[Discussion] If we trade some big pieces at TDL, what is your ideal plan after?

[BigTramFan]

Apologies if this is a repeat of another thread, but I couldn't see one talking about the overall plan and direction that different CDC'ers would like to take.

 

Hypothetical...Let's say Allvin has been doing his due diligence talking with Miller and Boeser...and it is apparent that Miller won't resign in VAN and Boeser wants something like his QO of $7.5m. Allvin might end up trading both of these guys away at the 2022 TDL for future pieces, mostly young prospects and picks.

 

So that leaves us with some big holes in our top 6, plenty of cap space, and maybe still work to do to improve our D (depending on trade returns).

 

If that happened, what would you like to see Allvin do with the roster after trading these two guys???

 

Bearing in mind we have probably hit the prime years of Demko and Horvat. And EP and QH may be a couple of years from hitting their prime.

 

Do you want us to sign some UFAs for longer term so that the team remains competitive enough to make the playoffs next season and even contend within 2 years?

 

Should we be taking cap dumps on along with draft picks to restock the cupboard?

 

Do you want us to focus on drafting and developing from within? And if so, when could we get back to the playoffs?

 

Do you want to see more pieces moved out a proper rebuild done on this team? 

 

Just interested to see where people sit on this one...

Edited March 8, 2022 by BigTramFan

[Phil_314]

IF we sign UFAs I think it shouldn't be for term (unless there's a unicorn RHD who can help with our problems -- since our top necessity roles are already filled (top C, top D, top G, couple of pricey forwards and D) we shouldn't spend too much, otherwise we might get "elite depth" problems e.g. getting some Roussel/ Myers type who's really overpaid for the role but we do so because we're desperate and because of market inflation).  We should sign for hungry younger guys who are eager to prove themselves, not more pricey vets.  Optimally no signings besides a defensive 3rd C.

I don't see how we're in a position to take on cap dumps; even if we traded Miller and Boeser, the returns we hope to get will at least cost a couple million, so we don't really have that much to play around with, so unless there's a "Marc Staal to Detroit for 1 year" dump which actually proves serviceable, I say we shouldn't take it.

Developing internally definitely needs to be a big part of the game plan -- keep Podkolzin in the top-6, probably Hoglander too, and retain Martin for a couple years for cheap.  Beyond that, play and recoup value for Hamonic/ Poolman/ Dickinson, trade Motte and Halak. 

 

[Rabbit]

I guess Canucks would trade Boeser, Poolman, Dickson, Halak, might be JT if he demands big cap.

 

Bring up Martin as back-up goalie.

Keep Pod, Hog, Pearson, Bo, Garson, JT( Assumed his cap fits Canucks) as top six.

Keep the 4th line.

For the 3rd line, Chiasson will be okay if the coach team can help him to improve. EP40 as 3C,

Just need to sign a UFA for the 3rd line.

For D, we have Hughes, Myers, Shenn, just need to sign one RD and bring up some prospects.

 

I think this line-up could be the payoff team, see what is the pick-ups could help for the future.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'd rather not trade either, qualify Boeser and make a big decision on Miller at next year's TDL. If we're in a playoff spot, keep Miller and hope he resigns (assuming we're much more of a winning team), use him for a playoff run at the least. If we miss this year's playoffs and still suck next year somehow (to be honest I doubt it the way we've played under Bruce) then absolutely, blow it up and start with Miller.

 

We're playing at 0.68 hockey under Bruce though, that'd be good for 5th in the league. You don't blow up a top-5 NHL team. Carolina aren't looking to trade their top line center, why should we? Even if we miss this year's playoffs I'd chalk it up to the deep hole Green left us (unless we start sucking again under Bruce) and see what the squad can do next year all together under a full off-season with Bruce and only then, decide Miller's fate. I doubt he'd want a move if we continue playing 0.65 hockey for the next 12 months though.

[eeeeergh]

2 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Apologies if this is a repeat of another thread, but I couldn't see one talking about the overall plan and direction that different CDC'ers would like to take.

