Its the D... Its always been the D. How is this so hard for GMs to understand?

[RWJC]

45 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I've got a feeling Allvin is currently negotiating a trade for Chychrun. I think after last night's game, the way JR stormed out, the pressure is on Allvin to make a move, to do something. Can only blame Boudreau for so much. The Canucks D is real bad.

 

I know the Canucks need an upgrade on D, big bodies that can skate, hit and clear the crease. If Chychrun is the guy they're targeting, I hope Allvin doesn't overpay too much. But the D needs to be fixed and that could cost. 

 

Hughes - Schenn

Chychrun - Myers

OEL - Bear

Dermott - Burroughs

 

I hope you're wrong because that will likely involve Podkozlin ++ going the other way.

Or Hoglander and two 1sts.

 

It's too late to be adding status players like Chychrun now anyway.

Best is to bring in young, future assets and picks. 

Make a realistic enough/wholesale change through this season that it renders the best pick possible at the draft.

If this is the year to be strategic regarding reshaping the franchise's future, then go balls out and quit riding Benning's coattails to cover for your own failures, mgmt.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by RWJC

[igorwasgreat]

17 hours ago, Devron said:

Same. Problem is we need 2 top 4 Dmen. How the hell are we going to pull that off 

Martin ?  We have market cornered on desperate, we will have to wait it out. Maybe tdl , the draft , or just hope for a team to be as desperate for forwards as we are for rhd.

[J-23]

17 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Under Martin 4 - 1 - 1

 

Under Demko 2 - 9 - 2

 

Same defense.  Better goaltending and the team is above .500.

 

Now are we a contender?  No.  But we are not this bad if Demko was  anything other than terrible.

 

If we had decent goaltending and were sitting above .500 the conversation would be we need to make a couple of moves to replace Myers and add another top 4 D and we would feel pretty good about things.

 

The way it is - with Demko so terrible - it makes the D look absolutely horrible and magnifies the problem 10 fold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Martin has a 3.49GAA and .898 save percentage. Team just scores more goals with him in net.

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, igorwasgreat said:

Martin ?  We have market cornered on desperate, we will have to wait it out. Maybe tdl , the draft , or just hope for a team to be as desperate for forwards as we are for rhd.

Yup.  As much as it sucks watching such a terrible team we need to wait to make moves unless it’s a good rebuilding one that comes up.  We should for sure get a top five pick at the 2023 draft.  We might get another first for Bo, if we trade him for futures before the TDL.  Hopefully our owner allows a rebuilding direction, so we can keep our high pick, and add more.

[R3aL]

3 hours ago, TheCammer said:

I agree with your perspective although I'm not 100% onboard with him pairing "very very well with Petey". I can agree with it looking promising. Like I said he's a nice to have.

 

I just feel the real focus of our summer was on solving that backend or at least moving it forward and they failed there. 

Really wild I thought they’ve been great together. Eye test and numbers wise.

 

 I agree with that they def failed. They did say it would be 2-3 years but ya the zero changes in the back end coming into the season was a huge fail

 

[fanfor42]

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

Martin has a 3.49GAA and .898 save percentage. Team just scores more goals with him in net.

Hilarious take when one guy has 9 out of 12 points and the other has 5 out of 24. Lol.  Cmon partner try a little harder than that.

 

 

[J-23]

5 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Hilarious take when one guy has 9 out of 12 points and the other has 5 out of 24. Lol.  Cmon partner try a little harder than that.

 

 

5-1 against the Pens

8-5 against the Ducks

6-4 against the Sens

5-4 against the Sabres

 

Not trying anything, just pointing out the facts. The team scores more goals with Martin in net.

 

His GAA and save percentage aren’t really that much better than Demko’s. Almost the same.

Demko - 3.87 GAA and .883%

Martin - 3.49 GAA and .898%

[Junkyard Dog]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Hilarious take when one guy has 9 out of 12 points and the other has 5 out of 24. Lol.  Cmon partner try a little harder than that.

 

 

 

Just now, J-23 said:

5-1 against the Pens

8-5 against the Ducks

6-4 against the Sens

5-4 against the Sabres

 

Not trying anything, just pointing out the facts. The team scores more goals with Martin in net.

 

His GAA and save percentage aren’t really that much better than Demko’s. Almost the same.

