Is Management Really This Devious

[Ghostsof1915]

34 minutes ago, Honourable Hughes said:

1. Hire Tocchet

2. OEL request trade

3. We somehow trade OEL (lol)

4. Fire Tocchet after if that’s not who they actually want (lol)

The end justifies the means? 

[CanuckRookieFan]

Hey, here is a bit of journalism for you: 

 

Back about 10 games into the season JR went on record saying "the team is about where I expected them to be" - an astute fan should have caught on to something right there and then.

Clearly management had a very, very strong suspicion that the team wont be as competitive as the fans were sold/told - and you know what, this is something management not only anticipated but prepared for. This is why you arent seeing a lot of panic from the upper management and why there is a disconnect between fans expectations and the higher managment.

 

You just need to do a bit of critical thinking and research to look back through the statements by the management to derive the fact this current terrible stretch is not a surprise to them at all.

[Rush17]

This was a take i heard on the Steve Dangle podcast last night. A bit surprised you've come to the same conclusion a few hours later but hey let's roll with it lol.

 

The dangle pod version made insinuations it was to convince ownership that this shit isn't working. Basically keeping everything the same aside from a few adds or upgrades at forward. It was quite a fun take.

[rekker]

Way too much credit given to JR et all in this thread imho. I think JR may go down as one of the biggest clowns of a GM we've had yet. What has he really done well? The guy hasn't impressed me at all. The public bashing of BB is childish. He may be on the verge of trading Bo all while keeping Brock and Garland? Really? To me, JR is putting on the make-up and on his way to clown status. 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, rekker said:

Way too much credit given to JR et all in this thread imho. I think JR may go down as one of the biggest clowns of a GM we've had yet. What has he really done well? The guy hasn't impressed me at all. The public bashing of BB is childish. He may be on the verge of trading Bo all while keeping Brock and Garland? Really? To me, JR is putting on the make-up and on his way to clown status. 

If we trade Bo (and Miller) before those other guys, it actually makes complete sense in regards to a "re-thingy".

 

Those guys have actual trade value and will return actual assets. Boeser doesn't. Garland's is "meh" to "ok".

 

Move out those guys and suddenly Boeser (and possibly Garland) is back on PP1 and maybe ups his value over the next year/ticks another year of risk off his deal. You move him THEN.

 

Same goes for Myers and Pearson. As much as CDC would love to move both, they likely COST us assets to move now. Next TDL they have actual value as rentals.

 

Long and short... If we're doing a "re-something", we'll be moving out good players, and likely before the guys everyone wants to move. You need to let those guys try to rebuild value and/or tick off time on their deals.

 

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

If we trade Bo (and Miller) before those other guys, it actually makes complete sense in regards to a "re-thingy".

 

Those guys have actual trade value and will return actual assets. Boeser doesn't. Garland's is "meh" to "ok".

 

Move out those guys and suddenly Boeser (and possibly Garland) is back on PP1 and maybe ups his value over the next year/ticks another year of risk off his deal. You move him THEN.

 

Same goes for Myers and Pearson. As much as CDC would love to move both, they likely COST us assets to move now. Next TDL they have actual value as rentals.

 

Long and short... If we're doing a "re-something", we'll be moving out good players, and likely before the guys everyone wants to move. You need to let those guys try to rebuild value and/or tick off time on their deals.

 

Good points and food for thought. I need to chew on this some more because I can't get over the hole Bo would leave in this lineup if gone. To me, full rebuild if Bo goes.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

Good points and food for thought. I need to chew on this some more because I can't get over the hole Bo would leave in this lineup if gone. To me, full rebuild if Bo goes.

It's certainly going to be a rough go the rest of the year if we lose him. He does a LOT for this team. I still say I'd keep him if we can...but he's earned the right to go play for a winner too. Wouldn't blame him one bit if he's done here.

 

But say we get Morrow, Drury and a 1st from CAR (or similar elsewhere) for him and finish bottom 5 and land a Bedard, Fantilli, Yager etc. We could do a lot worse than Pettersson, Top 5 guy and Drury as our future top 9 C depth.

[rekker]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

It's certainly going to be a rough go the rest of the year if we lose him. He does a LOT for this team. I still say I'd keep him if we can...but he's earned the right to go play for a winner too. Wouldn't blame him one bit if he's done here.

 

But say we get Morrow, Drury and a 1st from CAR (or similar elsewhere) for him and finish bottom 5 and land a Bedard, Fantilli, Yager etc. We could do a lot worse than Pettersson, Top 5 guy and Drury as our future top 9 C depth.