 

Hypothetical...Let's say Allvin has been doing his due diligence talking with Miller and Boeser...and it is apparent that Miller won't resign in VAN and Boeser wants something like his QO of $7.5m. Allvin might end up trading both of these guys away at the 2022 TDL for future pieces, mostly young prospects and picks.

 

So that leaves us with some big holes in our top 6, plenty of cap space, and maybe still work to do to improve our D (depending on trade returns).

 

If that happened, what would you like to see Allvin do with the roster after trading these two guys???

 

Bearing in mind we have probably hit the prime years of Demko and Horvat. And EP and QH may be a couple of years from hitting their prime.

 

Do you want us to sign some UFAs for longer term so that the team remains competitive enough to make the playoffs next season and even contend within 2 years?

 

Should we be taking cap dumps on along with draft picks to restock the cupboard?

 

Do you want us to focus on drafting and developing from within? And if so, when could we get back to the playoffs?

 

Do you want to see more pieces moved out a proper rebuild done on this team? 

 

Just interested to see where people sit on this one...

The biggest challenge is where they decide to open the contention window
There isn't really a clear and obvious time, b/c if we wait til Myers/Dickinson/Poolman/Pearson contract is up, we then owe raises to Pettersson and Horvat, and we're getting close to Demko's contract renewal (he'll be due for a 4m raise if he keeps playing like this).

If JR/PA want to contend in 2 years and have enough cap space for the renewals after, they're going to both:
1) take a huge swing by moving out quality players + our bad contracts
2) find great value free agents 

My guess is they move out Boeser, Myers, Poolman, Dickinson, and ofc dont resign Halak. If all that happens, that should give us 23-24m in cap space. Miller gets his 3m raise + Hogs probably gets at least 1-2m more. 

20m left to do the following:
- Pay a top pairing RD defender to play with Hughes (Schenn isnt sustainable)- 7m/year
- Pay a top four RD defender to play with OEL (someone more defensively responsible than Myers)- 4m/year (Oleksiak comparable)
- Bottom pairing defender to play with Rathbone (maybe re-sign Hamonic for 1.5m)
- Top 6 forward
- 3C that can kill penalties

Only reason I saw Boeser gets moved is they'll need to part with a quality asset if they want to ship out Myers, Poolman, Dickinson. 

[Coconuts]

Assuming we trade Miller and Boeser you're left with a top six group of Pettersson, Horvat, Garland, Pearson, Hoglander, and Podz. Pearson's a perfectly fine middle six tweener who contributes offense while being the defensive conscience of most lines he plays on. Pettersson, Horvat, and Garland are legit top six pieces. Can Podz and Hoglander step up? Dunno, but getting a look at Podz in a top six role wouldn't hurt, we'll want him there eventually anyway. 

 

I'd try and bring in Max Domi via UFA if he's not retained by Columbus, he'd give that group a fourth legit top six guy who leans more to being a playmaker, which we could use. After that I'm not sure, but my preference is to not hand out significant term to vets. A top six of Horvat, Pettersson, Domi, Pearson, Podz, and Hoglander is serviceable. But assuming we've moved Miller and Boeser we may have a top flight forward prospect we can slot in as well. If we keep Boeser just lump him in with the others I've mentioned. Boeser, Horvat, Domi, Garland, Podz, Pearson, and Hoglander ain't a bad group. Would I prefer more size in our top six? Yeah, but Horvat, Pearson, and Podz aren't exactly small and Hoglander players bigger than he is. You can also integrate more size into our bottom six. 

 

Not interested in cap dumps, drafting and holding on to picks should be a priority. Build from within, and actually give prospects a chance to push for spots instead of continuously bringing in vets to act as roadblocks. Yes, obviously prospects need to play their way onto the team but we've already seen what happens when we pick fringe vets over our own prospects, it resulted in our losing Gadjovich. 

 

I'd try to dump Dickinson and bringing in a legit 3C. Nick Paul out of Ottawa would be interesting. We need someone who can take some of the defensive load away from Horvat, and someone aside from Horvat who can effectively win faceoffs. If we can free up Horvat to play more offensively I think it'd help our offense as a whole. 

