[Proposal] Alex Douglas Kerfoot for Jason Dickinson (w/ RS), a 2nd 2025, 4th 2024

[Ilya Mikheyev]

To Toronto: Jason Dickinson 15% retained, 2nd round pick 2025, 4th round pick 2024

 

To Vancouver: Alex Kerfoot

 

Why?

 

- cuz it's dog days of hockey i'm sry!

 

- Lots of rumours Toronto wants to move Alex Kerfoot (and Justin Holl) in their quest for cap breathing room to add depth, especially with the addition of Jarnkrok on a more team friendly deal

- This deal clears 1.2M for Toronto (Vancouver can fit it in once Ferland is LTIRed, and Dowling waived) - but it could really clear up to 2.315 as they can easily waive Dickie instantly for an AHL stint--either they get playoff depth from him or he's picked up and they get more cap, or a player like Gaudette (who is truly not NHL-level)

- The Leafs get some salary retention and a decent pick from the Canucks for taking on the 1 extra year of term

 

- Kerfoot's value is unclear - is he a pure cap dump Pacorietty style? The Athletic has suggest his value is for a slightly worse 2M dollar player, one Leafs blogger suggests a late 2nd rounder in 2023

 

- Kerfoot has a 10 team M-NTC - but there's a good chance he'd waive to come to Vancouver considering he grew up here, and played BCHL hockey in Coquitlam...and he did grow up a Canucks' fan

 

 

- He even almost signed here once despite Travis Green being at the meeting and not King Bruce "there it is" Boudreau:

 

 

- While Dickinson proved to be unable to handle center duties last year, Kerfoot is a pretty good centreman defensively (despite being very bad at faceoffs, even after a year with Manny Malhotra!! come on man! (not much hope he'll improve on faceoffs)). This will give the Canucks needed flexibility - either in moving Miller or playing all three of Petey, Miller and Bo in the top-6 as needed.

 

- Importantly re: PK. Allvin want all in on Ilya Mikheyev, assumedly partly because of the high-driving PK abilities Mikheyev has - not only being a great PKer but also putting pressure on the powerplay team at times. I'm fairly sure Kerfoot set up 50% or more of Ilya's PK goals last year, and they have surefire PK chemistry. By all signs, the Canucks want to ice a more high pressure PK than the one Travis Green's staff run - reuniting Kerfoot and Mikheyev on the 1st or 2nd unit would be a great move IMO. He doesn't have the insane SH CF% as Mikheyev  (31% - WTF), but shares similar short-handed posession stats to Tyler Motte and a considerable PK upgrade on someone like Juho Lammikko.

 

 

- While Kerfoot has always been responsible defensively, there was some fear that during the broken up COVID seasons he had lost some offensive touch - but last year he returned with a career high 51 points - basically with no powerplay time - he had 1 powerplay point and 3 shorthanded points. Last year, he was 6th on the high scoring Leafs in EVP and had more combined EV/SH points than any Canuck not named Miller - and this with slightly more dzone deployment than ozone.

 

 

 

 

- Kerfoot can play all forward positions, and with the Canucks likely to get creative to start the year, he will be nice asset that can fill in wherever. It definitely shifts some of the overload on the wings to the possibility of centre.

 

 

 

- Outside of Ilya Mikheyev, he's also a former teammate of Travis Dermott - so would have some familarity with the team, and already does with the city.

 

- If Kerfoot is a good fit, and can be re-signed at a 3.75-4.25 AAV over 4-5 years, he'll somewhat fix the C cap structure the Canucks currently have (not as well as a young C on an ELC, like Jesper Boqvist, but still an upgrade on the situation).

