Time to face the reality

[Boudrias]

Just when you think the CDC will evolve and gain some perspective it descends into another navel gazing exercise. Going into the deadline I wanted a Miller or Boeaser trade. Peak value was the thought. Didn’t happen. I can only assume management didn’t get the offers they thought warranted. I’ll go with that. Wait until summer folks. 
 

I’ll be happy to see Abby make a deep Calder run. Young prospects in that group benefit from AHL playoffs that might vault one or two to the Canucks next year. Let the process sink in that what Van is building will take another 2-3 years. Excitement over a playoff run this year wasn’t close to reality. Canucks have to have a deeper and wider base of talent. IMHO neither Miller or Boeser will be part of that group that challenges but they will likely provide the pieces that do.

[AV.]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

This is pure hyperbole, and it's not even close to being true. Chia is closer to that status than Benning ever will be.

 

In order for Benning to actually classify as Milbury level, he would have to trade away players BEFORE they hit their prime with awful trades (i.e. Chara, Bertuzzi, Luongo). Even the worst Benning hater cannot come up with this.

McCann, Forsling, etc.  Not to mention, their draft records are near identical and win percentages also quite similar.

They're closer in legacy than you think, although, lumping Chiarelli in with them is totally fine.

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

Look, I never expected the team was gonna acquire pieces to help the playoff push or on the flip side sell off Boeser, Miller and Myers for top prospects... But at least do something to improve our compete level, size and grit!!  But based on the deals we did make, we are like just winging it rest of the season!! 

Out

Tyler Motte                   5' 10 192 lbs

Travis Hamonic            6'2    205 lbs

In

Travis Dermott             6'0    202 lbs

Brad Richardson          6'0   190lbs

 

Height averages at 6 feet, and       5lbs less in weight.

 

[AV.]

13 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

Look, I never expected the team was gonna acquire pieces to help the playoff push or on the flip side sell off Boeser, Miller and Myers for top prospects... But at least do something to improve our compete level, size and grit!!  But based on the deals we did make, we are like just winging it rest of the season!! 

The season has been finished since November/December.

What exactly would be the need to improve down the stretch?   To watch meaningless hockey in a more exciting or proud way?

[RakuRaku]

2 minutes ago, AV. said:

The season has been finished since November/December.

What exactly would be the need to improve down the stretch?   To watch meaningless hockey in a more exciting or proud way?

Really??? It was already hopeless since Nov and Dec?? You gotta be kidding me...  We still had a real shot had we won against Buffalo and Detroit!!  

[AV.]

5 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

Really??? It was already hopeless since Nov and Dec?? You gotta be kidding me...  We still had a real shot had we won against Buffalo and Detroit!!  

I'm sorry but that's incorrect.  The games in hand for Edmonton, Dallas, and Winnipeg would have meant that we were not in control of our playoff spot.

Besides, if our seasons hinged on beating Buffalo and Detroit (it didn't because things were finished a long time ago), were we really deserving of a playoff spot?

Edited March 22, 2022 by AV.

[Mo Grit]

5 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

........but based on the deals we did make, we are like just winging it rest of the season!! 

...well, the deadline passing has removed the last remaining excuse for recent losses - trade anxiety disorder.

Now, let's see our much-vaunted, top-heavy management prove their own worth.

[Goal:thecup]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Ok, I think Gillis was overhyped on here. But worst GM? Benning needed a cap person, and an assistant to stop him from spending on UFA's each summer. Because he painted himself into a corner trying to fill holes in the roster. Sadly Linden was the one that should have stayed, because he had the right idea. Building through the draft.

Linden peed me off right when he was hired; he went around to other teams asking what he should do; they are the Marchanding enemy, bet he got a lot of 'help'.

Then Linden hired a great Head of Scouting as a rookie GM; a lot of this lays at his feet.  (Also Jake; that was Linden wasn't it; although a lot of that fail was Jake's.)

Linden should not have been President or whatever the heck he was; was not qualified; did not serve the team well.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

The biggest reason we can’t make trades is because of our lack of depth and picks. If we had players in the pipeline we could trade a player like Miller. Another big problem is that we overvalued so many of our players that never lived up to the contracts they have and every team sees what we are seeing with those players. They are not that good and teams weren’t lining up to get them. So we are stuck with them for now. I think this new management based on the Hamonic deal is aware of that and is good enough to make deals. It is still going to be difficult in the summer but I think it’s going to show how good our management is when they can deal some of these contracts away and open up cap space. The Benning era really screwed this team over in terms of picks and depth. They just didn’t have a vision.

[Goal:thecup]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

The team is kind of scizo, first they play crap under Green then play bad ass under BB.

It’s not easy to evaluate then. 

Nobody said it was going to be easy; they wasted a couple months sifting through AGM candidates and doing nothing.

[thrago]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Too bad JB didn't have more in the pool left for these guys right?   They don't have anyone breathing down their necks and know their jobs are safe.   Bruce has done and exceptional job.   Fear based stuff used to work but not so much anymore.   Have to work against their egos to get things going unfortunately.  It's sure not that simple with a lot of bad cap still on this team - and one of the worst pools...shedding a little cap which Allvin did - does help with the carrot because someone is getting that cap added to their salary or someone else is coming in to help push the other guys.   The team can't just have someone send that message - they'd get laughed at back.    Guaranteed contracts.    Dickie cost Motte his job simple as that.    And that extra cap will be used likely to re-up guys or trade guys and overpay some other vet instead.    The only "message" my post had was it was ok to be upset about losing Motte.   Because well he was a guy who punched above his pay wasn't he?     Teams reward production and penalize non-production all the time - problem is a lot of third contracts players rest on their laurels.   And then they end up getting bought out or flogged for futures.    Bruce and Allvin aren't going into the dressing room and giving that message.   Maybe it would have worked for the baby boomers and the gen x's .... but not these guys. 

