchise, I can't remember the last season when we were under the cap. 

[snowman955]

I kind of fell onto the Nashville rumour. The Canucks trade  11oa for Nashville 15oa. which was mentioned with the Nashville 2nd round 2023 46th oa.

 

I would add Garland for Nashvilles 2oa in 2024. From what I have an understanding 2024 is a deep Defensive Draft. Nashville has 3 2nd rounders.

 

Not that its feasable,but Nashville wants to move to 11th overall.