[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

Rebuilds do not necessarily mean selling every asset. Sure they can look that way, but you can still hold key players and lose.

 

8 hours ago, DSVII said:

A rebuild doesn't have to be scorched earth. Those are the 10 year ones. 

 

Keep the young core (demko,hughes,petey) sell the rest and for two years reset and recoup picks/prospects. Sell at the deadline.

 

And hell yea I'm on board

 

4 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

This is the retool route. People get pissed when they hear that word & not 'rebuild', but that's what it is.

 

And I know people were mad about Rutherford's comments, but he was right.

 

(not criticizing you guys for this view just want to clarify, I'd tend to agree vs scorched earth)

Since we've nothing better to do but argue semantics at this point , I'm with Smash here. That's a retool. You're literally re-tooling around the key young core guys we already have in place. Which I'll go on record as being all for FWIW. Wish we'd started it with moving Miller out this summer.

 

"Deep" retool maybe. But it's a retool.

 

Again, I think this thread/poll is misleading/inaccurate.

 

But yeah, what DSV said....sell off anything that doesn't fit/isn't nailed down this and next year. Draft high, restock cupboards. Bring some cap/warm bodies back to fill out the roster. If done well, we should start to trend up year 3'ish, playoffs + beyond that. There's good pieces here to build around.

 

If THAT doesn't work for years 3-7'ish, THEN contemplate going full scale scorched earth.

[DSVII]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

Since we've nothing better to do but argue semantics at this point , I'm with Smash here. That's a retool. You're literally re-tooling around the key young core guys we already have in place. Which I'll go on record as being all for FWIW. Wish we'd started it with moving Miller out this summer.

 

"Deep" retool maybe. But it's a retool.

 

Again, I think this thread/poll is misleading/inaccurate.

 

But yeah, what DSV said....sell off anything that doesn't fit/isn't nailed down this and next year. Draft high, restock cupboards. Bring some cap/warm bodies back to fill out the roster. If done well, we should start to trend up year 3'ish, playoffs + beyond that. There's good pieces here to build around.

 

If THAT doesn't work for years 3-7'ish, THEN contemplate going full scale scorched earth.

Maybe a 'Bottom out' retool  haha

 

But yeah. Unless Petey/ Hughes doesn't want to go through 2-3 years of pain, we should still try and keep them.

[KirkSave]

I don't think we need a rebuild, tear it down to the studs kinda thing. I like our forward group and some F prospects in the pipeline like Klim and Karlson. I like the potential in Podz and Hogz.

 

I am a believer in the current core of Demko, Miller, Petey and Hughes...hopefully Bo. 

 

What we need is a better constructed D. Try and move out Boeser and Garland to acquire a top 4 d-man or even create cap space to go after one in free agency such as Severson, Dumba or Mayfield, who would be a huge upgrade on Poolman, Schenn, Burroughs, etc.If we can try and round out the D, I think we have a great foundation to build with already. If our D could look something below, I would be much more confident in our playoff aspirations long term (next 3-5 years).

 

Hughes Severson

OEL Roy

Rathbone Mayfield

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

@J.I.A.H.N

 

What about Bo 50% retained for Wahlstrom and a big defence prospect like Bolduc? 

 

Lou Lam is watching his team go down early and he needs something to stabilize that F group. 

The trouble is Jim, we are just spit balling.............none of us, truly know the values, GM's would place on different players.

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Maybe a 'Bottom out' retool  haha

 

But yeah. Unless Petey/ Hughes doesn't want to go through 2-3 years of pain, we should still try and keep them.

They're both under club control for now, so they don't have much choice. I also think they'd potentially stick around if we can show a clear plan, progress in actioning said plan, and trending up between now and then.

 

But we need to actually DO it.

[rekker]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

@J.I.A.H.N

 

What about Bo 50% retained for Wahlstrom and a big defence prospect like Bolduc? 

 

Lou Lam is watching his team go down early and he needs something to stabilize that F group. 

I was thinking of Lou and his team today. I bet he would take on JT and his contract. Not sure what we would get in return, but I see a fit. 

[JM_]

31 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

The trouble is Jim, we are just spit balling.............none of us, truly know the values, GM's would place on different players.

true but if YOU were GM would you do it?

[NHL97OneTimer]

Yes to the rebuild for sure.  I've seen players look lost out there (last year under Green), but this year's edition looks apathetic for the most part (and disorganized).  Too much perimeter play and not enough hunger.  I want to see some more "bite" and "truculence" again.  These star players aren't getting that for us at all.  Rebuild please.

[J.I.A.H.N]

47 minutes ago, JM_ said:

true but if YOU were GM would you do it?

Honestly, Jim

 

I would trade Bo, for Seth Jones with some retention.

I want to see what this core can do with some balanced positions

 

Just one player can make so much difference.

IMO, Jones does that!

 

If that does not work

Then yes, a scorched earth rebuild.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[NHL97OneTimer]

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/what-would-a-vancouver-canucks-rebuild-even-look-like/

 

Possibly all of the above on the list in the link if things keep up. Thing is, if you trade Bo, Boeser and Myers, you may as well trade EP unless the players returning are enough to turn this team around.

[Angry Goose]

My take is we get a re tool for the next few years AND THEN a rebuild!

 

Yay!

[van_ws]

52 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Yes to the rebuild for sure.  I've seen players look lost out there (last year under Green), but this year's edition looks apathetic for the most part (and disorganized).  Too much perimeter play and not enough hunger.  I want to see some more "bite" and "truculence" again.  These star players aren't getting that for us at all.  Rebuild please.