 

Ride out the Myers contract, see if you can move and improve upon Hamonic. If not, ride out Hamonic's deal and re-evaluate the following offseason. Our defense has some serious question marks and Myers and Hamonic are guys I'd be looking to improve upon. Maybe we move Poolman, maybe we don't. But if we're dumping players 1st and 2nd round picks should be off the table, 1st round picks especially. If it takes a 2nd to move someone out, maybe you take the hit. 

 

I'd see if we have internal options who could replace Motte to free up more cap. We've been complaining about our bottom six being overpaid for years, if Motte's looking for Dickinson money he should be moved out before the deadline. Plunk Lockwood or Jasek into his spot. Maybe Karlsson if he surprises at camp, though I think we'd be better off letting him stew. 

 

It's not going to be a single season turnaround, but I think we could compete for a playoff spot without Miller and Boeser depending on who we bring in. I'm perfectly fine with taking a step back in order to take multiple steps forward. I mean, we've been patient with Benning and it hasn't done much for us in the way of regular season success, we can afford to be patient with JR and Al. 

 

I don't see us contending within the next three years anyway, even if we make the playoffs. Teams don't typically jump from being mediocre right to contending, it usually takes teams multiple playoff losses before they break through. Happened to Washington, St. Louis, and Tampa in recent years. We're seeing it from Colorado in recent years too, they're a cream of the crop team who's experienced losing. It's extremely unlikely we jump right to being a conference final caliber team right away. 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Coconuts

[Crabcakes]

Listening to parts of a Serevelli interview on 650 today and my take away is that there's a good chance that next to nothing is done at the trade deadline.  Maybe Motte gets moved because they won't want to lose him to free agency.  He's the only UFA with any value.

 

The heavy lifting will be done in the off season.  And even then, Serevelli suggests that the Canucks are in a high leverage situation with their big assets because they win if they keep them and given that, there's no pressure to move them and they don't have to unless they get a great offer.

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

IF we sign UFAs I think it shouldn't be for term (unless there's a unicorn RHD who can help with our problems -- since our top necessity roles are already filled (top C, top D, top G, couple of pricey forwards and D) we shouldn't spend too much, otherwise we might get "elite depth" problems e.g. getting some Roussel/ Myers type who's really overpaid for the role but we do so because we're desperate and because of market inflation).  We should sign for hungry younger guys who are eager to prove themselves, not more pricey vets.  Optimally no signings besides a defensive 3rd C.

I don't see how we're in a position to take on cap dumps; even if we traded Miller and Boeser, the returns we hope to get will at least cost a couple million, so we don't really have that much to play around with, so unless there's a "Marc Staal to Detroit for 1 year" dump which actually proves serviceable, I say we shouldn't take it.

Developing internally definitely needs to be a big part of the game plan -- keep Podkolzin in the top-6, probably Hoglander too, and retain Martin for a couple years for cheap.  Beyond that, play and recoup value for Hamonic/ Poolman/ Dickinson, trade Motte and Halak. 

 

Good thoughts. Regarding cap space, if we moved Miller and Boeser we would have over $20m in cap space next season. And if we're NOT signing any big names then we could have plenty of cap space that could be 'weaponised'...e.g. taking on 1 year of Hornqvist, FLA will be desperate to shed his $5.3m contract and he has a m-NTC. This could be an example of a lucrative short term cap dump that is actually a serviceable player.

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'd rather not trade either, qualify Boeser and make a big decision on Miller at next year's TDL. If we're in a playoff spot, keep Miller and hope he resigns (assuming we're much more of a winning team), use him for a playoff run at the least. If we miss this year's playoffs and still suck next year somehow (to be honest I doubt it the way we've played under Bruce) then absolutely, blow it up and start with Miller.

 

We're playing at 0.68 hockey under Bruce though, that'd be good for 5th in the league. You don't blow up a top-5 NHL team. Carolina aren't looking to trade their top line center, why should we? Even if we miss this year's playoffs I'd chalk it up to the deep hole Green left us (unless we start sucking again under Bruce) and see what the squad can do next year all together under a full off-season with Bruce and only then, decide Miller's fate. I doubt he'd want a move if we continue playing 0.65 hockey for the next 12 months though.