Definitely agree on that. Bo has done his time here. His decision, and I don't blame him one bit if he wants out. And if he goes, go win a cup Captain. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

Definitely agree on that. Bo has done his time here. His decision, and I don't blame him one bit if he wants out. And if he goes, go win a cup Captain. 

Love Bo, but once he’s gone I hope he loses.  Hate all the other teams, so it will depend on where he ends up.  If he’s a 

Leaf the he MUST BE A LISER. 

[EddieVedder]

9 hours ago, JayDangles said:

I've been wondering for a while now if Management (JR, Alvin and the Chipmunks) planned to be this bad intentionally and are using Bruce as the scapegoat. "We need more structure. We didn't know he had another year. We had a bad training camp".

 

I know the team was marketing this year as "Unfinished Business" which implied that the team was on the "up and up". But in actuality management did nothing to improve the team defense. Something they specifically said they would make a priority.

They also signed some lofty contracts which further handcuffed them. I feel their lack of efforts behind the scenes is playing the biggest role in the teams horrible play.

Are they really that devious that they planned to secretly tank the team while at the same time making everyone believe that if we did fall off a proverbial cliff, it wouldn't be their fault?

I mean if they had come out and said rebuild then some fans would hate them, some would say finally and give full support but either way they would be on the hotseat. 

 

I know no one could have predicted Demko's poor numbers, and some early injuries etc, but I can't help but feel this management might be so bad that they are actually good. Could it be that way by design?

 

Theyre not smart enough to play that type of 3d chess.

[MaxVerstappen33]

8 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

If they were trying to sabotage the re-tool, they wouldn't have added AK or IM and they wouldn't have signed Miller for a huge term.  I think JR never liked BB's style.  BB came out and said that the problem with the previous coaching is that this team's strength is offense and not defence.....so trying to get them to play defence is just silly. They have to outscore to win.  JR of course didn't like this as he knew that Demko was applying the band-aid to cover up the problems. 

 

So who's at fault there?  Both.  JR needs to build the D while BB should be finding better balance.....let's admit it, the players have no structure and are playing as individuals.  Poorer rosters are playing more cohesively and winning.  

 

If JR is being smarter than he appears by proving this build and leadership for what it is, then he may trigger the rebuild that's badly needed (which requires FA approval).  But he's sure not endearing himself to many people along the way without taking responsibility himself.

You can't use rebuild and Jim Rutherford in the same sentence. He does not rebuild. He builds a roster in the offseason and plays it. Then starts over the following year. In other words , exactly what Jim Benning was doing here for 8 years. 

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

[Westcoasting]

4 hours ago, rekker said:

Way too much credit given to JR et all in this thread imho. I think JR may go down as one of the biggest clowns of a GM we've had yet. What has he really done well? The guy hasn't impressed me at all. The public bashing of BB is childish. He may be on the verge of trading Bo all while keeping Brock and Garland? Really? To me, JR is putting on the make-up and on his way to clown status. 

I know I’m in the minority but I don’t think they will trade Bo... or Miller, but everything else is on the table soon.

[rekker]

45 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

I know I’m in the minority but I don’t think they will trade Bo... or Miller, but everything else is on the table soon.

Hope your correct. 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

I know I’m in the minority but I don’t think they will trade Bo... or Miller, but everything else is on the table soon.

Well, we'll see soon enough, because I can't see management waiting until the TDL to move Bo. If they don't move him then, they risk losing him during the off-season for absolutely nothing, and that's worse, because now we lose a top six centre, and we have nothing to show for it either. 

 

My gut is telling me that management is waiting for Horvat to cool off, before beginning the negotiations. 

 

They're gambling, because what if he doesn't cool off?? LOL 

 

Management needs to rid of Garland, Brock, Myers, Pearson, etc. to make room for Bo. Then in the off-season, sign some key players here, and continue to build the team. Make them as competitive as possible for next season. 

 

We're taking losses on Brock for sure. Garland I think we can get something of value for him, but we should temper expectations with any returns. My confidence in this current management, I don't care how diverse they are, isn't high at the moment. The jury for me, is still out on Allvin, and Rutherford (don't care that he's won two cups, he hasn't won a cup here). 

[Provost]

Instead of looking for really complicated conspiracies, it is always good to look at the simplest and likeliest answer.

 

The most obvious answer is management made some bad decisions and aren’t good enough to fix it.

 

They keep saying contradictory things and underestimate how people actually pay attention in a Canadian market.

 

Heck they kept saying the defence is really good enough, but the structure is the problem… then turn around and start saying they have been trying to fix the defence and have been in on every D that moved during the summer (but missed out bedside of cap or other reasons)… entirely neglecting to mention they created those cap reasons by spending it all.