 

Edit:  The players themselves know they don't have to look behind their shoulder because some high pick is coming down the pipe - do they?

 

Edit:  Anyone else notice how productive Horvat had been with Miller getting all the love?  Internal competition matters more then any screaming and yelling and fear of being traded these days.   And nothing wrong with that - can say from personal experience on both sides (getting screamed at) - it's much more valuable to get your guys to respect you and have them willing to go through walls for you then any Keenan like BS.   That simply doesn't work anymore.   And it probably never should have either. 

Well I never said anything about yelling and screaming and if the players can't handle someone telling them that the players we keep will be the ones that prove on the ice that they want to be here, then quite honestly we don't need or want them on there team and they are in the wrong sport.  You make them sound like a bunch of wilting butterflies.  They can be told that they need to preform or go.  Man I really hope there not as weak as you make them out to be.

[DS4quality]

4 hours ago, J-23 said:

Too many people overvalue our guys and expect unrealistic returns. Some people really expected a 2nd for Motte LOL. The Motte trade was reality check and seems like most people can’t handle that. Appleton, Namestnikov, Vatrano, Brassard all traded at the same value as Motte.

Jarnkrok got 2 2nds, he's ok but I'd rather have Motte.

[Mo Grit]

13 minutes ago, AV. said:

The season has been finished since November/December.

What exactly would be the need to improve down the stretch?   To watch meaningless hockey in a more exciting or proud way?

Agreed AV, but Bruce gave us hope there for a while.

And, it won't be meaningless if he uses these remaining 'dead' games to see what we have down Abby.

There's a case to be made also for some wake-up stints in Abby for those who dodged the experience.

 

 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

This is pure hyperbole, and it's not even close to being true. Chia is closer to that status than Benning ever will be.

 

In order for Benning to actually classify as Milbury level, he would have to trade away players BEFORE they hit their prime with awful trades (i.e. Chara, Bertuzzi, Luongo). Even the worst Benning hater cannot come up with this.

So hyperbole isn’t something that can be said of some Gillis comments? 
 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, thrago said:

Well it's not that hard, really just go player by player and ask these questions.

 

1 what are this players strengths?

2 What are his weaknesses?

3 Is there room to grow?

4 Do the strengths outweigh the weaknesses?

5 Does this players contract add or subtract value from the team?

 

Pretty simple really

Yes, but three months is too short especially since BB got them into playoffmode. 
And a player like Boeser is an enigma for us on the outside.

Allvin has better info about injuries etc.

 

Motte had to go because he probably wanted more than we were willing to give before cap is better.

 

 

[Timråfan]

36 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Nobody said it was going to be easy; they wasted a couple months sifting through AGM candidates and doing nothing.

Yeah, probably taking a lot of afteroon tea parties also 

[thrago]

3 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Yes, but three months is too short especially since BB got them into playoffmode. 
And a player like Boeser is an enigma for us on the outside.

Allvin has better info about injuries etc.

 

Motte had to go because he probably wanted more than we were willing to give before cap is better.

 

 

3 months isn't to short of a time, if you want to trade for a player do you spend half a season scouting him before you do?  There is a book on every player in the NHL they just need to read it and interpret it (figurative book btw what I'm saying is if your in the business of hockey you have a descent knowledge of the players in the league).

[Timråfan]

2 minutes ago, thrago said:

3 months isn't to short of a time, if you want to trade for a player do you spend half a season scouting him before you do?  There is a book on every player in the NHL they just need to read it and interpret it (figurative book btw what I'm saying is if your in the business of hockey you have a descent knowledge of the players in the league).

They want to get rid of ten mill in cap that Benning wasted away.

come back after next TDL when they had more oppurtunities to do so.

Now they would have to give away prospects to get rid of players like Halek or Poolman.

Is that what you want to do?

Give away a second just to get rid?

[DrJockitch]

Not that hard to evaluate the team this year. 
‘Not good enough up front, not good enough on D and great in net. 
Forwards are the winning combination of small and not very fast with okay skill. 
One of the most expensive D’s in the league but probably top to bottom lower half to bottom quarter of the league quality wise. 
Demko, no concerns with starting netminder. 
Nothing in the minors of real significance except for a couple long shots and depth pieces. No blue chip prospects coming. 
Not hard to evaluate the team at all, a club built to scrape into the playoffs and save a bad GM’s job. 

[thrago]

12 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

They want to get rid of ten mill in cap that Benning wasted away.

come back after next TDL when they had more oppurtunities to do so.

Now they would have to give away prospects to get rid of players like Halek or Poolman.

Is that what you want to do?

Give away a second just to get rid?

Nope not at all, what I want them to do is reshuffle the deck.  We need to trade one of our big pieces in order to restock our hand so to speak.  They just missed the time when you get the most value and I don't want to see them waste the next which is the summer.  They didn't try to negotiate a contract with Motte until the weekend at the earliest and sounds like it was on Monday and they aren't in talks with Boeser about an extension.  These guys were to busy hoping to make a run at the playoffs that they didn't do what they needed to do, and got caught unprepared when the team crashed and burned.  Basing what you do with your hockey team on a weeks worth of games is a fools move and they just did it.