Demko - 3.87 GAA and .883%

Martin - 3.49 GAA and .898%

Not to take away from how bad Demko has been but Martin has definitely had it easier. He's had a backups schedule facing weaker competition. 

 

All of his wins are against bottom teams and a slumping aging injured Pens team that were on pace to lose 7 in a row(we were loss 3 of 7 and they got destroyed in the first two losses). Canucks were able to play better against that sort of competition in comparison to some of the top competition they've faced with Demko.

 

I reckon Martin will likely get lit up vs a top team since he's yet to face anyone of high calibre, has given up a lot of goals vs weaker competition and also due to how poorly the Canucks play in front of their goalies vs good teams. No matter who we have in net they'll be under siege for most of the game. It isn't a good environment for any goalie atm. 

[hammertime]

It's almost like when you're building/re building a team. You need to start with D then G then C in that order. Then you add guys like Lekerimaki once you have the foundation in place. 

[Law of Goalies]

19 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Under Martin 4 - 1 - 1

 

Under Demko 2 - 9 - 2

 

Same defense.  Better goaltending and the team is above .500.

 

Now are we a contender?  No.  But we are not this bad if Demko was  anything other than terrible.

 

If we had decent goaltending and were sitting above .500 the conversation would be we need to make a couple of moves to replace Myers and add another top 4 D and we would feel pretty good about things.

 

The way it is - with Demko so terrible - it makes the D look absolutely horrible and magnifies the problem 10 fold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL..wow...this post. I love how this poster removes the more important stat of the goalies (e.g. GAA and Save %)

[fanfor42]

1 minute ago, Law of Goalies said:

LOL..wow...this post. I love how this poster removes the more important stat of the goalies (e.g. GAA and Save %)

Martin has a better GAA and SV% than Demko - no need to quote it just a fact.  Stop it.

 

 

[fanfor42]

People need to wake up and realize that Demko is in trouble as a starting goalie in the league.  Terrible numbers terrible results and no end in sight after last night. 

He is not turning it around and he is costing the team wins, he will cost the coach his job and he will cost teammates to be traded before its over.

 

 

[Law of Goalies]

6 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Martin has a better GAA and SV% than Demko - no need to quote it just a fact.  Stop it.

 

 

Barely..but you are saying like he is the saviour...Come on man...please stop and actually watch the games. I never knew winning 8-6 is saying you have an excellent goalie?

[iceman64]

20 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Over the past 12 years we've see a team which was one of the best in the league when it came to defensemen, gradually lose that quality.

 

One after the other... the GM's of this team have prioritized offense, even focused their efforts on 3rd or 4th liners... and paid barely any attention to the glaring deficiencies on the blue line.

 

Yes, there is Quinn Hughes as the exception which proves the rule... he is a fine young player, and has improved defensively hugely over the last two years, but his focus has always been offense...  and he can't do it all on his own.

 

To see Luke Schenn leading the team in +/- is really pathetic.  Not that Schenn isn't a real gamer, and someone who deserves a pat on the back... but he shouldn't be tops on the Canucks.

 

Over the summer the new GM and his staff had a chance to rectify the problem... but what did they do?  Spent $5 million to acquire Ilya Mikheyev and seemed to put all their energy in signing additional offensive talent in the form of Andrei Kuzmenko or 3rd liners like Curtis Lazar.

 

Meanwhile free agent D like 6' 3" 232 lb Ben Chiarot and defensively reliable, 6' 2"  206 lb multiple Stanley Cup winner Oli Maata get ignored and signed by Detroit.  Chiarot for the same price as Mikheyev, Maata for half that at 2.5 mil... $500,000 less than Lazar.

 

Last season Boston made a deal for unrestricted free agent Hampus Lindholm which saw the hugely talented Swede, 6th overall pick in 2012 at 6' 4'' 216 lb, now 28 and the peak of his abilities, move from Anaheim and sign for 6.5 mil a year.  Yes, the trade price was high, but if you want quality, you pay for it.  Where are the Canucks when it comes to deals like this?

Now part way into the season the Canucks are scrambling to pick up the left-overs... sure Ethan Bear is a decent D, but should he be playing on a top pairing?  More like a 6/7.

 

This team has some excellent offensive players... we really don't need to add additional... what the team needs are quality defensemen.

 

When are the GMs of this team going to apply their efforts to acquire a decent defense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buzz, it's not always that easy, from a fans point of view it is, just do this and just do that is a very fine balancing act to begin with let alone mitigating factors. 