 

Miller - Petey - Mikheyev

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Boeser

Pearson - Kerfoot - Garland

Hoglander - Lazar/Lockwood - Podkolzin

Joshua

 

these wings are insane   - and I think another trade would come - such as the expected Miller trade, or maybe Pearson for an similar AAV defenseman (Zadorov?), but if not I guess the Canucks will just score 500 goals

Edited August 18, 2022 by Ilya Mikheyev

[deus.ex.makina]

Canadian 3C, PK, bounds with Mikheyev, GET RIDE OF DICKINSON… where do I sign ? 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

2 minutes ago, deus.ex.makina said:

Canadian 3C, PK, bounds with Mikheyev, GET RIDE OF DICKINSON… where do I sign ? 

we could start an open letter from CDC to Patrick Allvin, with love

[Dixon Ward]

If Allvin could pull this off, it would be great.  

 

This would make 1 of Garland, Pearson, Hoglander, all of whom I really like, much more expendable in a trade for RHD.

 

 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

30 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

If Allvin could pull this off, it would be great.  

 

This would make 1 of Garland, Pearson, Hoglander, all of whom I really like, much more expendable in a trade for RHD.

 

 

Agreed - or Miller since Kerf can play C. Really, it gives them a bit more positional flexibility and leverage in any deal.

[higgyfan]

Not sure why the Leafs are wanting to let go of Kerfoot.  He's been an adequate LW on the Taveras line; hence

his 51pts last season, which is a career high.

 

Here is an article comparing Kerfoot/Mikeyev value:

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-tough-choice-between-mikheyev-kerfoot/

 

"Kerfoot’s most common line-mates were Tavares and Nylander, while Mikheyev’s were David Kampf and Pierre Engvall. Even with those line-mates, Mikheyev’s Expected Goals (2.77) were higher than Kerfoot’s (2.51)."

 

His overall talent is a 3rd liner who will get 30-40pts a season.  Might be a decent placeholder while the team

evaluates Karlsson's viability as a C.

 

[IBatch]

I'm confused.  We are paying the second and 4th correct?  Kerfoot is the better player. 

 

Edit: Ok seems the OP is on point.  That's too much anyways.   Kerfoot was TO's media darling for Miller last TDL, plus their two best prospects and their first.

 

Its too much to pay for Kerfoot.   He's a UFA.     But get that you want to dump Dickie.   Kind of.   Why not just play Dickie and if he's not up to snuff put him on waivers.   Maybe if Kerfoot wasn't a UFA and had a couple extra years it would be a decent proposal.   Dickie isn't really hurting us or helping us.   Kind of just a depth wash.   Kerfoot is a meh player.  

Edited August 18, 2022 by IBatch

[Bure_Pavel]

Best thing for us is let Dickinson bounce back this year and get back some of his value before trading him. Not a fan of throwing away 2nd's as you can usually find gold there. 

 

There are usually projected first round talent that fall to the middle of the 2nd like Tristan Luneau, Aatu Raty, and Maxime Comtois in recent years.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[Angry Goose]

If the Canucks were to say move Miller, Kerfoot would be an excellent 3rd line C.

 

Although I think Dickinson will bounce back, Kerfoot is definitely the better player.  But it might be worth it to keep both to have some C depth in case of injury etc.  And with AK only having 1 year remaining I think hes the type of guy u play hardball with to acquire.  If TOR really needs cap room then offer a 2nd/3rd tier prospect.  Thats all I think you could possibly get at the TDL for him, maybe a 3rd round pick.  

[Phil_314]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

I'm confused.  We are paying the second and 4th correct?  Kerfoot is the better player. 

Edit: Ok seems the OP is on point.  That's too much anyways.   Kerfoot was TO's media darling for Miller last TDL, plus their two best prospects and their first.

 

Its too much to pay for Kerfoot.   He's a UFA.     But get that you want to dump Dickie.   Kind of.   Why not just play Dickie and if he's not up to snuff put him on waivers.   Maybe if Kerfoot wasn't a UFA and had a couple extra years it would be a decent proposal.   Dickie isn't really hurting us or helping us.   Kind of just a depth wash.   Kerfoot is a meh player.  