Yeah fair enough. I don't wanna lose either Miller or Boeser. I guess I am just really concerned about Miller walking to free agency for nothing. And if Allvin feels Miller isn't on board then I would hope that he would move him. Well noted that we still have another one and a bit seasons before we have to worry about that...

[khay]

I know this is not what you asked but I think we need to keep Miller if he wants to stay. I think we can stay competitive through the retool.

 

Regarding Miller's leadership, I used to think he's a poor leader and hated his pouting and lazy plays. My dislike for Miller reached a new high after the first Calgary game where he lost us the game in the OT.

 

After that game, Bruce said he will talk to JT about that play. Since then, Miller cleaned up his lazy plays and turnovers and he just goes to work and all he does is produce. I feel like Miller became a new player and a better leader.

 

I see him as a bona fide #1C now. As good as Petey has been lately, I think Petey playing #2C behind Miller is the right way to bring him along. So, if Miller wants to re-sign at a reasonable amount/term, we have to keep him. EP will surely take over as #1C in a few years and hopefully Miller will be a good #2C at that point.

 

Regarding Horvat, some people question his desire to win. I don't think there is any doubt about that: he wants to win. But expectations on him needs to change. By now, we know that he is a north-south player that scores goals off the rush, wins faceoffs, and can eat up minutes. But he is not an elite defensive center that can kill penalties and play in the most critical defensive situations. I'd say Petey already surpassed Bo in penalty killing and other defensive abilities just this season alone.

 

I think Bo is a #3C right now. If any team has Bo as #3C, then I'd say that team must have a championship caliber center depth. And that will be true of our team as EP pushes upwards. And if Bo is deployed with north-south wingers against slightly weaker competition, I think his line will score a lot of points.

 

Right now, our strength is down the middle. Miller is establishing himself as a 90 point centerman. EP is on a 56 point pace, but considering his recent scoring pace, he is more like a 60-70 point centerman. Bo is a 50-60 point centerman. Lammikko has morphed into an excellent forechecking 4th line center capable of 20+ points.

 

Except for a few weird games where Bruce had Miller with Horvat or Petey with Horvat or whatever, we've played very well because of the center depth.

 

Since Feb, our team has scored 36 goals 5-on-5, good for fourth in the league. Toronto scored 46 goals since Feb. But Toronto scored 46 over 15 games, we scored 36 over 12 games so GF/G is roughly the same at 3 goals per game.

 

In other words, our 5-on-5 offence has been the best in the league since Feb.  Given the center depth that we have, are we really surprised?

 

But, still there are holes in the lineup. One major problem is no RD in the prospect pipeline.

So, when Myers' contract runs out, we need to re-sign him or sign another player like him via UFA, which usually means overpayment and hence, no cap space to improve other positions.

 

A young and cost controlled RD to play alongside Hughes for years to come needs to be addressed during the 2 year retool window and it would go a long way in getting our first cup.

 

The difficult with RD problem is that it needs to be solved via trade because drafting and developing an RD takes a long time unless it's a top draft pick, like Ekblad. And as you mentioned, Demko and Horvat are in their prime and if we keep Miller, Miller will want to win. We can't wait 5 years to draft an RD and wait for him to develop.

 

Good news is that we have surpluses on RW and LD.

- RW: Boeser and Garland. Podz, and Hogs are LHS but they are also listed as RWs.

- Puck moving LD: OEL-Hughes-Rathbone. 

Hughes in untouchable. OEL's contract is not easy to trade and his defensive presence is needed on this team. That leaves Rathbone as the trade chip.

 

I see Podz as very close to being untouchable as I see him turning into a complete player and he serves to strengthen LW depth. I'd also like to keep Hogs since he's on an ELC and will only improve. That leaves Boeser and Garland as the trade options.

 

I hate the thought of trading Boeser but considering the fact that Boeser can just accept the QO of 7.5 mil, I think Boeser is the player to be traded as it creates most cap space to address other minor needs, e.g., north-south 3RW to play with Bo and a defensive 3LD.