Feel the same way here. We are too easy to play against. Need pushback, bite and that competitive drive to win. I would like to see more players brought in that have these characteristics every game and hate to lose. Most of the current group seem too indifferent about losing and too much of a nice guy mentality.

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Honestly, Jim

 

I would trade Bo, for Seth Jones with some retention.

I want to see what this core can do with some balanced positions

 

Just one player can make so much difference.

IMO, Jones does that!

 

If that does not work

Then yes, a scorched earth rebuild.

 

 

huh, thats interesting. I wonder what we'd have to add to make that work? would you be OK with burning another 1st?

[NHL97OneTimer]

6 minutes ago, van_ws said:

Feel the same way here. We are too easy to play against. Need pushback, bite and that competitive drive to win. I would like to see more players brought in that have these characteristics every game and hate to lose. Most of the current group seem too indifferent about losing and too much of a nice guy mentality.

We all want a Stanley Cup, but short of that I'm actually fine seeing a Canucks team that entertains, shows up with shovels and boots and gives the fans a show of what hard work and athleticism is. A team full of average players committed to each other and playing in unison is fantastic also.  I can watch 3-2 losses if they earn my respect. I'm perhaps shifting my connection with the NHL where I'm simply wanting to be entertained  by my home team more than worrying about if they'll make the playoffs.  The bar isn't lower.  Winning feels good.  But winning points because your goalie stood on his head while being shelled game after game doesn't feel great.

[billabong]

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/32-thoughts-the-podcast/id1332150124 

 

21:50

 

If Friedman was in charge, he would tank for Bedard

[MaxVerstappen33]

3 hours ago, KirkSave said:

I don't think we need a rebuild, tear it down to the studs kinda thing. I like our forward group and some F prospects in the pipeline like Klim and Karlson. I like the potential in Podz and Hogz.

 

 

Someone on Twitter says we are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. If that is true, then a full tear down doesn't actually make sense on paper.

 

o #Canucks fans asking for a rebuild.. I remember Tony Gallagher demanding the Canucks sell off the twins and Kesler and go for a Chicago or Pittsburgh style rebuild. Then those players took off. The Canucks are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. Their day is coming.

 

I do remember those days when the Sedins looked like permanent 2nd line players. And Kesler was just a pest with hands of stone.

Edited October 26, 2022 by MaxVerstappen33

[MaxVerstappen33]

2023 is the 20th anniversary of the 2003 draft. And it is looking like a banger again. We should tank for one year. 

[Solinar]

The problem I have, is that we seem to have management teams that are always chasing what has worked in the past, and fans that are much the same.  We need vision, we need guts, and we need a tangible success rate in doing something that this team hasn't done in 52 effing years.  We need to be able to trade, draft, develop, and STICK to a freaking gameplan.  Throwing it back in the fans faces that we can't stomach a rebuild, or that we can't support the team?  Well, we're still here, after 10 years of pain during a 'retool', 52 years without a cup, and a bunch of those years just being a plain old garbage fire and basically a joke, come on, who's kidding who?

  The trick with this team is indeed, that it isn't at its core, a bad team, per se.  The problem is, that it is the result of an idiot, JB, recognizing individuals but not being able to get a team that can actually play together.  Knowing that you need role players, grit and 'intangibles' (btw, those effing intangibles don't count for me unless there is an actual benefit to them), but overpaying them to the point that you handcuff your team so you can't supplement your core people with the talent they need to improve has been a problem.  There is also holding on to an asset so long that you either double down on it as it is expiring in value, or you get rid of it too soon, and sell low.  

  Now, if we kept expectations realistic, and really wanted to work on a long term plan, we'd call off our stupid pursuit of the playoffs, focus on playing the best hockey we can with the players we have, throw money into drafting and development and try steal people from Nashville for 'defense' development, keep Ian Clark as happy as possible, and work on skill and development for our minor league forwards.  Then, you look at this team, identify whom you want to keep for 2 years, 5 years, 7 years, and look to build value of all, but most importantly, up the value of those you clearly have assigned the jettison button to.  Then you trade them, even if you have to retain salary.  We have 3 slots, just effing use them for Christ's sake.  Myers at 4 million might get you at least the trade and something...  You aren't going to fleece anyone at this point, because they have anchors for you instead of help.  Put your ego aside, and focus on the long term plan and eat it.  If you can't, you aren't the person for the job.  Then make sure you clearly communicate what you need to, and by god, actually show some savvy and show the results.

  Back to the main question at hand, Yes to a rebuild.  Sell everyone but Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko....but be willing to walk away from either of them if someone stupidly offers you a package that makes you say yes.  Everyone else is expendable to the goal of building a stronger and long lasting organization.  And you don't sell a first or 2nd anymore till you have a team that justifies the return and the loss of the pick.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Honestly, Jim

 

I would trade Bo, for Seth Jones with some retention.

I want to see what this core can do with some balanced positions

 

Just one player can make so much difference.

IMO, Jones does that!

 

If that does not work

Then yes, a scorched earth rebuild.

 

 

I thought we covered this months ago. Jones is overpriced, overrated, with a steadily declining D game and has wing-nut political beliefs that have no place in Vancouver. 

 

NO

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Someone on Twitter says we are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. If that is true, then a full tear down doesn't actually make sense on paper.

 

o #Canucks fans asking for a rebuild.. I remember Tony Gallagher demanding the Canucks sell off the twins and Kesler and go for a Chicago or Pittsburgh style rebuild. Then those players took off. The Canucks are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. Their day is coming.

 

I do remember those days when the Sedins looked like permanent 2nd line players. And Kesler was just a pest with hands of stone.

 

We shouldn't be getting rid of many/any "kids". 28+, big $ AAV...yup. Sell and build around those kids.