PuckFather Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 In a nutshell, Sam Bennett + 2022 6th Round pick + 2022 1st round pick + 2024 5th Round pick + Emil Heinamen for Tyler Toffoli + 2022 2nd round pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 53 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Exactly the point I made in the post you just quoted (although a one-for-one top rhd who is only 26 fits my bill, but I was thinking more of a similar age to Miller of 29/30, which I wouldn't do). Ya. 26 year old max. Really, this all boils down to the misses with OJ and Jake and the organizations inability to draft and develop D. I don't really include Hughes as that was a no brainer, and still can't believe he dropped to us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, PuckFather said: In a nutshell, Sam Bennett + 2022 6th Round pick + 2022 1st round pick + 2024 5th Round pick + Emil Heinamen for Tyler Toffoli + 2022 2nd round pick Not bad and they did well with Sam B. We held on to Jake till he was worthless. At least recovered a couple players with upside for OJ. Really liking Lammikko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Remember Clendenning. I do. A 2nd rounder who played under 100 games in the NHL. On average only 34% of 2nd round picks go on to play more then 100 games. Meaning that his career statistically followed it's most likely trajectory of playing less then 100 games. Those same statistics can be applied to Schneider who statistically has 74% of chance of playing more then 100 games. A 5th round statistically has a 15% chance of playing over 100 games. There are going to be outliers in every statistic, but these are the numbers based off a 10 year period. But based off those numbers, I'd definitely be willing to pay more for a 74% chance then a 15%. I will clarify that these numbers are from the drafts between 2000-2010 and the article was written a couple years ago, so it could be different sets of numbers as time goes on, but I reckon it's a pretty fair baseline. Edited February 14, 2022 by Shayster007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Damn signing virtanen over toffoli hurts even more now.. coulda gotten a 1st out of tofu even if we sucked.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 23 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: I do. A 2nd rounder who played under 100 games in the NHL. On average only 34% of 2nd round picks go on to play more then 100 games. Meaning that his career statistically followed it's most likely trajectory of playing less then 100 games. Those same statistics can be applied to Schneider who statistically has 74% of chance of playing more then 100 games. A 5th round statistically has a 15% chance of playing over 100 games. There are going to be outliers in every statistic, but these are the numbers based off a 10 year period. But based off those numbers, I'd definitely be willing to pay more for a 74% chance then a 15%. I will clarify that these numbers are from the drafts between 2000-2010 and the article was written a couple years ago, so it could be different sets of numbers as time goes on, but I reckon it's a pretty fair baseline. Yet, you're using draft pedigree as your baseline. Clendenning was a near .8 ppg average player in the AHL drafted high 2nd round RHD and....? My point still stands. Until these kids have played significant seasons, their potential is equal and almost all of it is based on draft pedigree. Which, as we saw with Juolevi and Virtanen is...worthless. The need for this fan base to absolutely trash our own prospects while lauding others based on the exact same metrics is almost nauseatingly predictable. No I do not mean you, I mean in general. I stand by my statement. Schneider has as much chance of being a Stuart as he does a Burns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Yet, you're using draft pedigree as your baseline. Clendenning was a near .8 ppg average player in the AHL drafted high 2nd round RHD and....? My point still stands. Until these kids have played significant seasons, their potential is equal and almost all of it is based on draft pedigree. Which, as we saw with Juolevi and Virtanen is...worthless. The need for this fan base to absolutely trash our own prospects while lauding others based on the exact same metrics is almost nauseatingly predictable. No I do not mean you, I mean in general. I stand by my statement. Schneider has as much chance of being a Stuart as he does a Burns. Yes, draft pedagree is a very fair way of judging a players potential, peticularly in a case like you're presenting where all things can look equal. It's the accumulation of numerous professionals who made the choice based off of years of work. I stand by my assessment of the statistics I layed out. You by no means have to agree with it, but I simply can't agree with you saying a 5th rounder has the same intrinsic value as a 1st rounder like in the case we are currently discussing. I sincerely don't think any gm in the league would currently trade Schneider for Rathbone 1 for 1. I think if someone offered Myrenberg for Schneider they would be laughed out of the building. So I just can't see how their value can be equal. Myrenberg could easily be the next Forsling and be an awesome player, but there is a much higher chance he never plays meaningful NHL games. Edited February 15, 2022 by Shayster007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe Knows Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Would have loved to have him, but not at that price ...Ok for Cal but too steep for us...But Still Oh F&#K!