Agreed, esp. on not trading the 2nd (plus we don't NEED to trade Dickinson when his cost for waivers isn't that high).  
Not to hijack the proposal, but an alternate that I'd suggest would be Holl (pending UFA, RHD at $2 million) for Poolman (presuming he's on LTIR, he's $2.5 million of cap relief * 3 years).  Leafs have no use for Holl with Brodie/ Giordano/ Liljegren as top 3 RD, plus they need to sign Sandin; Holl scored 23 points in 69 games with 20 minutes played in regular season, and he's 6'4", 210 lb. defensively oriented.  I think this trade could be more mutually beneficial.  

[King Heffy]

I'd consider it without the retained salary.  Any kind of salary retention longer than 1 year should result in the entire management team being fired on the spot.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

22 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'd consider it without the retained salary.  Any kind of salary retention longer than 1 year should result in the entire management team being fired on the spot.

Hahahah . You would be a volatile NHL owner I'm sensing

[Ilya Mikheyev]

2 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Agreed, esp. on not trading the 2nd (plus we don't NEED to trade Dickinson when his cost for waivers isn't that high).  
Not to hijack the proposal, but an alternate that I'd suggest would be Holl (pending UFA, RHD at $2 million) for Poolman (presuming he's on LTIR, he's $2.5 million of cap relief * 3 years).  Leafs have no use for Holl with Brodie/ Giordano/ Liljegren as top 3 RD, plus they need to sign Sandin; Holl scored 23 points in 69 games with 20 minutes played in regular season, and he's 6'4", 210 lb. defensively oriented.  I think this trade could be more mutually beneficial.  

Was thinking about Holl as well, I think he's kind of underrated cuz Keefe so publicly called him out after scratching him. Sure, he's not really a top pairing guy, but his stats reflect decent depth - on a bottom pairing with Rathbone might be a good fit, plus he can PK pretty well.

[wildcam]

12 hours ago, Ilya Mikheyev said:

To Toronto: Jason Dickinson 15% retained, 2nd round pick 2025, 4th round pick 2024

 

To Vancouver: Alex Kerfoot

 

Why?

 

- cuz it's dog days of hockey i'm sry!

 

- Lots of rumours Toronto wants to move Alex Kerfoot (and Justin Holl) in their quest for cap breathing room to add depth, especially with the addition of Jarnkrok on a more team friendly deal

- This deal clears 1.2M for Toronto (Vancouver can fit it in once Ferland is LTIRed, and Dowling waived) - but it could really clear up to 2.315 as they can easily waive Dickie instantly for an AHL stint--either they get playoff depth from him or he's picked up and they get more cap, or a player like Gaudette (who is truly not NHL-level)

- The Leafs get some salary retention and a decent pick from the Canucks for taking on the 1 extra year of term

 

- Kerfoot's value is unclear - is he a pure cap dump Pacorietty style? The Athletic has suggest his value is for a slightly worse 2M dollar player, one Leafs blogger suggests a late 2nd rounder in 2023

 

- Kerfoot has a 10 team M-NTC - but there's a good chance he'd waive to come to Vancouver considering he grew up here, and played BCHL hockey in Coquitlam...and he did grow up a Canucks' fan

 

 

- He even almost signed here once despite Travis Green being at the meeting and not King Bruce "there it is" Boudreau:

 

 

- While Dickinson proved to be unable to handle center duties last year, Kerfoot is a pretty good centreman defensively (despite being very bad at faceoffs, even after a year with Manny Malhotra!! come on man! (not much hope he'll improve on faceoffs)). This will give the Canucks needed flexibility - either in moving Miller or playing all three of Petey, Miller and Bo in the top-6 as needed.