 Such as so do most every other team out there, how does that affect us? First, by small market Canada, secondly our taxes, to start with and then because of other reasons like family elsewhere they want to stay where they are or close, same as with any other team and in the last 10 years starting the D was in better shape after the Boston run with the exception of Hamhuis, injured and never fully recovered I don't think. 

 So the D wasn't so bad back then though as we still had Salo, Tanev, and Edler, so that left one spot open in the top 4 and 3rd pairing is easier to fill but that brought the focus on forwards more with the odd exception. 

 That being said, there were tries that should have worked out but didn't, OJ and sadly LB who could have been patrolling the blue line to this day but no one has a crystal ball to tell what's going to happen.

 Do I fully disagree with you? Certainly not, in fact I was on about picking pretty much all D from last seasons draft and for another 2 upcoming drafts too so we load up and it's perfect timing, we don't lack scoring, we lack D so maybe JR, who I'm hating on right now for his f'n drama queen ways of handling this team which couldn't barrel out of the gates with a handful of new additions stepping in and having new guys like Podz etc still learning the ropes. 

 And fun fact, this team is nowhere near used to each other yet that's evident on the ice but we had decent flashes of brilliance last night against the leagues top last year and only lost by a goal instead of getting completely blown out. 

 That's what JR's not seeing and I don't know why, there other fans who see it, and know full well we're just "starting" to get wound up and semi sort of used to each other even though the lines have been mixed and matched a lot (searching for matches) that hasn't helped either. 

 And not including the first 10 games where we had a walking wounded D corps on top of that too. 

 Anyway, yes we could use upgrades but they won't do a lot more good then it is now unless the whole team plays a solid 60 mins of a complete 200ft game and not just rest it on the shoulders of the back end including Demko and Martin.

 

[J-23]

51 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Not to take away from how bad Demko has been but Martin has definitely had it easier. He's had a backups schedule facing weaker competition. 

 

All of his wins are against bottom teams and a slumping aging injured Pens team that were on pace to lose 7 in a row(we were loss 3 of 7 and they got destroyed in the first two losses). Canucks were able to play better against that sort of competition in comparison to some of the top competition they've faced with Demko.

 

I reckon Martin will likely get lit up vs a top team since he's yet to face anyone of high calibre, has given up a lot of goals vs weaker competition and also due to how poorly the Canucks play in front of their goalies vs good teams. No matter who we have in net they'll be under siege for most of the game. It isn't a good environment for any goalie atm. 

Well said. Had it easier and his GAA and Save % is almost identical to Demko’s.

 

Life of a Vancouver goaltender.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, RWJC said:

I hope you're wrong because that will likely involve Podkozlin ++ going the other way.

Or Hoglander and two 1sts.

 

It's too late to be adding status players like Chychrun now anyway.

Best is to bring in young, future assets and picks. 

Make a realistic enough/wholesale change through this season that it renders the best pick possible at the draft.

If this is the year to be strategic regarding reshaping the franchise's future, then go balls out and quit riding Benning's coattails to cover for your own failures, mgmt.

 

 

they need some stable defensive dmen.......Chycrun would be a terrible idea in Van right now

[EddieVedder]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

they need some stable defensive dmen.......Chycrun would be a terrible idea in Van right now

Chychrun is stable, just plays on a shit team.  

Would take chychrun anyday here but we cant give up any more pics of podz, so not happening

[stawns]

27 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Chychrun is stable, just plays on a shit team.  

Would take chychrun anyday here but we cant give up any more pics of podz, so not happening

He's a damn with elite potential, no doubt.  However, like all young players he can be erratic and inconsistent and has a long way to go defensively.  This dcorp needs guys who can lock down when they need to.

[Hairy Kneel]

We didn't add one D man this off season and didn'tevenseemtotry to. There were a few ufa available like Manson as an example. This off season there are a few nice ufa dmen, we should definitely be in on a few of them. 2 in NJ, Mayfield, Dumbarton,Maata. 

Re-signing Schenn and Burroughs. 

[lmm]

2 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

Barely..but you are saying like he is the saviour...Come on man...please stop and actually watch the games. I never knew winning 8-6 is saying you have an excellent goalie?

Hey 

John Garrett won a game 10-9 once and he's an excellent, 

er

colour man