 

I would also just ride out Dickinson's contract and deploy him as a defensive LW alongside EP or Horvat, unless there is a suitable trade partner willing to make a hockey trade.

 

 

 

 

 

[khay]

51 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Listening to parts of a Serevelli interview on 650 today and my take away is that there's a good chance that next to nothing is done at the trade deadline.  Maybe Motte gets moved because they won't want to lose him to free agency.  He's the only UFA with any value.

 

The heavy lifting will be done in the off season.  And even then, Serevelli suggests that the Canucks are in a high leverage situation with their big assets because they win if they keep them and given that, there's no pressure to move them and they don't have to unless they get a great offer.

This is what I think as well unless there is a massive overpayment at the TDL for one of our players.

 

My guess is we acquire help on defence if anything.

 

[HKSR]

Trading Miller and Boeser would leave massive holes in the Top 6. 

 

Unfortunately, UFA is a terrible way to fix that issue as you will:

1. Have to pay top dollar

2. Most UFAs will be at least 27 years old, most are 29 years or older

3. Will have to sign the UFA to long term deals

 

If we did go the UFA route, we'd have to find middle tier guys that could fill in as the youth on this roster push their way up.

 

We would also have to draft our way back.  That's the reality of it. 

 

So IF Miller and Boeser are traded, we NEED to bring back NHL ready guys on top of the prospects and picks.  We can't go all in on futures only.

[BigTramFan]

15 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

The biggest challenge is where they decide to open the contention window

Yeah agree this is the critical decision. Once it is decided, then that sets the pathway for what needs to get done.

 

15 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

20m left to do the following:
- Pay a top pairing RD defender to play with Hughes (Schenn isnt sustainable)- 7m/year
- Pay a top four RD defender to play with OEL (someone more defensively responsible than Myers)- 4m/year (Oleksiak comparable)

Looks all good and think your overall vision is quite realistic.

 

But in terms of details...where do we get these 2 top 4 RDs? Presumably not from the Boeser trade, because you mentioned we will need to use those assets to clear cap of Myers, Poolman & Dickinson. I guess that we would need to find them via UFA?

 

Ideally they will be 30 years old or younger to fit the window and must have potential to be a top 4 Dman right?

 

Here is the list of RD UFAs that fit that criteria (some are LH but can play RD):

 

UFA in 2022:

Ristolainen (27)

Zadorov (27)

Stecher (28)

Kukan (28)

Nutivaara (28)

Klingberg (29)

C Miller (29)

Gudbranson (30)

Manson (30)

 

UFA in 2023:

Zub (27)

Dumba (28)

Severson (28)

Weegar (29)

Mayfield (30)

 

My thoughts are for 2022 that Ristolainen/Gudbranson are not good enough defensively, Stecher is too small, Kukan/Nutivaara/Miller are probably just not good enough. Klingberg is reportedly looking for close to $9m. That leaves Manson and Zadorov as potential options. I'm not sure on whether Zad is that good defensively either, so maybe only Manson is a viable option...I think he could be signed for around $4.5-5m x 4 years.

 

For 2023 I think Severson and Zub are not good defensively. Dumba is too small. This leaves Weegar and Mayfield. Think FLA will find a way to resign Weegar as he is a big part of their team. Leaves just Mayfield as the main guy. Dunno what he would cost, has been on a cheap contract and probably looking to get paid. Maybe would sign for similar money to Manson 4.5-5m? As you say we could have total of $11m to pay our top 2 RD, so these guys would probably fit within that budget.

 

You mentioned we might resign Hamonic or Schenn to a cheap contract as 3RD. Maybe have some of our prospects knocking on the door for depth. So from start of 2023-24 our D corps is something like this:

 

Hughes Mayfield

OEL Manson

Rathbone Hamonic/Schenn

Burroughs Woo

 

What do you think?

[BigTramFan]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

Trading Miller and Boeser would leave massive holes in the Top 6. 