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Thanks Cowgary! Miller = -Blue chip prospect -3rd line / #4/5 guy -1st -random toss in pick or player Starting point, Now it can be a bidding war. Imagine we say eff it and retain 50% for another 1st ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 28 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: Yes, draft pedagree is a very fair way of judging a players potential, peticularly in a case like you're presenting where all things can look equal. It's the accumulation of numerous professionals who made the choice based off of years of work. I stand by my assessment of the statistics I layed out. You by no means have to agree with it, but I simply can't agree with you saying a 5th rounder has the same intrinsic value as a 1st rounder like in the case we are currently discussing. I sincerely don't think any gm in the league would currently trade Schneider for Rathbone 1 for 1. I think if someone offered Myrenberg for Schneider they would be laughed out of the building. So I just can't see how their value can be equal. Myrenberg could easily be the next Forsling and be an awesome player, but there is a much higher chance he never plays meaningful NHL games. The top 15 every single year is littered with handfuls or more of players that buck that trend happily. We'll agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Neilsons Towel Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Top Sven Baercheese said: Hurts that we gave him up for nothing Especially since he fit in so well here. I’ve defended a lot of what Benning did during his tenure here, a lot of positives, but letting Toffoli go was a major L. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I have been wondering who has picked up on this and thought it note worthy............... A lot of times during proposals, people will spout out how teams never sign and then trade players Well Toffoli has played a total of 89 games with Montreal before being traded Do you think Montreal is worried about never getting another free agent? I hardly doubt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 11 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Do you think Montreal is worried about never getting another free agent? Right now they're worried about winning a game, everything's relative to your own situation. They're bottom feeders who likely haven't even hit rock bottom yet, we're supposed to be a middling team with potential to get better sooner rather than later, totally different scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovalchuk Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 7 hours ago, King Heffy said: I mean the rest of their top six aren't real men. Still way too many gutless cowards in that group to expect any kind of playoff success. How come basically every one of your posts you are calling someone a gutless coward, a cancer, a pathetic person etc...? You sound extremely miserable and petty 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovalchuk Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 hours ago, PuckFather said: In a nutshell, Sam Bennett + 2022 6th Round pick + 2022 1st round pick + 2024 5th Round pick + Emil Heinamen for Tyler Toffoli + 2022 2nd round pick Bennet really broke out this year but then again it seems like anybody playing for the panthers right now is breaking out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 25 minutes ago, Fanuck said: Right now they're worried about winning a game, everything's relative to your own situation. They're bottom feeders who likely haven't even hit rock bottom yet, we're supposed to be a middling team with potential to get better sooner rather than later, totally different scenarios. Bottom will happen when they get bumped out of the top 3 for draft picks by us winning the lottery and then Benning stripping MTL of the NHL draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Dear Calgary, The bidding for Brock Boeser starts at your 2023 1st and 2nd Rounder, And your 1st rounder in 2024. Step right this way! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 18 minutes ago, Kovalchuk said: How come basically every one of your posts you are calling someone a gutless coward, a cancer, a pathetic person etc...? You sound extremely miserable and petty Name one Calgary forward other than Toffoli who doesn't fit that description. If me calling out that classless organization offends you, feel free to go to your safe space at Calgarypuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovalchuk Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Name one Calgary forward other than Toffoli who doesn't fit that description. If me calling out that classless organization offends you, feel free to go to your safe space at Calgarypuck. I searched your post history with the keyword:coward and there is literally 4 pages full of you calling people "gutless cowards". It's actually kind of psychotic. Just relax a bit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kovalchuk said: I searched your post history with the keyword:coward and there is literally 4 pages full of you calling people "gutless cowards". It's actually kind of psychotic. Just relax a bit You seem a little too interested in me there. I'm flattered, but you don't seem like my type. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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