[Trade] Hurricanes trade Ethan Bear, Lane Pederson to Canucks for 2023 5th-round pick

[theo5789]

17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

True, but Aquilini would have to pay his full salary while Stillman is in the minors for a year.  So, the buyout would be cheaper for the owner plus it frees up a spot for a younger guy to play in Abby.  Don't think we want Stillman taking up a spot in Abby for a year.  If he can show he can play at the NHL level for the rest of this year, then you keep him for another year.  If not, the buyout is a no brainer if they want to bring in someone else to replace him in the lineup.

I imagine a buyout just means Stillman gets paid his contract anyway, just up front. The money we see is simply the cap implications. So doesn't cost Aquilini any differently how it's done.

[Elias Pettersson]

42 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I imagine a buyout just means Stillman gets paid his contract anyway, just up front. The money we see is simply the cap implications. So doesn't cost Aquilini any differently how it's done.

A buyout means that the NHL team can buyout the contract at a reduced rate than the original contract.  If a player is younger than 26 the player can be bought out for 1/3 of their original contract.  If the player is 26 or older then it's 2/3's of the original contract.  In the case of Stillman he can be bought out for 1/3, so $450,000 in total money would be owed to the player which would be spread out over a 2 year cap hit and the Canucks would save $900,000.

 

Five things you need to know about NHL buyouts - The Hockey News

 

In a regular buyout, a team can terminate the contract of a player, but it doesn't escape salary cap charges. If the player is younger than 26 years old at the time of the buyout, they will receive one-third of the remaining value of the contract. If the player is 26 or older at the time of they buyout, they will receive two-thirds the original value of the deal. The cap hit charged to the team after the buyout will be spread out over a period of twice the remaining the length of the contract.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[Alflives]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

A buyout means that the NHL team can buyout the contract at a reduced rate than the original contract.  If a player is 26 or younger than the player can be bought out for 1/3 of their original contract.  If the player is over 26 then it's 2/3's of the original contract.  In the case of Stillman he can be bought out for 1/3, so $450,000 in total money would be owed to the player which would be spread out over a 2 year cap hit and the Canucks would save $950,000.

 

Five things you need to know about NHL buyouts - The Hockey News

 

In a regular buyout, a team can terminate the contract of a player, but it doesn't escape salary cap charges. If the player is younger than 26 years old at the time of the buyout, they will receive one-third of the remaining value of the contract. If the player is 26 or older at the time of they buyout, they will receive two-thirds the original value of the deal. The cap hit charged to the team after the buyout will be spread out over a period of twice the remaining the length of the contract.

Stillman gets more than Schenn.  Crazy.  Buy him out.  

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

Pederson alone was traded for a 4th round pick before. Crazy that Carolina also retained salary. 

 

The Dickinson trade was annoying but its not like it was particularly bad value. Patrik Nemeth had 2 years / 2.5 per remaining and cost two second round picks to unload. Stillman, while he has kinda sucked, might have had some value as a young physical dman. 

 

 

Yeah, that is crazy value now when taking into consideration all of this. There's no question that this management has a better track record in terms of 'winning' trades, with this short of time period.

 

Well, the Dickinson trade was not good when considering that it took a 3rd to acquire, which wasn't a bad price. That being said, the 2nd round pick is for next year, and not this year.

 

Stillman is a tire fire, but you're right, he's really physical, which is nice to see. With better coaching, maybe he has a chance to turn a corner.

[SilentSam]

On 12/23/2022 at 2:49 PM, Alflives said:

Stillman gets more than Schenn.  Crazy.  Buy him out.  

Let’s not forget Stillman is only 24,.  If we’re making a trade at the deadline, he might give a team “rest depth” in the playoffs..  could be the difference of solidifying any deal, and moves him off our books for his 1.3 m for 1 more season.

[PhillipBlunt]

Why is Stillman stillhere?

[coryberg]

7 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why is Stillman stillhere?

Because Dermott and Poolman are stillout.

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 hours ago, coryberg said:

Because Dermott and Poolman are stillout.

& we can all Still-drink?!

 

Take pleasure in seeing these two play at their recent level. Imagine one of them fetched a much higher pick(at TDL) & the other produced eye-popping numbers right through this season(& many more!)..you wonder at what point the Canes would be spinnin' into a tizzy?

 

IF he can hang-in next to AK & EP(The Great!)..LP could possibly pull off a Burrows here.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

11 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why is Stillman stillhere?

Invincible 

[JeremyCuddles]

13 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why is Stillman stillhere?

Gotta keep that tank rolling, and maybe keeping him on the ice allows us a chance at shopping him off for a 4th rounder or something at the deadline.

[canucklehead44]

On 12/23/2022 at 6:35 PM, Dazzle said:

Yeah, that is crazy value now when taking into consideration all of this. There's no question that this management has a better track record in terms of 'winning' trades, with this short of time period.

 

Well, the Dickinson trade was not good when considering that it took a 3rd to acquire, which wasn't a bad price. That being said, the 2nd round pick is for next year, and not this year.

 

Stillman is a tire fire, but you're right, he's really physical, which is nice to see. With better coaching, maybe he has a chance to turn a corner.

Dickinson was awful last year and had two years remaining. Acquiring him for a 3rd was a Benning blunder. 