 

Unfortunately, UFA is a terrible way to fix that issue as you will:

1. Have to pay top dollar

2. Most UFAs will be at least 27 years old, most are 29 years or older

3. Will have to sign the UFA to long term deals

 

If we did go the UFA route, we'd have to find middle tier guys that could fill in as the youth on this roster push their way up.

 

We would also have to draft our way back.  That's the reality of it. 

 

So IF Miller and Boeser are traded, we NEED to bring back NHL ready guys on top of the prospects and picks.  We can't go all in on futures only.

Yeah that's a good point on UFAs. But remember Miller is going to be 30 years old when we look at resigning him and will be costing $8-9m. He will be after a long term deal. This is essentially the SAME as signing a UFA.

 

And for Boeser, he probably wouldn't even get $7.5m as a UFA, so he is essentially like a UFA in terms of what he might might cost to resign.

 

Just as an example, it might be worthwhile considering trading Miller for assets and signing a UFA like Trocheck? Probably get him for $7m x 6 years. This would be like as you said: "we NEED to bring back NHL ready guys on top of the prospects and picks"

 

So we get something like Schneider + 1st + ?? in return for Miller. Then instead of resigning Miller to $8.5m x 7 years and have his contract expiring in 2030 at age 37, we sign a player like Trocheck to $7m x 6 years and have his contract expiring in 2028 at age 35.

 

No question that Trocheck is step down from Miller, but he's a very capable 2C that plays in all situations. We retain our strength down the middle with EP, Trocheck, Horvat.

[Phil_314]

19 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Good thoughts. Regarding cap space, if we moved Miller and Boeser we would have over $20m in cap space next season. And if we're NOT signing any big names then we could have plenty of cap space that could be 'weaponised'...e.g. taking on 1 year of Hornqvist, FLA will be desperate to shed his $5.3m contract and he has a m-NTC. This could be an example of a lucrative short term cap dump that is actually a serviceable player.

That I'm fine with, hence why I said the thing about Marc Staal.  No dead cap trades though IMO (e.g. Roussel/ Beagle/ Loui coming here, like what we did offloading them to Arizona), since I would be of the mind that there are Motte/ Lammikko/ Highmore or better (e.g. Verhaeghe) "hungry" types available. 

[eeeeergh]

7 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yeah agree this is the critical decision. Once it is decided, then that sets the pathway for what needs to get done.

 

Looks all good and think your overall vision is quite realistic.

 

But in terms of details...where do we get these 2 top 4 RDs? Presumably not from the Boeser trade, because you mentioned we will need to use those assets to clear cap of Myers, Poolman & Dickinson. I guess that we would need to find them via UFA?

 

Ideally they will be 30 years old or younger to fit the window and must have potential to be a top 4 Dman right?

 

Here is the list of RD UFAs that fit that criteria (some are LH but can play RD):

 

UFA in 2022:

Ristolainen (27)

Zadorov (27)

Stecher (28)

Kukan (28)

Nutivaara (28)

Klingberg (29)

C Miller (29)

Gudbranson (30)

Manson (30)

 

UFA in 2023:

Zub (27)

Dumba (28)

Severson (28)

Weegar (29)

Mayfield (30)

 

My thoughts are for 2022 that Ristolainen/Gudbranson are not good enough defensively, Stecher is too small, Kukan/Nutivaara/Miller are probably just not good enough. Klingberg is reportedly looking for close to $9m. That leaves Manson and Zadorov as potential options. I'm not sure on whether Zad is that good defensively either, so maybe only Manson is a viable option...I think he could be signed for around $4.5-5m x 4 years.

 

For 2023 I think Severson and Zub are not good defensively. Dumba is too small. This leaves Weegar and Mayfield. Think FLA will find a way to resign Weegar as he is a big part of their team. Leaves just Mayfield as the main guy. Dunno what he would cost, has been on a cheap contract and probably looking to get paid. Maybe would sign for similar money to Manson 4.5-5m? As you say we could have total of $11m to pay our top 2 RD, so these guys would probably fit within that budget.