 

- Importantly re: PK. Allvin want all in on Ilya Mikheyev, assumedly partly because of the high-driving PK abilities Mikheyev has - not only being a great PKer but also putting pressure on the powerplay team at times. I'm fairly sure Kerfoot set up 50% or more of Ilya's PK goals last year, and they have surefire PK chemistry. By all signs, the Canucks want to ice a more high pressure PK than the one Travis Green's staff run - reuniting Kerfoot and Mikheyev on the 1st or 2nd unit would be a great move IMO. He doesn't have the insane SH CF% as Mikheyev  (31% - WTF), but shares similar short-handed posession stats to Tyler Motte and a considerable PK upgrade on someone like Juho Lammikko.

 

 

- While Kerfoot has always been responsible defensively, there was some fear that during the broken up COVID seasons he had lost some offensive touch - but last year he returned with a career high 51 points - basically with no powerplay time - he had 1 powerplay point and 3 shorthanded points. Last year, he was 6th on the high scoring Leafs in EVP and had more combined EV/SH points than any Canuck not named Miller - and this with slightly more dzone deployment than ozone.

 

 

 

 

- Kerfoot can play all forward positions, and with the Canucks likely to get creative to start the year, he will be nice asset that can fill in wherever. It definitely shifts some of the overload on the wings to the possibility of centre.

 

 

 

- Outside of Ilya Mikheyev, he's also a former teammate of Travis Dermott - so would have some familarity with the team, and already does with the city.

 

- If Kerfoot is a good fit, and can be re-signed at a 3.75-4.25 AAV over 4-5 years, he'll somewhat fix the C cap structure the Canucks currently have (not as well as a young C on an ELC, like Jesper Boqvist, but still an upgrade on the situation).

 

Miller - Petey - Mikheyev

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Boeser

Pearson - Kerfoot - Garland

Hoglander - Lazar/Lockwood - Podkolzin

Joshua

 

these wings are insane   - and I think another trade would come - such as the expected Miller trade, or maybe Pearson for an similar AAV defenseman (Zadorov?), but if not I guess the Canucks will just score 500 goals

I hope Canucks don't make a trade like this...Kerfoot 28, 5'10 - 3.5 millionX 1 yr? Big no we have enough small forwards already and giving up a 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder for a rental player Big No..

I honestly think Dicknson 6'2, 27 will have a bounce back season.. 

we need a RD man under 26 this is what we need most of all..

[The Lock]

I don't know what I think about this to be honest, not because I don't think Kerfoot would be helpful, but we seem to have a habit of trading for players, them not working for a year, trading them away, and then seeing those players with a bounce back year. Sure, you could make the argument that it's because they switched teams or something, but what if that's not the actual factor and they could have had that bounce back year with us instead?

 

So, in a way, I kind of want to see Dickenson for a little longer just to see if his mindset is different after having a down year. It's pretty common to happen afterall. 1 offseason could make all the difference for a brain reset and it doesn't necessarily have to be with a new team for that to happen.

 

Dickenson was legitimately a good player before he came here. Let's not forget that.

Edited August 19, 2022 by The Lock

[Bobby James]

I'm fine with keeping Dickinson to see if he has a better year. I don't need a ton of points from him, but excellent in his own end and hard forechecking seems like a reasonable request given his career so far. 

 

However, if we can work out a deal here with Toronto that involves us moving Dickinson (maybe no retention) and resigning Kerfoot then that could be interesting. Toronto mainly needs cap space and it will likely be Holl or Kerfoot going. I don't imagine they really want Dickinson, especially with the extra year, but they will still save around 1 million in cap and if they waive him an extra million on top of that. So that combined with a 2nd and maybe another late pick could end up being a deal that works for both teams. 

 

For Van though I'd only do it if Kerfoot was open to extending at a price we like (4 years at 3.75 million per?), he would be a good 3C for this team and allow us even more freedom to move JT.  Otherwise no point trading a 2nd round pick for a 1 year rental. 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:49 AM, The Lock said:

I don't know what I think about this to be honest, not because I don't think Kerfoot would be helpful, but we seem to have a habit of trading for players, them not working for a year, trading them away, and then seeing those players with a bounce back year. Sure, you could make the argument that it's because they switched teams or something, but what if that's not the actual factor and they could have had that bounce back year with us instead?