You almost have to look at the two trades as one, because you can't make the Bear trade without the Dickinson Trade:

Dickinson
2nd
5th

for

Bear (25% retained)
Stillman 
Pederson 

All of a sudden that trade looks pretty good! We dumped a guy who didn't even make the team earning 2.65 for two more years for a second pairing RHD (which is HARD to find) earning $1.6, a young depth dman, and Pederson who lit it up in Abby and has 3 points in 5 games so far. Huge win overall. Even when you take Dickinson cap dump out of the equation, a 2nd for Bear with 25% retained and a 5th for Stillman and Pederson are solid trades. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by canucklehead44

[SilentSam]

I think Stlman will be used in any upcoming trades,   D depth to someone who needs it durring playoffs is necessary.

[Ted Lasso]

4 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I think Stlman will be used in any upcoming trades,   D depth to someone who needs it durring playoffs is necessary.

Yep - could see that.  We’re starting to get healthy and something’s gotta give

[Alflives]

4 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I think Stlman will be used in any upcoming trades,   D depth to someone who needs it durring playoffs is necessary.

We’re going t make the playoffs.  So let’s keep him!  

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

Dickinson was awful last year and had two years remaining. Acquiring him for a 3rd was a Benning blunder. 

You almost have to look at the two trades as one, because you can't make the Bear trade without the Dickinson Trade:

Dickinson
2nd
5th

for

Bear (25% retained)
Stillman 
Pederson 

All of a sudden that trade looks pretty good! We dumped a guy who didn't even make the team earning 2.65 for two more years for a second pairing RHD (which is HARD to find) earning $1.6, a young depth dman, and Pederson who lit it up in Abby and has 3 points in 5 games so far. Huge win overall. Even when you take Dickinson cap dump out of the equation, a 2nd for Bear with 25% retained and a 5th for Stillman and Pederson are solid trades. 

It wasn't a bad trade at the time. This is like the Schmidt trade. Both trades didn't work out in hindsight, but it wasn't an overpayment to trade.

 

I have no idea why Dickinson didn't mesh.

[canucklehead44]

12 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It wasn't a bad trade at the time. This is like the Schmidt trade. Both trades didn't work out in hindsight, but it wasn't an overpayment to trade.

 

I have no idea why Dickinson didn't mesh.

It wasn't a bad trade at the time, but saying the second trade was bad when we paid a 3rd to acquire him wasn't really on this management group. They did not properly evaluate the player plus he had an injury. 

The current management group has done a phenomenal job finding players who have fit well - Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Joshua, Bear, Dermott (based on last year) - and acquired them for very little in assets and cap. Heck even Lane Pederson was an awesome add-on. 

Our defence has been poor but I think a lot of of our woes fall on Thatcher Demko. Even adjusted for our bad defense he has been one of the worst goaltenders in the league. For a guy that was supposed to be a core franchise goaltender that is not acceptable. 

Delia and Martin are AHL calibre goalies. Martin came into this season with 9 NHL games at 27 years old. He had only 1 season with over 40 games played in the AHL and two seasons with a save percentage above .910 - essentially he was a 1B career AHL goaltender. And yet, he and Delia have a combined 13-5-1 record. I have a hard time believing if the same Demko from last year showed up he couldn't have gone .500 so far this year. With Demko putting up a .500 record we would be 3rd in the Pacific. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by canucklehead44

[Alflives]

12 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It wasn't a bad trade at the time. This is like the Schmidt trade. Both trades didn't work out in hindsight, but it wasn't an overpayment to trade.

 

I have no idea why Dickinson didn't mesh.

A third for Dickinson was fine.  But giving up on Tanev (the ideal partner for a very young Hughes) to only bring in Schmidt, who cost a lot more on the cap, was older, and had more term, was a horrid move.  And all our key core guys knew it. 

[canucklehead44]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

A third for Dickinson was fine.  But giving up on Tanev (the ideal partner for a very young Hughes) to only bring in Schmidt, who cost a lot more on the cap, was older, and had more term, was a horrid move.  And all our key core guys knew it. 

When the team finally came together and we didn't re-sign Markstrom or Tanev it was a big question mark. We could have traded Demko for a top 4 dman. Perhaps we wouldn't have made the horrific OEL trade if that was the case. Benning put us in such a bad position cap wise, while emptying the cupboards in the process for a non-playoff team. Its not like a situation where we were at the end of a run either - this team was bad the entire time (the bubble playoff was fun but we would have likely missed the playoffs if Covid never happened)

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

When the team finally came together and we didn't re-sign Markstrom or Tanev it was a big question mark. We could have traded Demko for a top 4 dman. Perhaps we wouldn't have made the horrific OEL trade if that was the case. Benning put us in such a bad position cap wise, while emptying the cupboards in the process for a non-playoff team. Its not like a situation where we were at the end of a run either - this team was bad the entire time (the bubble playoff was fun but we would have likely missed the playoffs if Covid never happened)

Yup.  And new management is doing their best to fix the Benning Blunders.  It looks like Bear will be a good partner for Hughes.  He’s not Tanev, but he understands his role when playing with Quinn. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

When the team finally came together and we didn't re-sign Markstrom or Tanev it was a big question mark. We could have traded Demko for a top 4 dman. Perhaps we wouldn't have made the horrific OEL trade if that was the case. Benning put us in such a bad position cap wise, while emptying the cupboards in the process for a non-playoff team. Its not like a situation where we were at the end of a run either - this team was bad the entire time (the bubble playoff was fun but we would have likely missed the playoffs if Covid never happened)

We were never keeping Markstrom thanks to the ED. That's not a management issue, it was just circumstance. 

 

And when is the last time a goalie got traded for a top 4 D? That doesn't happen.

 

Tanev walking was probably our biggest loss. But even then, with his age, injuries etc I get why we didn't extend him... But then you need to replace him with a younger, healthier "Tanev" ON TOP of adding Schmidt. We STILL haven't replaced him (though could have added Marino this past summer...).