 

You mentioned we might resign Hamonic or Schenn to a cheap contract as 3RD. Maybe have some of our prospects knocking on the door for depth. So from start of 2023-24 our D corps is something like this:

 

Hughes Mayfield

OEL Manson

Rathbone Hamonic/Schenn

Burroughs Woo

 

What do you think?

All correct imo, only thing I'd say is Severson is probably the hidden gem - he's been way better defensively than most would expect, his analytics are mindblowingly good, considering he's had to be the #1 shutdown guy for while this season. He's also an excellent penalty killer. 

Totally agree re: gudbranson and zadorov, I think they look way better than they actually are b/c of Sutter's system and the support they get from their forwards. 

I'd like to see them be patient and pick up one of the RHD from free agency - I think you're right, Mayfield would be a great pickup in the defensive-defenseman role. I'd like to see them try for a trade for Severson, or Oleksiak - I like Oleksiak b/c he can play on the right or the left side, he's an absolute mountain, and pretty much as pure of a shutdown guy as it gets. To acquire either of those two, we'd likely have to give up a good prospect, a draft pick, and a roster player. We actually have 2  very good prospects outside of Rathbone right now - Linus Karlsson and Aidan McDonough- one of them + a high draft pick + a roster player. 

Hughes-Mayfield
OEL-Oleksiak/Severson
Rathbone-Hamonic
Burroughs, Woo, Hunt, etc. 

Very balanced defense core, and one thing I like about having a LHD that can play on the right like Oleksiak is it gives us more PK options. 

[IBatch]

On 3/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'd rather not trade either, qualify Boeser and make a big decision on Miller at next year's TDL. If we're in a playoff spot, keep Miller and hope he resigns (assuming we're much more of a winning team), use him for a playoff run at the least. If we miss this year's playoffs and still suck next year somehow (to be honest I doubt it the way we've played under Bruce) then absolutely, blow it up and start with Miller.

 

We're playing at 0.68 hockey under Bruce though, that'd be good for 5th in the league. You don't blow up a top-5 NHL team. Carolina aren't looking to trade their top line center, why should we? Even if we miss this year's playoffs I'd chalk it up to the deep hole Green left us (unless we start sucking again under Bruce) and see what the squad can do next year all together under a full off-season with Bruce and only then, decide Miller's fate. I doubt he'd want a move if we continue playing 0.65 hockey for the next 12 months though.

I'm also leaning towards this.   You don't penalize production, you reward it.    That said i'm 100% on board with trading both Miller and Brock if the return makes sense.    Both these guys would offer a first, a grade A prospect and a roster player coming back.   All three are keys.   The roster players would be to fill Miller and Brocks holes - the Grade A prospects to fill weak spots on the team that we already have or that are coming up.    And of course the picks are just extra lottery tickets for down the road. 

 

Edit:  There for sure is some way to keep the team marching forward AND adding for the future.     

Edited March 11, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:17 PM, HKSR said:

Trading Miller and Boeser would leave massive holes in the Top 6. 

 

Unfortunately, UFA is a terrible way to fix that issue as you will:

1. Have to pay top dollar

2. Most UFAs will be at least 27 years old, most are 29 years or older

3. Will have to sign the UFA to long term deals

 

If we did go the UFA route, we'd have to find middle tier guys that could fill in as the youth on this roster push their way up.

 

We would also have to draft our way back.  That's the reality of it. 

 

So IF Miller and Boeser are traded, we NEED to bring back NHL ready guys on top of the prospects and picks.  We can't go all in on futures only.

That is why when you see a hockey trade with guys like Brock and Miller - the immediate expectation back is a roster player (to fill that hole), drafted prospect(s) and or picks.    A month ago TO writers suggested Miller for Kerfoot (3rd line C for them, decent stats same contract done next year), their two best prospects (one a former 15th overall, the other a second rounder - both smallish forwards) and a first (which for them probably is about the same as a second rounder odds wise).     The roster player back for sure matters, it helps with the team make cap, and it helps our team still ice a team.   

[Chris12345]

I don't see them trading two big pieces at the trade deadline. They might move 1 big name, 1 dman, and 1 minor. Realistically they wait till the draft.

 

JR will absolutely have an integrated plan, something JB never had.