 

So, in a way, I kind of want to see Dickenson for a little longer just to see if his mindset is different after having a down year. It's pretty common to happen afterall. 1 offseason could make all the difference for a brain reset and it doesn't necessarily have to be with a new team for that to happen.

 

Dickenson was legitimately a good player before he came here. Let's not forget that.

 

On 8/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, Bobby James said:

I'm fine with keeping Dickinson to see if he has a better year. I don't need a ton of points from him, but excellent in his own end and hard forechecking seems like a reasonable request given his career so far. 

 

However, if we can work out a deal here with Toronto that involves us moving Dickinson (maybe no retention) and resigning Kerfoot then that could be interesting. Toronto mainly needs cap space and it will likely be Holl or Kerfoot going. I don't imagine they really want Dickinson, especially with the extra year, but they will still save around 1 million in cap and if they waive him an extra million on top of that. So that combined with a 2nd and maybe another late pick could end up being a deal that works for both teams. 

 

For Van though I'd only do it if Kerfoot was open to extending at a price we like (4 years at 3.75 million per?), he would be a good 3C for this team and allow us even more freedom to move JT.  Otherwise no point trading a 2nd round pick for a 1 year rental. 

I'm not against keeping Dickie and I also saw flashes which told me he could rebound - but it was at wing, and that's why this proposal makes sense to me. Dickie had almost no redeemable qualities at center - when he moved to left wing he showed glimpses of his pre-Vancouver self. But the Canucks are deep on the wing and could use another C, esp. as flexibility if Miller is not gonna re-sign. Dickie right now is looking like a 4th line LW on the Canucks, maybe a 13th forward or to start the year in Abby if the Canucks sign one more guy (as rumours linking them to Rodrigues suggest). Again, I'm not against it but I think moving the overload from wing to either C or RHD via a cap dump type trade like this might get the Canucks some decent value,, and if Dickinson's TOI is extremely limited it will lessen the chance of a rebound too - I see your guys' points tho and don't disagree overall.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Ilya Mikheyev

[Hairy Kneel]

Kerfoot , too Littlefoot

Send Dickie to Abby and save 1.2M. A 2nd rounder!! NO WAY.

WE'VE GIVEN AWAY TOO MANY 2ND ROUNDERS FOR SO LITTLE. 

Keep our draft picks.

We're covered at forward 

 

If anything get a RHD already!

[The Lock]

8 hours ago, Ilya Mikheyev said:

 

I'm not against keeping Dickie and I also saw flashes which told me he could rebound - but it was at wing, and that's why this proposal makes sense to me. Dickie had almost no redeemable qualities at center - when he moved to left wing he showed glimpses of his pre-Vancouver self. But the Canucks are deep on the wing and could use another C, esp. as flexibility if Miller is not gonna re-sign. Dickie right now is looking like a 4th line LW on the Canucks, maybe a 13th forward or to start the year in Abby if the Canucks sign one more guy (as rumours linking them to Rodrigues suggest). Again, I'm not against it but I think moving the overload from wing to either C or RHD via a cap dump type trade like this might get the Canucks some decent value,, and if Dickinson's TOI is extremely limited it will lessen the chance of a rebound too - I see your guys' points tho and don't disagree overall.

The thing is, let's ignore position for a moment, we'd be trading him after a single down season meaning we'd be trading him when his value is lower. I don't feel that's smart trading in general. That being said, at least we'd get something for him I guess? (unlike *cough* Tanev, Toffoli, etc)

 

But, overall... I'd like to see what his true game brings first if that happens to come out next year. You never know, he might actually have good center qualities that just need other parts of his game to come out to be able to show for it.

Edited August 21, 2022 by The Lock