 

They also said it didn’t make sense to sign an older player like Miller as they needed to get younger, and would have to make some unemotional decisions in the summer… then they signed Miller anyways saying they were going to sign him all along.  They panicked when faced with the prospect of losing both Horvat and Miller so significantly raised their offer to Miller at the last minute to get a deal done.

[ShawnAntoski]

15 hours ago, JayDangles said:

I've been wondering for a while now if Management (JR, Alvin and the Chipmunks) planned to be this bad intentionally and are using Bruce as the scapegoat. "We need more structure. We didn't know he had another year. We had a bad training camp".

 

I know the team was marketing this year as "Unfinished Business" which implied that the team was on the "up and up". But in actuality management did nothing to improve the team defense. Something they specifically said they would make a priority.

They also signed some lofty contracts which further handcuffed them. I feel their lack of efforts behind the scenes is playing the biggest role in the teams horrible play.

Are they really that devious that they planned to secretly tank the team while at the same time making everyone believe that if we did fall off a proverbial cliff, it wouldn't be their fault?

I mean if they had come out and said rebuild then some fans would hate them, some would say finally and give full support but either way they would be on the hotseat. 

 

I know no one could have predicted Demko's poor numbers, and some early injuries etc, but I can't help but feel this management might be so bad that they are actually good. Could it be that way by design?

 

Outside of JR, the FO personnel were signed to two year deals and with one year left, it seems they are more interested on earning that contract vs doing what the team needs: a rebuild.  Illich gave Yzerman, a longterm deal, full autonomy and full support to rebuild from Holland and 3yrs after, Yzerman is looking to turn the page.

 

I dare the FO, to double down on Aquamans flawed plan cause the team is going no where and after Boudreau - they will be next, to be scapegoated.  The need to have a scapegoat, is just part of the process when mediocrity is the annual results.

[RU SERIOUS]

5 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

I know I’m in the minority but I don’t think they will trade Bo... or Miller, but everything else is on the table soon.

If I was a betting man I'd put $5 bucks that Bo is 100% on his way out.    I suspect if JR can see that this team is a broken record - doing the samething over and over - that It's the only way to rid the team of the country club/passive Swedish style finesse cream-puff culture this team has been burdened with for the past 20 years.  It starts at the top and unfortunately Bo was neutered by the Sedins and only got the "C" because there was absolutely no one else to hand it to at the time - and we all know that.    If JR intends to to turn this franchise around it has to start at the top with a change of leadership.   Bo's a swell fellow but his time is up on this team as captain!  We should hopefully get something descent in return for him.

Edited November 16, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[RU SERIOUS]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Instead of looking for really complicated conspiracies, it is always good to look at the simplest and likeliest answer.

 

The most obvious answer is management made some bad decisions and aren’t good enough to fix it.

 

They keep saying contradictory things and underestimate how people actually pay attention in a Canadian market.

 

Heck they kept saying the defence is really good enough, but the structure is the problem… then turn around and start saying they have been trying to fix the defence and have been in on every D that moved during the summer (but missed out bedside of cap or other reasons)… entirely neglecting to mention they created those cap reasons by spending it all.

 

They also said it didn’t make sense to sign an older player like Miller as they needed to get younger, and would have to make some unemotional decisions in the summer… then they signed Miller anyways saying they were going to sign him all along.  They panicked when faced with the prospect of losing both Horvat and Miller so significantly raised their offer to Miller at the last minute to get a deal done.

Good post and BTW Miller can still be dumped this year before his new contract kicks-in (next year).    Fingers crossed they find a way to get rid of him before it's too late and we're stuck with him until the 2030's when he's near 40 y.o.

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, Provost said:

Instead of looking for really complicated conspiracies, it is always good to look at the simplest and likeliest answer.

 

The most obvious answer is management made some bad decisions and aren’t good enough to fix it.

 

They keep saying contradictory things and underestimate how people actually pay attention in a Canadian market.

 

Heck they kept saying the defence is really good enough, but the structure is the problem… then turn around and start saying they have been trying to fix the defence and have been in on every D that moved during the summer (but missed out bedside of cap or other reasons)… entirely neglecting to mention they created those cap reasons by spending it all.

 

They also said it didn’t make sense to sign an older player like Miller as they needed to get younger, and would have to make some unemotional decisions in the summer… then they signed Miller anyways saying they were going to sign him all along.  They panicked when faced with the prospect of losing both Horvat and Miller so significantly raised their offer to Miller at the last minute to get a deal done.

It seems apathy is spreading among the fan base and ambivalence is a common trait of this FO cause they seem to be more concern about, a contract extension.   Aqauman and his plans